Why?

[vayasen]

Why is running around Pennines retaking keeps...and fighting with any enemy you you see......considered a noble...honourable....roleplaying.....game defining act.


When


Running round ATTACKING the enemy.....taking his keeps..fighting wherever you find him.....and continually breaking down relic doors..........why is this brushed off as 'rp whoring'?


The 2 are identicall......we not only as Albion have liscence to defend our realm.....we are also encouraged to attack enemies.


Please dont be so eager to brush off peoepl in Emain as RPwhores. I send most of my time there. It is where most action is. Wow..im such an RPwhore.



Please....stop making such brutal distinctions. Unitil you do...no1 is ever going to get on in this realm.

 

[Fafnir]

Well first off all many that are frequent visitors to emain, have a hard time finding their way around their own realm.

 

[Generic Poster]

You would attack the enemy while your own house is in flames?

 

[Coren]

If that means the enemy defence is weakened, then yes, I would.

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

When there is no valuables in the house and you don't live there?

 

[Laird MacGregor]

I think there's a simple answer to that Vay my kinsmen...

Remember when we had no level 50's in the realm? The fan would hit the shite, keeps would be taken in our realm and we had relics to defend.

"Call to Arms!!" would race across the alliance channel.

Swiftly followed by a reactionary muster from across Albion, we all used to rush to defence.

However, during the thick of the action various people who answered the call to arms would do /who Barrows, and /who Lyonesse to gauge which guilds or solo Albions could not or didn't feel compelled to launch themselves to the realms defence.

Now during those formative months we had many, many people rooted in the barrows and lyonesse and they made what could only be described as a tarnished reputation for what they represented, i.e. Beyond the Call of Duty for personal gain.

Now you know, as a Unity Warlord, I as with you and many others sought to reduce the background noise of stalwart defenders who drop everything to rush to action bitching at those who sought to rush to lvl 50 for what we perceived at the time to be the greater good of the alliance and Albion.

That was months ago, and as much as it's an old wound and argument, I don't perceive there has been a greater degree of reconciliation between the two perceptions.

Now, as the share or lvl 40-50's in the realm has flooded the server much the same action is carried out, this time rather /who Emain or /who Odins is the chosen lookup during times of realm crisis.

So who cares?

Well let's play a game of capture the flag...

20 players on Red team, 15 of which constantly give up whatever position they have on the server when the call is given out... "Defend the Base!!”

The other 5 remaining players don't budge, but continue to attack.

All well and good, defence and offence carried out. Flag saved.

But the 5 remaining players who steadfastly refuse to defend the base believing offence is their prerogative, day in day out will eventually get an icy reception within a clan.


So what bearing does this have on DAoC?? Well for a year now, defend the base players have been spotting the offence team. And seeing as how saving a relic or recapturing keeps is certainly a more tangible realm duty than APK, AMG, DC MMG, MPK zerging, then yes there IS a greater degree of honour associated with the former.

But let's get things clear from the start... LoE and SoTL DO defend the base; but perhaps Albion would just like to see you stuck in Albions frontier for a month to allow everyone else to zerg emain for a change? Who knows what the mob really wants?

Either way we need both at all times, offence and defence... time-sharing is not a viable option but then again, neither is it truly a prerogative to choose one for a guild at the exclusion of the other. For if you do, I fear you breed animosity among the less tolerant, and dare I say it civil majority?

Jealousy and Hate often quoted in the realms do have dynamic roots. I for one do what I can to stamp it out where I see it, I trust you know that Battle Brother.

Think on kinsmen.

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Originally posted by Laird MacGregor

But let's get things clear from the start... LoE and SoTL DO defend the base; but perhaps Albion would just like to see you stuck in Albions frontier for a month to allow everyone else to zerg emain for a change? Who knows what the mob really wants?

Everyone else already zerg emain! its common to see at least 60 albs in emain these days.

 

[the_smurflord]

Originally posted by Generic Poster
You would attack the enemy while your own house is in flames?

Depends if he torched my house or not

 

[Laird MacGregor]

Originally posted by old.Gombur Glodson


Everyone else already zerg emain! its common to see at least 60 albs in emain these days.

Of course they do, the games designed for it.

But when I have had to port to Emain and start shouting around the zerg route for people to come and defend when the server stats don't allow for a comprehensive Albion muster, well... you know things are getting desperate then kinsmen.

In a perfect world, the concept would be commincated simply by doing a /realm to find out where the action Should be in the 3 fronts, and people move there... but mythic made Emain the easyiest place to fight to have a novice mode for RvR

Can anyone remind me when in the history of the server we had a 3 realm 100+ man battle in middle pennines?

