Why instas?

[old.mos]

Why does any class at all have instas, i just dont get it. Whats the point. Give all casting classes quickcast instead, i can live with that, but a class who has both some sort of speed and the ability to cast spells while running is just pure BS.

The thing is that mythic realise that its unfair that 2 realms have em. Solution? They give em to the 3rd as well, BAH.

Remove the instas, the ruin the rvr!

My 2 cents

Best Regards

 

[old.cerebus]

Well having a Skald alt, I would have to say that Insta's are cool.

Being a shield Hero, I would have to say Insta's really suck ass.

Last night I charged into Odins and my group met an orange con and two blue cons. 4 versus 3.

I charged head first, being a hero and all, and a blue con mezzed me. My group ran in and started bashing them. Now all the many days and months I have spent levelling this guy, finding good armour and weaponary, all for nothing. Taken outta the game for about 30 seconds. All enemy dead, me stood there looking like an idiot.

Okay I thought, I hate mez, so I carried on running to the Mile Gate.

Red con Healer class, we charged, I got mezzed yet again. Red con left to fight my druid friend. Me stood there useless, yet again.

At this point I was about to throw my keyboard at my dog in frustration. I managed to start moving again and we ran to the Alb PK. An Avalonian!!

I charged, got mezzed, Albs killed my group whilst I stood there unable to move.

Maybe it was just an unlucky night for me, I can honestly say though that it was the most annoying thing I had ever witnessed in this game.

When your class has the ability to insta mez it's cool, when your class is basically taken out of the game it's sucks. I'm sure there is a place in-between where we are all happy.

Where though?

 

[Roalith]

Tanks should have a higher resistance chance against mezzing, otherwise they stand no hope in hell of getting to melee range in skirmishes - simple as that. I hate mezz.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

CC exists to protect weaker classes from the tanks, cough If it didn't exist, tanks would simply walk through an enemy force (no colissions in DAoC ) and chop down the poor mages. While it sucks to be mezzed, good CC is what determines the winner in RvR

 

[old.LandShark]

Much as I detest the majority of changes in 1.50, Purge and Determination (and increased resists available via DF items) will definitely help the tanks. On the other hand, what's shite is that casters, rogues and in fact everybody can also get purge. (this is a realm ability that clears all negative effects such as stun, mezz, snare etc)

That's just BS really, makes it more of a sorc/bard/healer nerf than a tank boost...

 

[old.cerebus]

good CC is what determines the winner in RvR

Never a more true word said.

Unfortunatly, all these months I've put into my character won't decide my outcome in RvR if there is a caster that clicks the mouse button once and mezzes me.

Tanks get a hard time in RvR. I think tanks should get something to protect themselves from the weaker classes ( You know, the ones that hit us for 600 damage before we can even get close to them, yeah that's right, THOSE 'weaker' classes )

What bothers me is that no matter how much time I put into my character, one little mouse click takes me out of the game completely.

 

[old.chesnor]

Too many classes get instas, but they have a place in the game. I would like to see all instas removed from classes with high offense. For example, I cannot see why the cleric or skald need insta CC capability.

But take instas away from Middy Healers, and they will be uber-gimps.

Bottom line is though, we all know CC rules RvR. So just take a CC class with you. If your realm has a shortage of CC classes, then go roll one yourself

 

[Chenuba]

Originally posted by Roalith
Tanks should have a higher resistance chance against mezzing, otherwise they stand no hope in hell of getting to melee range in skirmishes - simple as that. I hate mezz.

Why not let Paladins or tanks in general have a Charge Chant/Buff ?, making them run faster in fx. 10 sec or something like that. Giving them a chance to just SOMETIMES get to the caster before tanks are mezzed/stunned/rooted.
Cut the max mezz/root/stun timer to 15 sec. MAX and let the speclvl decide how hard it is to resist instead of making it last longer.

In general, I think that DaoC need a lot of balancing in classes/realms. It's ridicolous that some classes, which are taking a lot of time to lvl and is cool in PvE too, becomes virtually obsolete in RvR.
I'm not saying we all should be Uber in solo RvR, but maybe some classes should be made stronger instead of all that nerfing making the players that made those Uberchars feeling cheated.

 

[Leah]

Well I have a bard and we don't get insta mezz and quite franky it sucks.

Mezz is about the only decent thing that Bards can actually do in rvr. But can we really?
As Bard mezz is not insta I have almost every time found myself to be the very first target that anyone goes for and therefore spend most of the time eating grass (or snow as the case may be) whilst my group gets decimated.

I never even get a chance to use my mezz.

