Will they ever be caught?

[WPKenny]

I thought this could do with another thread since the other one's talking about rights and wrongs.

I was browsing the BBC webby and they've raised the issue of how hard it could be to find who's ultimately responsible for this attack.

How likely do you think it is? We have the benefit that all underground stations are covered with CCTV cameras and even a lot of buses these days. Not sure if the one that was blown up had a camera.

Do you think this will be enough since it's likely the attackers will have no criminal records or even public records?

If people are caught what should be their punishment under the current UK laws?

On a wider issue, what should be done about political extremists such as the hook-handed Hamza, for example, who inspire diabolical acts like the bombings?

Discuss.

 

[Tom]

If they're caught, they should be charged with murder, and if convicted the likelihood is they'll never be let out.

 

[Trem]

So as well as us(the tax payers) paying for the bombs we will have to keep them for the rest of their lives. Fuck that, bring back the death sentence.

Edited to say -

Apparently the bus one was a suicide bomber....so he won't be caught.

 

[maxi]

Someone will get it in the neck whatever happens. Someone HAS to, the media won't rest until they have. Either way it'll be a Victory For Justice and Truth. You can bet on it.

Yes the punishment should remain the same as the IRA members recieved.

I think the word 'Ever' is a pretty bad word to use too, as it only happened yesterday.

Funny thing, Captain Hook probably inspires as much hatred as George W Bush. What should be done about him?

If suspected of inciting racial hatred abu hmza should be dealt with in the same was as Nick Griffin et al.

 

[Chilly]

bollocks to executing them, just tortuer them for a few years, or maybe hunt down and murder their families and children and friends.

 

[maxi]

bollocks to executing them, just tortuer them for a few years, or maybe hunt down and murder their families and children and friends.

So you want to play by their rules? look at it like this: their hatred and actions are justifiable to them. just like yours are to you. in both cases I suspect its fucking lunacy and idiocy combined.

 

[Tom]

So you want to play by their rules? look at it like this: their hatred and actions are justifiable to them. just like yours are to you. in both cases I suspect its fucking lunacy and idiocy combined.

Spot on maxi, this is what people find so hard to understand.

I think paying for a person to be incarcerated for life, removing their freedom, not allowing them anything but the possibility of remorse for their actions, is a price worth paying.

 

[anattic]

Assuming these people are religious zealots, executing them achieves nothing but hastening their way to 'paradise' and making them martyrs to those left behind. If they're still alive (and I suspect they aren't - suicide bombing is a very efficient means of maximizing loss of life), then a very long, unhappy and bitter life would be seem a more fitting punishment.

And one other thing...

Funny thing, Captain Hook probably inspires as much hatred as George W Bush. What should be done about him?

There's a ticking crocodile with his name on it...

 

[Chilly]

Possibly, tom, but from what I see and hear the prison system is shit, it only serves as a punishment for about a month until you get settled in and its not so frightening, although for someone convicted of blowing up a bus in london I suspect, there may be some "internal discretionary disciplinary" measures taken, i.e. them getting beaten the shit out of at every opportunity. I suppose I'd be happy at that.

And yes, I do understand that the people that did this probably were convinced it was the right thing to do, and my comment was a bit ott - well, completely ott. But these people need to understand that blowing up busses won't change dick all, I'm sure some of the beliefs these guys had were accurate and the UK is in no way 100% innocent and pure.

It's hard to punish someone for something they belived was the right thing to do, because until you can convince them they were wrong (or not?) the punishment will be irrelevant and they will feel hard done by and injustice in being put down for what their leaders said was Allah's will (depending on who the guys were, but i'll bet a pint it was probably extremest muslims ).

What do to

Perhaps just drop the guy in the sea with a boat and a week's worth of supplies and film it to sell on channel 4 as Survivor EXTREME?

 

[old.Tohtori]

If you relly wnt to punish them, if they are al quaedae related and therefor muslims, you should forefeed them meat etc, nono things on the koran...but i'm not saying it's what you should do.