My point stands.

 

[liste]

i still dont see what the hype is about.

personally, i'd rather be on defence than in emain. Everyone else seems to dislike the zerging, so i dont really understand why they go there in the first place, but that's up to them, i guess.
If we only had offence, Pennines would look like hell.
if we only had defence, Pennines would look even more like hell, since it would have all albs, and all mids in it constantly.


Let people play the game as they chose.
as long as all positions are covered, theres nothing to complain about.

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Originally posted by liste

personally, i'd rather be on defence than in emain. Everyone else seems to dislike the zerging, so i dont really understand why they go there in the first place, but that's up to them, i guess.

Because it is actually possible NOT to zerg in emain?

 

[Sagba]

Can anyone say that s/he think keep retakes is fun? Me think no.

Taking back our own keeps is boring, true(if there is no defenders that is). However, we need to take em back to get DF access. Sure, we can let mids/hibs have all our keeps because we dont even have relics. This is not bad idea at all, this way hibs/mids claim all our keeps and when they see we took one keep back, they run to defend the rest of them=less people in emain. We dont need DF(no more legion/prince raids) or relics, right?

 

[Laird MacGregor]

Originally posted by old.Gombur Glodson


Because it is actually possible NOT to zerg in emain?

Possible, but not probable, the Zerg emerges every day.

Anyway... like liste says you need both. But like I said, guilds need to make a concious effort to do both, or at the very least not allow guildsmen to present an 'offical' guild position that either defence or offence is donkeys work. That truly breeds contempt I'm sure you agree.

 

[Laird MacGregor]

Originally posted by Sagba
Can anyone say that s/he think keep retakes is fun? Me think no.

Taking back our own keeps is boring, true (if there is no defenders that is) However, we need to take em back ...

[Edit] (misquoted OOC 1st time) [/Edit]

Yes, but it's a tangible realm duty, and the very simple fact that it can be boring reflects considerably on those who do it day in, day out. Think on that.

I prescribe the first duty of an elected Unity Warlord has to be to prove their ability and drive to perform that very thankless duty for the benefit of the realm. Only then can they deal with the thankless task of continuation after command failures.

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by liste
Let people play the game as they chose.
as long as all positions are covered, theres nothing to complain about.

Totally agree - let people play as they choose. I think the sentiments come from people feeling it is a necessary evil to retake keeps and keep your own realm intact. This is how I see it myself. Hell, I don't enjoy taking undefended keeps, and as an infil it is probably more exciting for me than most. Necessary evil, which is why I do it, at least that is my perception of it.

But there you have it... 'as long as all positions are covered' means someone has to do it, and it ends up being the same ones time and time again. This is the background to all of this, and I am sure there is a buildup of tension as people watch others enjoying aggressive action in Hib or Mid while they plod their own frontiers on the mundane but necessary stuff. Should we all just drop everything and take up the same stance? We'll play where we want to, and sod everything else? I'd love to lead a muster through Midgard and take Fensalir, just to get a chance to stick a dirk up Solid's nose every night of the week.... in recent weeks though we simply haven't had the chance. Now that impacts our enjoyment of the game and it's getting a bit tedious.

I think that is why these comments end up being made. Personally, I don't count it against any individuals or guilds, and anyone who has been in PL will testify, I am the first to promote people doing what they want to do at all times. It's a game for people to enjoy however they choose to.

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Originally posted by Laird MacGregor


Yes, but it's a tangible realm duty, and the very simple fact that it can be boring reflects considerably on those who do it day in, day out. Think on that.

I prescribe the first duty of an elected Unity Warlord has to be to prove their ability and drive to perform that very thankless duty for the benefit of the realm. Only then can they deal with the thankless task of continuation after command failures.

I think of school/work as a duty, I dont really like "being on duty" when im playing a game to have fun and relax a bit.
When I play games I am off duty.

 

[Laird MacGregor]

Gombur, I think you are confusing yurself kin.

You play the game for fun, yes, as do we all. We've only got a few trolls who play the game because they simply hate it, everyone in it, and everything else.

But realm duty has a sense of achievement behind it beyond the normal numbers counter, body count, going up. If I wanted a frag count, I'd play a better clan war game than DAoC (UT2003 anyone?).

Realm duty, defence, responding to calls to arms immediately has it's own rewards.

Just keep in mind the true issue Vay has risen here. He's asked why make distinctions, and I believe he's recieved an eloquant answer he can draw upon with his previous experience as a member of the Unity.

 

[Sagba]

Originally posted by Laird MacGregor


Yes, but it's a tangible realm duty, and the very simple fact that it can be boring reflects considerably on those who do it day in, day out. Think on that.

