Why SBs crit damage is down!

[nerfdom]

Maybe this should be posted elsewhere but then again this is where the newcomers and die hards come to post.

Wondered why since la nerf (at least made me aware of it) my damage was affected so badly - even when i was using crit only. Well low and behold. Looks like la affects sbs when they wield 2 weapons at all times. What this means is that if you hold 2 weapons then la mechanics kicks in and lowers the damage of the main weapon to around 60% (not absolutely sure of amount and could be lower) of what it would do normally. This also affects any crit move you care to make. So if you want to create a good crit sb you still have to train in la!! If you don't believe me put a shield in your left hand and try the crit moves then. Take note of the increase in damage of the main weapon. When you do this la is negated as you are not holding 2 weapons. This is odd thinking and is the reason all SBs are nerfed whether they were using la or not!

Looks like SBs were meant to use 2 handed weapons cos with these our damage is as it should be cos la has been kicked into touch again. Weird thinking this for sure.

You can't understand how an inf can perf/garote so hard using the same weapon? - well the answer is above - with the same weapon you will put out around 60% of their damage.

Wtfla (Norse SB - 31 now)

 

[Danya]

It was like that before the LA nerf too. That's just how LA works (to make up for it swinging every round). The LA nerf only changed the LA styles, not the base workings.

I'd guess mythic intended SBs to crit with a 2 hander in general.

Infs get a decent perf with two blades, we loose out on getting the offhand poison in a lot of the time though, especially in thid. I've gone several fights without needed to revenom my offhand before.

 

[Melachi-]

I find it hard to believe it was mythics intention for SB's to use 2handers all the time, why would they have given us LA spec line then?

 

[Danya]

Not all the time, only for the initial crit strike out of stealth. Once the fight is joined you would switch to two swords...

 

[Thorgald]

hmmm.. well.. even if u DO get a good crit hit u cant do any of the followup styles as u go out of combat when u switch weapons.. so if u get the PA in and then switch weapons u cant do the CD followup with the 2 weapons u have now... so i very much doubt that that was the intention of Mythic....

and just TRYING to do the CD followup with a slow arse 2 hander is just begging to get owned...

 

[Danya]

Yeah you can. Hit PA. Hit CD. Hit Weapon switch key. Hit CD again (with cancelstyle off), it'll say "You already have this style selected" and you'll CD with your one-hander.

 

[Thorgald]

yea ok my bad on that one than, but then ur still on the slow 2 hander speed table until the next combat run after u changed weapons..

 

[Danya]

Ys, there's a big lag between hitting the PA and the CD... High quickness can help some though.

 

[Danya]

Something else to consider. Someone on US daoc tested evade vs dual wield... It seems wielding two weapons halves your opponents evades. Another thing that's bad with critblades.

 

[liste]

you dont even have to do it like that Danyan.

PA -> put your mainhand 1handed weapon on your quick bar and click it (the offhand will automatically equip) -> hit CD.

if you're REALLY fast, you can also swap a weapon for a freshly envenomed one from your backpack, in the middle of a chain of attacks.

Timers dont care what you do besides the follow up. you can even PA -> sit down -> CD if that tickles your fancy

 

[Urgat Rip-Eye]

Yup.

LA always has worked like that.

Its because of the different mechanics that LA has compared to Celtic Dual, and Dual Wield.

When an alb or hib duel wields, both hands hit for full damage but the off hand does not swing every time. It has a % Chance. Speccing DW or CD gives styles and increases this chance.

When a mid duel wields, there is a 100% chance that both weapons swing each round. that is... you WILL attack with both hands every time you swing.

However... each weapon that hits, has its damage halved, then has a % bonus damage added to it. Speccing LA increses this % bonus damage (2LA spec = 1%) gives styles... AND ALSO acts as the varience moderator for your off hand weapon.


If you are MID, and using two weapons... you HAVE to specc LA high.

If you dont you are doing the following...

Halving damage from each weapon, then not making up for it by having good bonus damage applied (at 1 LA spec, both oyur weaponas are doing 60% normal damage)

Swinging a LA with 1 LA spec, is like swinging your main hand weapon with only 1 Main hand weapon specc. Varience will be atrocious.