 

[tankgirl_ni]

its the bush administration who needs punished and tony blair needs a slap up the head for being a plonker! i did feel bad for him yesterday, but he needs to realise that hanging around with bush is a bad idea.

bush's daddy brought all this problem on with his "here take these guns mr afghanistan, have your jihad against the russians.. they are trying to knock your religion and you need to stand up for yourselves! dont let anyone beat down on your beliefs or your freedom!" then low and behold america starts slagging them.. next thing you know theyre doing exactly wot bush snr told em to do and sticking up for their beliefs but putting a jihad on america etc. now i'm not saying their beliefs are right or wrong. no one is right or wrong in this situation. no one wins in war. both sides end up with blood on their hands.

the rich people of this world keep themselves rich by making sure the peasants keep slaughtering each other and its f*cking disgusting.

 

[maxi]

woah woah. bush is a shit and no mistake, I am often the first person to point this out BUT there are and always WILL BE fucking lunatics with a beef. You simply cannot lay all the blame on the Blair/Bush. It's a dangerous road that achieves what the terrorists want. martyrdom. These 'muslisms' are not the same as the muslisms who are angered by the US! jeez.

 

[maxi]

man. this is rough. I know what Tankgirl is saying is pretty much right, but I'm letting my anger get in the way of my ideas. I'm just not sure it's time to start point the finger at the west, yet. I'm still dealing with whats happened.

 

[nath]

I suppose I'd be happy at that.

So justice is all about making you feel good after something bad has happened?

 

[tankgirl_ni]

hey maxi i didnt mean to get u annoyed all i'm saying is its people like u and me.. the regualr joe on the street thats taking the flack for stuff thats way above our heads and its not fair.

 

[Escape]

Will they ever be caught?

Sure, they'll catch some likely suspects and have them convicted.

Though the real culprits behind these acts will never be caught.

 

[nath]

Us average joe's vote these people in - perhaps it's time we take responsibility for that.

 

[JBP|]

I very much doubt they will catch the bomber(s).

I very much doubt that this will be last time london gets attacked.

The problem with these islamic fundamentalist fellows is that as soon as one blows himself to smithereens, there are another 20 behind him waiting for thier chance.

In my opinion the "War on terror" will never end, simply because there will allways be someone who is willing to blow themselves (and as many others as possible) up to try and prove a point.

 

[Bodhi]

its the bush administration who needs punished and tony blair needs a slap up the head for being a plonker! i did feel bad for him yesterday, but he needs to realise that hanging around with bush is a bad idea.

bush's daddy brought all this problem on with his "here take these guns mr afghanistan, have your jihad against the russians.. they are trying to knock your religion and you need to stand up for yourselves! dont let anyone beat down on your beliefs or your freedom!" then low and behold america starts slagging them.. next thing you know theyre doing exactly wot bush snr told em to do and sticking up for their beliefs but putting a jihad on america etc. now i'm not saying their beliefs are right or wrong. no one is right or wrong in this situation. no one wins in war. both sides end up with blood on their hands.

the rich people of this world keep themselves rich by making sure the peasants keep slaughtering each other and its f*cking disgusting.

*yawn*

I'm going to ignore most of the rabid anti-Bush ramblings in your post cos they're getting seriously old hat. Whatever communal "We Hate Bush" record you're getting em off it's time to change it - even the fucking Crazy Frog would be an improvement.

Anyway get your facts right. The Afghanistan conflict was during Reagan's presidency, so wasn't really related to Bush at all. So how about instead of blaming him or his daddy, we blame the nutters who thought blowing up a bus in rush hour would be a good idea? After all, two wrongs don't make a right.

Oh and for a punishment, we should incarcerate them in either Wales or Birmingham. That way if they start blowing stuff up again, no-one will be too bothered.

 

[PLightstar]

Even if they do catch them, they could never let them go in this country, mobs would be waiting for them. They should be punished to the full extent of the law, but not past it. Really we should not let our anger get in the way of civisled justice, otherwise we are no better than warlord controlled countries.

