Why climate change is bollocks

[Job]

The Kyoto treaty rears it's ugly head again.

Never in the history of man has such bullshit science influenced the policys of governments by so much.
All we ever hear in the press is the pro-climate change news, cos it's far more interesting, disaster makes news, nothings gonna happen stories don't sell newspapers.
We cannot anywhere on this planet make a prediction about the weather more than 5 days ahead, without it being a wild guess, or it was this cold last year.
But when it comes to climate change suddenly we are listening to 'scientists' who claim to be able to judge world temperatures 20 yrs in advance.

These 'world is gonna end' pressure groups have campaigned so vigorously they have managed to scare governments.

We don't know if we are or aren't changing the climate and we don't know if reducing CO2 output will stop it or even make it worse.
The real joke is the treaty only ask us to go back to 1990's levels which ain't much of a drop, in fact the Ruskies have so much 'carbon credit ' in the bank it will probably go up.
There are so many factors, and a new one is found every day, to influence these simulations they run on supercomputers that the output from these calculations change all the time from warmer-colder-much warmer-much colder, but we only hear from the pressure groups when it churns out 'warmer' for that week.

 

[Lumikki]

Maybe, but the fact is if consuming the planet keeps going at this rate, and of course it will just keep growing, there won't be much left for our grandchildren.

 

[Bracken]

Yeah let's do nothing at all

We've seen an increase in global temperature in the last hundred years that previously has taken 1000s of years. It just happens to coincide with the massive increase in CO2 emissions. But of course it might be something else causing it...

 

[Binky the Bomb]

Remember, this planet has been covered in ice before, and it melted. If memory serves, C02 emissions came around about the time of the industrial revolution, about 3 million years later.

Something tells me climate change happens naturally here. Besides, were due an ice age anyway, so at least we'll have snow at christmas again (yey).

 

[Thorwyn]

So.. dead forests, polluted oceans, smog and holes in the ozone mantle are just urban myths, distributed by a bunch of retarded treehuggers?

 

[harebear]

Its Novemeber and its warm outside \o/

 

[Ethiraseth]

We just came out of a small ice age (from about 1300 until end of the 19th century, if my memory servers me right) so its no big deal that the average temperature is rising the last hunderd years. I'm not sure about the effects of industry on the warming up of the earth, it may accelerate the warming up but im not convinced it is the only reason that its happening. Just look at the Sahara desert, it used to be a forest but it changed to a desert without any human help. Climate changes happened already long before any human influence changed the earth.

 

[Binky the Bomb]

So.. dead forests, polluted oceans, smog and holes in the ozone mantle are just urban myths, distributed by a bunch of retarded treehuggers?

No there not, but the point is that climate change is happening naturally anyway. If we stop doing the above, well have a "cleaner" planet, but it still wont change the fact that the earths been getting warmer since before we learned to beat animals to death with thigh bones. In fact it's been happening since we compiled the "basics" list (I.E. Kill it, eat it, drink it, hump it, skin it, fight it).

And as for the retarded tree huggers, they can't be taken seriously, they don't even fight for what they beleive in properly. And before you say "what about animal rights activists" there only interested about the small furry creatures, i've never once heard them talk about any other enviromental issue. There pousers, nothing more.

 

[Cyfr]

Erm.. 'We don't know the weather 5 days ahead' is a hell of a lot different to calculating 20 years in advance.

I don't know exactly what i'll be doing in 5 days time but in 2 years I hope to have completed my A level's..

 

[Thorwyn]

No there not, but the point is that climate change is happening naturally anyway. If we stop doing the above, well have a "cleaner" planet, but it still wont change the fact that the earths been getting warmer since before we learned to beat animals to death with thigh bones. In fact it's been happening since we compiled the "basics" list (I.E. Kill it, eat it, drink it, hump it, skin it, fight it).

The climate change might be a natural thing, but the entire rest of the effects that are making our earth become an instable system are not. Ozone doesn´t dissapear without a reason, it has been up there for a couple million years . It´s always a cause and effect thing and the cause - in this particular case - are the exhaust fumes of human civilization, mainly FCKW (whatever it´s named in english ).
I think it´s pretty ignorant to just say "whatever, lets do nothing because we don´t know for sure if it has any effect". Sure, there are so called scientists who´re giving us horror scenarios that might be total bollocks and have nothing to do with reality. But it´s no doubt that there IS something seriously wrong with our planet. We can´t deny that and act like the three monkeys.