Why LA doesnt work like alb/hib counterparts... ill never know.

 

[laga]

Suggestions on BG SB

This thread turned into high-lvl SB discussion since ppl started discussing CD and we dont have that in bg.
Facts of BG r:
U spend a lot of time camping/being camped at mpk/ck/apk. This means u can't afford to melee for more than 1 maybe 2 blows before u have to run safe unless u wanna die to casters.

There is NO SB spec that can make u win 1vs1 against an infil all else being equal(both experienced, same SC, same buffs, no one gets PA in).

My conclusions from the above is that you want to do as much damage as possible in a short period of time.
Skip LA!
My most rewarding spec has been( I hope i remember correctly):
19+5 Stealth (U wont be harder to find going above 24. You'll detect better and move faster but it's negligible)
21+5 crit (for PA ofcourse)
14+5 Axe
10+5 env
? LA (U get some leftover points in LA)

Get 3 2H axes/swords atleast. 1 poison, 1 snare and 3rd with more poison or debuff. I actually have a 4th with disease for when I wanna kite someone but it's overdoing it a little.

Camping apk/ck/mpk tactics r simple:
Go for casters and PA, Sprint away. He will go down if u get PA and poison in unless he is buffed/SC. If he is buffed follow up with behind style(90% of them run) or just live with it incase he has got lot of backup.

Now to the fun part. Beating a infil in 1vs1 solo encounters. Since we can't beat them fair and square we gotta be sneaky. U need a decent connection. Laag is da killer in this scenario. U got to practice being very fast at getting PA off. YES it means continually spamming "target nearest enemy". As soon as u see u get a target hit stick, sprint and PA (with the snare axe).
RUN straight through him and keep running while switching to poison axe. Check if you got PA in. If u did stay and finish him, it will be a walk in the park. If u didnt PA keep running and pray he didnt get snare off, usually It's no problem if he did since you ought to be out of range anyway. Remember u used snare 1st. Now a couple of things can happen. If he follows and can't hit u run and stealth again and PA again(only works on nOObs). If u don't get the option to PA again check the damage u did and try to figure out if he is buffed. I'd keep running if he is otherwise stay for an even fight that u ought to win(assuming u r buffed and SC ofcourse).
Extra tip: Since u have very slow weapon speed(well, this applies to all melee but easier and more rewarding with a slowhitter) u got to do a circling motion while running through him making him miss a lot of styled blows. It's easier for u to anticipate your next blow with the slow weapon. Best thing to practice this is to duel a berz or savage and figure out the way to make him miss a lot of styled blows. Ofcourse he can do the same to you but it takes a lot more skill when youre hitting fast to be dancing. I've meet ppl that can and well, hat off theyre skilled. Doesn't happen that often though.
Some might call the above cowardice. Well, entering a fight u can never win is stupid and I'd rather be a coward than stupid.
Have fun. I actually think I am gonna roll another SB when my cave-shammie is out. Gonna try lowering axe and up the env.

 

[Urgat Rip-Eye]

Re: Suggestions on BG SB

Originally posted by laga
This thread turned into high-lvl SB discussion since ppl started discussing CD and we dont have that in bg.
Facts of BG r:
U spend a lot of time camping/being camped at mpk/ck/apk. This means u can't afford to melee for more than 1 maybe 2 blows before u have to run safe unless u wanna die to casters.

There is NO SB spec that can make u win 1vs1 against an infil all else being equal(both experienced, same SC, same buffs, no one gets PA in).

My conclusions from the above is that you want to do as much damage as possible in a short period of time.
Skip LA!
My most rewarding spec has been( I hope i remember correctly):
19+5 Stealth (U wont be harder to find going above 24. You'll detect better and move faster but it's negligible)
21+5 crit (for PA ofcourse)
14+5 Axe
10+5 env
? LA (U get some leftover points in LA)

Get 3 2H axes/swords atleast. 1 poison, 1 snare and 3rd with more poison or debuff. I actually have a 4th with disease for when I wanna kite someone but it's overdoing it a little.

Camping apk/ck/mpk tactics r simple:
Go for casters and PA, Sprint away. He will go down if u get PA and poison in unless he is buffed/SC. If he is buffed follow up with behind style(90% of them run) or just live with it incase he has got lot of backup.