Read my post again if you like, I'm pretty sure that I said we NEED to take our keeps back even if it's boring. Think on that=I'm not there taking keeps back? Right...

 

[Laird MacGregor]

Originally posted by Sagba


Read my post again if you like, I'm pretty sure that I said we NEED to take our keeps back even if it's boring. Think on that=I'm not there taking keeps back? Right...

Don't be daft Sagba, I know yur there

[Edit] I misquoted you, corrected now [/Edit]

I was inviting extra thought behind those who perform the task from anyone who truly does feel it's donkeys work.

Few people receive bows from this Warlord... but If I take a wander up to our front and see an Albion who reports as being on duty, if I visit mithra and see a lvl 50 on rez duty, if I see a crafter who is supplying new comers to the server with free equipment, if I see a tank unravelling the mysteries of the game for lowbies as a body guard... well for me, these sacrifices bring honour to the guilds.

 

[case-rigantis]

taking back undefended keeps is boring indeed

so why let mids/hibs run riot and take the keeps in the first place?

i`m sure if we can get some communication paths running as soon as we see a keep fall we could get 2 or 3fg`s together to stop the incursion and attacking a defended benowyc or whatever will be much more fun than teh zerg!!11

if mids/hibs know that albs will come out to defend then it would discourage the current situation where 1fg of hibs can enter our realm and take 3 keeps unopposed

mids holding the tower on exc road..whjy do we stand for it? for gods sake lets beat them to a pulp and send them packing

i suggest taking the war back to the enemy..they take a keep we take 2 of theirs..they zerg our merchants we camp their merchants and kill anything that moves..
.they camp AMG in emain?..we port to odins take 3 or 4 keeps and camp their BK

unrestricted warfare is what we need

 

[Jenkz]

Originally posted by Laird MacGregor
However, during the thick of the action various people who answered the call to arms would do /who Barrows, and /who Lyonesse to gauge which guilds or solo Albions could not or didn't feel compelled to launch themselves to the realms defence.

Now during those formative months we had many, many people rooted in the barrows and lyonesse and they made what could only be described as a tarnished reputation for what they represented, i.e. Beyond the Call of Duty for personal gain.

the problem i see is these "tarnished reputations" and stereotypical assumptions still hold true even 12 months down the line. some people at the time (not myself i might add) felt it was more important to get to 50 asap than it was to hold off a few relics.

people change, people move on. infact a large proportion of the membership of the guilds you refer to have completely changed - people leave the game, new people come in.

Possible, but not probable, the Zerg emerges every day.

there is an increasingly large number of albions roaming around in 1 or 2 full groups, well away from all zergs at all times, seeking out other 1 to 2 full group encounters. sure, a large number of albions do just sit at the MMG or DC all day, but by no means everyone.

Anyway... like liste says you need both. But like I said, guilds need to make a concious effort to do both, or at the very least not allow guildsmen to present an 'offical' guild position that either defence or offence is donkeys work. That truly breeds contempt I'm sure you agree.

i personally dont see the need for everyone to rush to retake Hurbury when it falls, or any other individual keep. i dont see the need for albion to make a concerted effort to retake keeps. imo the following reasons apply for keep retakes:

- relic defence, retake, claim /upgrade 10 in a later patch = very effective relic defence.
- beno for crafters
- opening up DF
- opening up XP grounds around the frontier, however guard patrols seem to be less agro-prone at this current patch so it's not that important.
- opening up areas for epic quests, as above re: guard patrols

only ONE of those points, imo, has a realm responsibility. thats relic defence. the others are all situational depending on who or what guilds are doing what. ie. why is the whole of albion going to retake keeps to open up DF for a planned Phoenix Legion or Lords of England DF hunt? - should it not be their responsibility to open it up for themselves?

theres actually no game-written reason for everyone to stop doing what they are doing as soon as an albion keep falls. sure, if you want to take your guild there, or a random group there, to retake feel free. but its unfair to put that responsibility on the whole realm then blacklist them when they dont show up.

But let's get things clear from the start... LoE and SoTL DO defend the base; but perhaps Albion would just like to see you stuck in Albions frontier for a month to allow everyone else to zerg emain for a change?

no one has ASKED you to stay in our own frontier all day long, if you do, you do it out of your own will. feel free to run around emain or odins all day, i think you'll find it makes very little difference. when a relic raid is announced just ensure you're back to defend/retake just like the overwhelming majority are.

 

[Laird MacGregor]

Ah Case you mean...

"You poke me in the eye...
I rip yur mothers hairy baws aff and stuff thum doon yur throat!!!"