 

[Ormorof]

Remember, this planet has been covered in ice before, and it melted. If memory serves, C02 emissions came around about the time of the industrial revolution, about 3 million years later.

Something tells me climate change happens naturally here. Besides, were due an ice age anyway, so at least we'll have snow at christmas again (yey).

technically we are still in an ice age, during times of non-ice age almost none of the earth was covered in ice, winter or summer, in winter about 1/3 of all land is covered in ice and snow, thus an ice age

the rise in temperature might show that we are coming OUT of the last years of an ice age (of course an end to ice ages is accompanied by mass flooding putting much of the world underwater, since all that water has to go somewhere )

though i admit we have probably helped speed up the natural process through CO2 emmisions

 

[Ezteq]

right let me just say "i might be wrong" before i say anything else but i did hear on the grapevine that the earth tilts on its axis as it is orbiting the sun fractionally, so every few thousand years or whatever the earth (or different parts of it) so say the side of the earth with africa on it is closest to the sun (or facing it as it were) atm well as earth rotates this area will be moved to face in opposite direction a bit like if you hold a tennis ball near a lightbulb and twist it slowly, different parts will heat/cool according to how you rotate it....

so climate changes have been going onin this planet we call home for as long as its been in existance and spinning.... however,

all the deforestation, pollution and other crap we do to the earth wont be helping so what with the naturel climate changes and our contributions of course things are going to change, we just have to make sure we dont make it any worse cos tbh i think we screwed things up about as much as you can with out killing everyone

<hugs a tree> ooh bastard acasia thorn!!... wheres me axe??

 

[Svartmetall]

The Kyoto treaty rears it's ugly head again.

Never in the history of man has such bullshit science influenced the policys of governments by so much.
All we ever hear in the press is the pro-climate change news, cos it's far more interesting, disaster makes news, nothings gonna happen stories don't sell newspapers.
We cannot anywhere on this planet make a prediction about the weather more than 5 days ahead, without it being a wild guess, or it was this cold last year.
But when it comes to climate change suddenly we are listening to 'scientists' who claim to be able to judge world temperatures 20 yrs in advance.

These 'world is gonna end' pressure groups have campaigned so vigorously they have managed to scare governments.

We don't know if we are or aren't changing the climate and we don't know if reducing CO2 output will stop it or even make it worse.
The real joke is the treaty only ask us to go back to 1990's levels which ain't much of a drop, in fact the Ruskies have so much 'carbon credit ' in the bank it will probably go up.
There are so many factors, and a new one is found every day, to influence these simulations they run on supercomputers that the output from these calculations change all the time from warmer-colder-much warmer-much colder, but we only hear from the pressure groups when it churns out 'warmer' for that week.

Do you work for Exxon or something?

 

[Job]

No I just stuck to the old adage, NEVER BELIEVE SANYTHING YOU READ IN THE NEWSPAPERS OR SEE ON THE TELLY.

I looked into it and found there are just as many scientists who say global warming is bollocks as say it is true.

And most of the global warming camp are sponsered by enviromental groups.

The problem is that science is just as influenced as every one else by fashion, and the fashion these days is to be all green and caring, scientists who say it's shite are ostrocised by society, so loads of them have a look at the wild guess data they have, come out with 'oh my god we're ruining the planet' and they are seen as eco-heroes for blowing the whistle, nay sayers are treated like...do you work for Exxon

Global warming has descended into a 16th century witch hunt, everyones jumping on the bandwagon for fear of being labelled a witch.

If you actually look at the hard facts and throw prejudices out the window, you will see that it is complete and utter bollocks.

To this day the human race can still act in the most incredibly stupid way, because fear and pride and fashion and peer pressure influence us far more than reality.

 

[Lumikki]

No. You're wrong. As long as the CO2, Methane etc levels keep rising like they do, the atmosphere will keep heating up. The fact that is uncertains is HOW exactly it's going to affect the planet.

Saying nothing is going to happen, don't worry, is just stupid. Something will happen for sure, but who knows what? Pretty impossible to be certain.

 

[Cyfr]

Lol Job, witchhunt? People arnt gona get killed if they disagree... If someone thinks it wrong and they can prove it, then they will say so.

 

[Binky the Bomb]

I think it´s pretty ignorant to just say "whatever, lets do nothing because we don´t know for sure if it has any effect".