Now to the fun part. Beating a infil in 1vs1 solo encounters. Since we can't beat them fair and square we gotta be sneaky. U need a decent connection. Laag is da killer in this scenario. U got to practice being very fast at getting PA off. YES it means continually spamming "target nearest enemy". As soon as u see u get a target hit stick, sprint and PA (with the snare axe).
RUN straight through him and keep running while switching to poison axe. Check if you got PA in. If u did stay and finish him, it will be a walk in the park. If u didnt PA keep running and pray he didnt get snare off, usually It's no problem if he did since you ought to be out of range anyway. Remember u used snare 1st. Now a couple of things can happen. If he follows and can't hit u run and stealth again and PA again(only works on nOObs). If u don't get the option to PA again check the damage u did and try to figure out if he is buffed. I'd keep running if he is otherwise stay for an even fight that u ought to win(assuming u r buffed and SC ofcourse).
Extra tip: Since u have very slow weapon speed(well, this applies to all melee but easier and more rewarding with a slowhitter) u got to do a circling motion while running through him making him miss a lot of styled blows. It's easier for u to anticipate your next blow with the slow weapon. Best thing to practice this is to duel a berz or savage and figure out the way to make him miss a lot of styled blows. Ofcourse he can do the same to you but it takes a lot more skill when youre hitting fast to be dancing. I've meet ppl that can and well, hat off theyre skilled. Doesn't happen that often though.
Some might call the above cowardice. Well, entering a fight u can never win is stupid and I'd rather be a coward than stupid.
Have fun. I actually think I am gonna roll another SB when my cave-shammie is out. Gonna try lowering axe and up the env.

Re that last bit...

Some sb report that they hardly notice a difference with just 2 axe spec.

I am certain there was a recent bg 'blade who did not spec a weapon at all... and put all into stealth, crit, and venom.

PA and run... let poison finish the job.

 

[living]

walking around some1 wont do anything if they know how to use /face

 

[Zonder]

Zyper, you gotta admit though, most of 'em don't

 

[laga]

Face wont help

Face wont help, if u see them use face just run out of range turn when you see him follow or when you need to hit. Tbh face makes it even easier when I am a slowhitter unless he is very good at using face but it's very hard. Remember that u stop autorun when u press face.
It's kinda hard to explain but duel a friend and tell him to use face and you'll quite quickly see what I mean.

btw I am no wizz at this. You could say I have a good grasp of how it's supposed to be done and that usually make me come out on top but since I have a 50 SB I have seen people that will run circles around me laughing and make me hit a lot of unstyled blows.

 

[Zonder]

Tbh i don't autorun when dueling 1 on 1, could be me though.

 

[Danya]

/stick will stop that usually, all the inf needs to do is garotte you since that snares.

if you're REALLY fast, you can also swap a weapon for a freshly envenomed one from your backpack, in the middle of a chain of attacks.

I do that all the time, usually only neccessary for 2 on 1s tho.

 

[nerfdom]

Good way to drop an inf

BG1 tactics only!

To drop an inf - buffed or otherwise - bs2 with 2 axes (apply 2 poisons hopefully) - switch to a slow 2 hander for thigh cut (Morning Rage for instance) - no delay). Keep an eye on damage - if the damn thing is in bits hold onto the Morning if you want and hit again. If not swap to the Njessi 2 handed with fresh poison.

Perfing - again 2 axes - garote straight after with Morning Rage (nasty delay) - run through and get a gap (to offset weapon delay). Turn and swap to the Njessi 2 handed (4.3 speed) and engage. If you have hit hard enough for the first 2 then you should come out on top no trouble (lots of infs have tried to run at this point).

To be honest though a lot of this comes down to practise - as Laga said above - you have to get the perf/bs2 off before the other.

Stealth? - you can spec ok, indeed fine, and end up with 24 in stealth. It really is the answer in my opinion and i will never enter BG or RVR for that matter without full stealth!

Wtfla
Honed
Peaceful
Useless
Jones
Franky
All Thid SBs
Edit: Keep an eye open for Certifiable hehe - full la (just gotta try it)