Cerebrus you are not the only one frustrated by the imbalance in rvr.
Imo if 2 realms get insta then the third one should too, or they shold all be put on a timer - at least this way rvr might actually last a little bit longer than the usual 10 seconds.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Chenuba


Why not let Paladins or tanks in general have a Charge Chant/Buff ?, making them run faster in fx. 10 sec or something like that. Giving them a chance to just SOMETIMES get to the caster before tanks are mezzed/stunned/rooted.

A bit like the minstrel realm ability speed of sound? (30s group speed buff usable every 30 mins, doesn't break in combat and ignores all speed restrictions from speels such as snare, root, mez, stun, etc. However if you get mezzed/stunned you can't attack, just run around like a loon )

 

[Thorarin]

Well, all instants are on a timer...

 

[Tigerius]

Would the whining bards please find another thread? You're getting the instas, Albions insta-CC was never instant (you seriously can't think it was since it forces the user to run up to his targets), and is now also put on a ridicilously long timer.

No class should have insta-mez it aint harder than that, it aint a god given right to get an AoE mez of before your opponents do anything. That you deny your opponents the 3 second casting time before they loose the battle is pitiful.

 

[Bodzilla]

Having all cc spells taking 6secs+ to cast might help

 

[Leah]

Erm double post - see below

 

[Leah]

Tigerius my post was not a 'whining bard' one!

I was fully aware of all pros and cons of having a bard but I still created one and I really enjoy playing it.

What I was trying to say is that for balanced rvr all realms should either have insta mez (bad idea really as it would make alrady short rvr battle time even shorter) or it should be removed completely.

 

[Tigerius]

Right well we agree on that then

As it stands now it's unbalanced both before and after 1.51D.

 

[old.Atrophy]

Originally posted by chesnor


But take instas away from Middy Healers, and they will be uber-gimps.

What you meen they would be shamans

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by Pathfinder
While it sucks to be mezzed, good CC is what determines the winner in RvR

So in other words one "skill" is the tie-breaker in RvR. Great..

 

[Quemine]

Dun wanna be mezzed? Give healers a reason not to spec Pacification then... or don't all run in a tight group...

 

[old.Sami]

As Bard mezz is not insta I have almost every time found myself to be the very first target that anyone goes for and therefore spend most of the time eating grass (or snow as the case may be) whilst my group gets decimated.

Try some different approach to a "suddenly emerged RvR situation". My bard has a decent amount of HP and AF, so I'm not the first one to go down when things get real tough. Instead of just staying back with the other support chars, Im usually the first one to charge forward. Grab your wep and shield, rush towards the enemy, stop just before meeting the tanks, cast few mezzes on the enemy wizzes. When you start getting hit, hit back and hope for the best. If all went well, all the enemy nukers are mezzed, you only have to fight a few tanks. Your casters are still moving and if you can take 2-3 hits from the enemy tank, your casters have already turned your opponent golden brown and crispy. Have done this and can tell you it works. Don't just sit back and wait for a troll to come into your range, CHAAARGE!!

Of course, if you're grouped with buncha ballerinas, you're gonna get embarassed bad. *scratches balls*

Waitta sec, Im a she..


Eyrea, lvl43 bard, hib/pryd

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Originally posted by Ceeolm

Mezz is about the only decent thing that Bards can actually do in rvr. But can we really?

Castable ranged AE mez? You don't get much more powerful than that; we have very few sorcs in Alb; Mids have a similar situation with healers (though they still outnumber our sorcs). Hibs on the other hand seem to have a staggering amount of bards (every Hib group I've run into had one). Obviously if this continues Hibs will rule RvR once sufficient numbers of them start showing up; the other realms lack enough AE mez support chars to beat them

Bards also have speed song; a good number of our minstrels rarely group, for various reasons, which results in the main Alb army being forced to plod around. Dunno if the Mids are in the same boat, though, they always seem to be on speed

 

[Riddler]

Originally posted by Pathfinder


Castable ranged AE mez? You don't get much more powerful than that; we have very few sorcs in Alb; Mids have a similar situation with healers (though they still outnumber our sorcs). Hibs on the other hand seem to have a staggering amount of bards (every Hib group I've run into had one). Obviously if this continues Hibs will rule RvR once sufficient numbers of them start showing up; the other realms lack enough AE mez support chars to beat them

Bards also have speed song; a good number of our minstrels rarely group, for various reasons, which results in the main Alb army being forced to plod around. Dunno if the Mids are in the same boat, though, they always seem to be on speed

most middie rvr grps got a skald, most skalds max their battlesongs (anything else is gimp) and thus get the speed songs at the correct lvl, so any lvl 43+ middie grps u run into is most probably on the highest speed in game , MOST grps u run into tho will probably have the next highest speed buff

and yes, there is ALOT of skalds in middie

and oh, back to topic, remove all instas from a skald and he has...err...nothing? except crap hammer/sword/axe skills?