 

[tankgirl_ni]

"In my opinion the "War on terror" will never end, simply because there will allways be someone who is willing to blow themselves (and as many others as possible) up to try and prove a point."

thats very very true. humans will always find stuff to argue about and disagree on because we all have different ideas and beliefs and there will always be that unstable bunch who will take things to the extreme to try and convince everyone that their belief is the right belief and that everyone else is wrong. there's no real way of removing that element. when people's ideology feels opressed and threatened the adrenalin starts pumping, anger and hatred is expressed and if someone comes up and says "this is how to stand up for yourself follow me" they do.

the whole "everything would be alright if it wasn't for those people over there" take on things is pathetic because even if "those people over there" were gotten rid of.. there would always be some other people somewhere else who were pissing them off by doing something else they didnt agree with. there is no end for this vicious circle except extinction i guess.

northern ireland will never be "peace" because its bred down through generations to hate the other side because they are wrong. and its the people in the worst economic areas who are sticking to their guns because they have nothing else to cling to. they believe if their side wins life will be better for them and they will get rewarded for fighting the cause. and when the republican and unionist organisations got fed up picking on each other they started to pick on other minoritys, refugees, ethnic minorities, homosexuals, the chinese and jewish community. which branded belfast the most racist city in belfast.

there is so much apathy over here now that the majority of (and i hate to use this phrase but "middle class") people really couldn't give a damn about it all and choose to ignore both sides of the old tit for tat argument. most people i know dont even use their vote in elections over here anymore because they dont see the point, which sucks because then the two extremes of republicans and unionists get voted in every time because their loyal supporters dont want to give up the fight.
even getting stuck in bomb scares on a day to day basis has got people fed up and bored. its become part of a daily routine that even the element of fear the terrorists try to create has been dampened. they just want to get on with their lives instead of getting caught up in the middle of something that they have no interest in in the first place.

 

[Chilly]

So justice is all about making you feel good after something bad has happened?

That isn't what I said, I said I would be happy with it, as in content happy, not just had a blowjob happy (subtle difference). And yes, justice IS about making those affected (I was not personally affected but in something like this that is more than just a one off killing or single crime) feel better about what happened and that REVENGE (aka justice in the modern world) is carried out.
Justice is, after all, just a legally backed flavour of revenge with a touch of beurocracy.

 

[nath]

Bollocks - justice is nothing to do with revenge.

 

[PLightstar]

Justice in the form of unbaised courts is not revenge.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Oh and for a punishment, we should incarcerate them in either Wales or Birmingham. That way if they start blowing stuff up again, no-one will be too bothered.

Best contribution to this thread so far.

Oh and the bus bombing wasn't a suicide bomber.
Justice has nothing to do with revenge, not anymore anyway.

Bombing a city and then saying it is in "response" to Iraq/Afghanistan/Birmingham/mars is complete bollocks, simply a way to try and justify their actions by using revenge as the motivation.

It's gonna happen again, and again. So get those kevlars now!! Going cheap. Maybe i should go into business selling em, would make a packet for the Olympics. Man, i'm rich.

 

[Chilly]

Bollocks - justice is nothing to do with revenge.

of course it is, if no one ever wanted revenge why would the concept of punishment exist??
Why do the police ask you if you want to "press charges" if someone takes a swing at you outside a kebab van? Because you can't take a swing back without the risk of getting nicked but you CAN get the bloke done, or at least cause him a lot of hassle and bother. Revenge.

 

[PLightstar]

Thats about breaking the Law, which are created to protect people, otherwise there would be anarchy across the country. You get punished for breaking the systems laws, not because of revenge, the 'press charges' are mainly due to the fact that you are witness and would become part of the prosecution of the defendent.

 

[Chilly]

that's all true but the concept of justice is very, very similar to the concept of revenge, which is what i'm trying to say!

 

[Stazbumpa]

But sadly it seems that the law and justice are two very different things.


PS: "Islamic" terrorism will never end until they turn the world into their idea of an Islamic state. Then it *might* end, but I doubt it.

Government(- church) + democracy + human rights x freedom of speech = stable country that doesn't breed terrorists.

Thing is, you have to fight like fuck to reach that stage, and thats the bit people forget.

 

[Chilly]

nearly ever good thing humans have ever done has been a result of some quite nasty bloodshed (in the civilisational level, not things like inventing the bicycle).