Favourite tactic of mine that one

 

[Generic Poster]

Originally posted by Coren
If that means the enemy defence is weakened, then yes, I would.

But... how does killing trolls in Emain, weaken Midgard's defence?

Originally posted by old.Gombur Glodson
When there is no valuables in the house and you don't live there?

There is pride in every Albion keep, which is valuable enough to protect.

Also, keep-takes are mostly about DF these days. So the longer our keeps are in enemy hands, the longer they have DF access and subsequently become stronger whilst we weaken.

Originally posted by old.Gombur Glodson
Everyone else already zerg emain! its common to see at least 60 albs in emain these days.

A little hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

 

[case-rigantis]

Originally posted by Laird MacGregor
Ah Case you mean...

"You poke me in the eye...
I rip yur mothers hairy baws aff and stuff thum doon yur throat!!!"

Favourite tactic of mine that one

damn right i do! i think a nice message for all the dead mids/hibs helps too our most recent on being..

"/em tell your people if they come to alb retribution will follow have a nice christmas "

 

[Laird MacGregor]

Ack don't take the spirit of my post the wrong way brother Jenkz

We've drawn an overall pattern of game play on this server which has very little change in recent months, I'm sure you'd agree.

Let's draw Midgard into our equations, back when each realm had equal share of relics (not to considerably back in the past).

Attack Odin’s, Midgard turned up. Without fail. Great running tactical battles could be fought on, for many, unfamiliar territory.

Midgard gained a reputation for not allowing any keep to reside in enemy hands for longer than 2 hours, without fail. All credit to them. I'd gainsay a significant result of this is that keep takes in Midgard have significantly reduced - check the days.

Can you truly place your hand on heart that we've ever achieved that as a realm?

No, for exactly the reasons I've prescribed. Although I know there are numbers now (Liste for example) who do force a game play situation whereby we at least attempt to stage rapid reaction units to deal with any impending threat in our front. He's even achieving that without relics to defend, attempting to stage a reduction in apathy required for when relics are returned.

Finally we, do not remain in our frontier. I think my point on the capture the flag and defend the base effect still stands, as at least some measure as to explain why some people feel the need to make the distinction. Good suggestions for increased relational actions for all guilds approach to 'realm ethos' have been glaringly apparent for months now.

Resolution is yet to be presented.

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Originally posted by Generic Poster




A little hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

Why? I hate the alb zerg, and I think its boring when we do rvr with more than 1fg.

 

[Generic Poster]

1fg or not, you complain about the number of Albs in Emain, yet you go there yourself.

Like it or not, you are part of the 60 Albs in Emain.

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Im also part of a 9 billion world population that doesnt mean I cant complain about some people being annoying? does it?
I like emain cause its the best rvr zone there is atm and I've had some of the best fights there.
Now lets have some more naggin at eachother, thats so enjoyable.

 

[Jenkz]

Originally posted by Generic Poster
1fg or not, you complain about the number of Albs in Emain, yet you go there yourself.

Like it or not, you are part of the 60 Albs in Emain.

we dont actually, when there are 45+ albs in emain we usually log off and d something else, then come back an hour later to see if the situ. has improved.

laird, mids do not come instantly to take keeps. they often take 2 to 3 hours to appear at an alb claimed keep in their frontier.

and its by no means all of midgard, its a small number, maybe 2-4 groups.

sure, long ago, they used to appear in huge number, but this is in the day when midgard massivley outnumbered and outleveled albion and hibernia put together. where every mid you saw was purple con, when there was pretty much nothing better to do than appear at bled cause the albion grey/greencon army had come out in force to take a keep.

the times have changed now, mids are scared to appear at a 2 fg defended/claimed sotl keep, they'd much rather let us sweat it out than attack, and when they do we'd have been sitting around for 3 hours waiting for them to appear.

for example, last night hibernia/excal took EVERY one of the albion keeps. im sure if that happened on this server, AND we had relics to defend, every single albion would appear to defend the relics + do their best to retake the keeps. but now, do you see midgard or hibernia instantly coming out to reclaim nott, or glen, or crim, as a one off keep raid? i certainly dont, and if i do its usually a guild or a small number, not the whole realm. it's not "for the realm" or anything else....

 

[Generic Poster]

Originally posted by old.Gombur Glodson
Im also part of a 9 billion world population that doesnt mean I cant complain about some people being annoying? does it?

You can complain about anyone you like, but if you're doing the same as them, it's not going to look good, yes?

Note: You complain about people being in Emain. Not what they do.



Jenkz, when was the last time you took a Mid keep?
How often do you check /realm and see mid keeps owned by another realm?