 

[Wend]

Not maxing battlesongs is certainly not gimp by any means. I would say there is no reason at all to go to 50 battlesongs, just for the last song of rest. Waste of points in my opinion.

You want to get the last speed chant at 43 though, other than that most any template without too much emphasis on parry is workable.

 

[Riddler]

Originally posted by Wend
Not maxing battlesongs is certainly not gimp by any means. I would say there is no reason at all to go to 50 battlesongs, just for the last song of rest. Waste of points in my opinion.

You want to get the last speed chant at 43 though, other than that most any template without too much emphasis on parry is workable.

yes what i meant was maxing it as long as ur planning to

and btw, not maxing until 46 IS gimp imo, 46bs gives the last dmg chant which is a must

wouldnt mind the 3 last and best resist chants tho, but hell, cant have it all

 

[Wend]

Why is the 46 chant such a big deal though? I'm asking since being a Skald I have an interest in this.

Chant of Blood adds 1.7 dps on top of Chant of War. You could skip that and get better overall melee output / less variance instead.

Currently at 46 I'm finding half of my rvr encounters I don't even switch to damage chant. The chant is nice if you need prolonged high damage output which is usually not the case in rvr skirmishes. Having said that I solo a lot an it just may not fit my playstyle well.

Occasionally in small standoffs with a lot of mezzing back and forth it's nice to have. At keep raids it's also nice, I group with Shadowblades and play the chant while they pick off archers. It's very nice in pve but to me that doesn't even factor into the decision to get it or not.

The chant doesn't seem to be nearly as important as the 44 dd. Which I'm not sure I'll get either.

 

[old.Kladen]

i think all mezzes should vary on enemie players like 30 sec mez should be 10-30 secs varation (dice roll RPG style, saves and stuff)

it should vary a bit more so while u mezz a whole group u dont know when and who will unmezz and it would be a bit better. pull healer classes shoudl get the abilitie to single target unmezz people or reduce mezz timer.

 

[Riddler]

Originally posted by Wend
Why is the 46 chant such a big deal though? I'm asking since being a Skald I have an interest in this.

Chant of Blood adds 1.7 dps on top of Chant of War. You could skip that and get better overall melee output / less variance instead.

Currently at 46 I'm finding half of my rvr encounters I don't even switch to damage chant. The chant is nice if you need prolonged high damage output which is usually not the case in rvr skirmishes. Having said that I solo a lot an it just may not fit my playstyle well.

Occasionally in small standoffs with a lot of mezzing back and forth it's nice to have. At keep raids it's also nice, I group with Shadowblades and play the chant while they pick off archers. It's very nice in pve but to me that doesn't even factor into the decision to get it or not.

The chant doesn't seem to be nearly as important as the 44 dd. Which I'm not sure I'll get either.

it matters alot

lets say on lvl 50 u have a ..hmm.. 16.3-16.5dps wpn? then u add 7,5dps to that, with both best dd's and caboom, ur a big mean killing machine

and if u grp with warriors, zerkers, etc they will of course love added 7.5dps pr hit

if u wanted that high wpn spec, why not play a warrior?

ur a skald, ur songs makes u good, not ur wpn spec

 

[gama]

If your mezzed, its like being distracted....

so shouldn't anyone getting hurt or casting any spells near you break that mez....?

and no, a healer with no mezzes woudl still be better than a shaman, healers get insta heals

 

[old.cerebus]

Stun/mezz is the worst thing about this whole game. No one person should have the ability to take another player out of the game by a simple touch of the button.

Yet again I was treated to watching my entire team get owned by some Skalds whilst I stood there watching. It's not funny, it's not fair and it's seriously making me consider spending my time playing something else.

30 odd days I've spent levelling my character only for some guy to come along and click one button, effectively ruining any chance I have of protecting my group.

It's good for Mob hunting but just unfair against enemy players.

Tanks die far to quickly in large scale RvR, in small scale RvR we get mezzed first and on one on one fights the enemy usually has long range attacks that half kill us before we get a chance to fight.

RvR these days is just pointless. Mez/Stun is a major contributor.

 

[old.chesnor]

So Cerebus, presumably removing stun also shall include the sheild stun styles from tanks ?

Hmm, tanks that can't slam....what an all round improvement that will be </sarcasm>

Stun and Mezz are part of the game, deal with it. 1.50 and RA bring lots of anti-stun/mezz tools to the disposal of every player. To completely remove those skills would mean the boards would be awash with whining healers/casters instead of whining tanks.

And while we are on the subject of whining tanks, I know you guys (mostly) think you are uber killing machines who should be able to kill everything, but see sense please. Mezz and stun is the tool healers/casters have to enable us to survive tanks. Sure until 1.50 it was overpowered, but I really believe RA and the mezz resist skills introduced balance it up a bit.