Er, I didn't. Unless your reading another post. All i was pointing out is that the Global warming effect is happening naturally anyway, despite our efforts to sod everything up. I do beleive in a cleaner enviroment, I realy do, but it will have to take a realy hard line approach if it's to be succesful. For ever effect that creates polution, there must be an equal or greater way of cleaning it up (or not have it in the first place).

Be be fair and honest, we only have data spreading back about 200 years at best to help us figure this out, and from what i've seen, there has been a increase to damage to the enviroment from industry. But that isn't the only thing causing problems. Housing, roads, waste management and utilities are forms of pollution in themselves. No idea what i'm typing about? Then do the following.

1. Get a map of you area now.
2. Find a map of your area about 50 years ago.
3. Find a map of your area 100 years ago.
4. Find a map of your area 150 years ago. (Check your local library for these.)
5. Compare them to each other.
6. Take a look at your local area and imagine what it would look like without all the housing and roads.

Big difference isn't it. Just a thought.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No I just stuck to the old adage, NEVER BELIEVE SANYTHING YOU READ IN THE NEWSPAPERS OR SEE ON THE TELLY.

Yeah! The real truth is in the internet!


Come on! It has free pron! It can't be wrong!

 

[Comos]

right let me just say "i might be wrong" before i say anything else but i did hear on the grapevine that the earth tilts on its axis as it is orbiting the sun fractionally, so every few thousand years or whatever the earth (or different parts of it) so say the side of the earth with africa on it is closest to the sun (or facing it as it were) atm well as earth rotates this area will be moved to face in opposite direction a bit like if you hold a tennis ball near a lightbulb and twist it slowly, different parts will heat/cool according to how you rotate it....

so climate changes have been going onin this planet we call home for as long as its been in existance and spinning.... however,

all the deforestation, pollution and other crap we do to the earth wont be helping so what with the naturel climate changes and our contributions of course things are going to change, we just have to make sure we dont make it any worse cos tbh i think we screwed things up about as much as you can with out killing everyone

<hugs a tree> ooh bastard acasia thorn!!... wheres me axe??

Yep, that's right what you say. The tilting is extremely slow and takes about 9000-10,000 years if I remember from my geography classes... That's the cause of the ice ages and thus they are ofc inevitable.
I have no idea what the stuff we let loose in the atmosphere is doing exactly, and no one prolly knows the real effects in the end. We all know ofc that it's slowly destroying the ozone layer.

edit: old.Tohtori givf another "Jeff the goa employee scene "

 

[Huntingtons]

remember discussing this in class once. Afaik the theory about CO2 Methane and such gasses ruining the ozone layer isn't completly true. They do it, but its far from as dangerous as they say. We also had Ozone Holes in the medival and further back acording to some research they made on that subject.

IIRC the methods they use to calculate the ozone layer getting affected by the gasses has no basis and is wrong :/

 

[old.Tohtori]

edit: old.Tohtori givf another "Jeff the goa employee scene "

Bypopular demand.... check the general.

 

[Naetha]

Yes the climate is changing. Climate is not a static on off thing - it is always changing. it is a huge, complex process controlled by billions of positive and negative feedback systems, so you'd expact the climate to be constantly changing.

However - the rate at which the climate is changing is much faster than any records (from radioactive dating, palynology (pollen dating) in ice cores, geomagnetic traces etc - all scientifically sound and accurate methods of recording climate changes) over the past 500 million years have shown. The fastest climate change on a global scale was the Ordovician glaciation, where about 80% of the earth was covered in ice. THis occurred over a time of approximately 35 million years, with a margin of error of about 5 million years either way.

Changes like this have happened hundreds of times in geological history, both warming and cooling, but never in less than about 30 million years. The changes that we're causing are happening not over millions, or thousands of years, but hundreds of years. We're changing the balance of key feedback mechanisms thousands of times faster than they're used to being changed. The Milankovitch cycles that affect the planet's climate run on 100ky, 41 ky and 19-21ky cycles, so again we're talking thousands of years rather than three hundred, or even fifty.

By significantly changing the balance of carbon in the atmosphere (which is the main driver for climate change) we are tinkering with a mechanism that we have very little understanding of. This combined with the other things we're doing, such as releasing excessive amounts of methane, aerosols and chemical components into the atmosphere WILL change our climate in the near future if left unchecked.

Thats the geological aspect of it - however there's also the social aspect of sustainability. The fossil fuel reserves that we're using will most likely be gone within a hundred years, and probably within 50 years if we continue at our current rate of consumption - this is not sustainable, and as with all un-sustainable developments, will lead to a crash of some kind.

Climate change and sustainable developments are a very important issue, as you'll find in any reputable scientific journal, and they're likely to becomea more significant part of our lives until that crunch point where our actions for the past years drasically impinge on our way of life.

 

[Lumikki]

remember discussing this in class once. Afaik the theory about CO2 Methane and such gasses ruining the ozone layer isn't completly true. They do it, but its far from as dangerous as they say. We also had Ozone Holes in the medival and further back acording to some research they made on that subject.

IIRC the methods they use to calculate the ozone layer getting affected by the gasses has no basis and is wrong :/

That's not the point with CO2 and methane. Heat radiation from the sun passes through the atmosphere at a certain wave lenght (width?). When it hits the ground, it bounces back up, but the wave lenght changes. CO2, methane and other "greenhouse" gases form a layer at some level of the atmosphere which just happens to block a part of the heat radioation from bouncing back to space from earth. Which of course means, that more and more heat gets "stuck" here = slow but steady global warming. What ever the global effect may be, is hard to say. Some speculate that the areas near the equador will keep drying up and deserting (disaster for food production) and even that the "pump" of golf stream is speculated on depleting in the next 20 or so years, meaning we here in the north are fucked.

 

[Frosen]

The Kyoto treaty rears it's ugly head again.

Never in the history of man has such bullshit science influenced the policys of governments by so much.
All we ever hear in the press is the pro-climate change news, cos it's far more interesting, disaster makes news, nothings gonna happen stories don't sell newspapers.
We cannot anywhere on this planet make a prediction about the weather more than 5 days ahead, without it being a wild guess, or it was this cold last year.
But when it comes to climate change suddenly we are listening to 'scientists' who claim to be able to judge world temperatures 20 yrs in advance.

These 'world is gonna end' pressure groups have campaigned so vigorously they have managed to scare governments.

We don't know if we are or aren't changing the climate and we don't know if reducing CO2 output will stop it or even make it worse.
The real joke is the treaty only ask us to go back to 1990's levels which ain't much of a drop, in fact the Ruskies have so much 'carbon credit ' in the bank it will probably go up.
There are so many factors, and a new one is found every day, to influence these simulations they run on supercomputers that the output from these calculations change all the time from warmer-colder-much warmer-much colder, but we only hear from the pressure groups when it churns out 'warmer' for that week.

Omg m8 you know they do stuff like drilling holes into the permanent ice on the poles ? There they can analyse the bubbels of air wich are in fact a complete history of how the climate was back then.
Now if you know that you know they can go a waaay long back by drilling miles deep into the ice and thus they can messure if the climate changes have ever been so drastic/fast.
Ofcourse it can be that this only happens in verry verry rare occasions but they do know that the climate hasn't changed this fast before, its been hotter and its been colder yes but don't give me crap about we not making any difference to the climate m8 cause thats just beeing blind/ignorant.
Ok the amount of carbon dioxide we puch in the air isn't much compared to a major volcanic eruption, but we are pumping chemicals in the ocean every day for years on end, and they are mesuring levels of chemicals (wish are only known to be produced by humans) in fish deep in our sees i wonder where those come from.
So again plz don't post stuff like this.

 

[Lumikki]

Slightly off topic, just heard a disturbing piece of news today about lower atmosphere ozone, which is a real problem in major cities. Some studies made show that in New York, around 2000 people die yearly because of the heart/lung problems lower atmosphere ozone creates. Cars, factories etc are the cause of this problem. Thank god I don't live in a major city.

 

[Rookiescot]

I once saw a TV report which said that the hole in the ozone over the north pole was caused by industrial emmisions.
However this couldnt explain the hole in the ozone over the southern pole as the southern hemesphere has nowhere near the industrialisation of the north.
But then the guy cleared up the mystery for us.
It seems the hole in the south is caused by cows farting.
So unless the Kyoto treaty has some cunning and devious method for stopping cows farting it aint gonna help.
Wonder if cows are now conidered the most dangerous animal on earth?

 

[Lumikki]

Hah, one smart scientist.

Cow poop has enough methane in it that you can build a bomb from it. Scary.

 

[Job]

Link from one of the climate change debunking sites, it's an actual article from the 1970's when 'scientists' were convinced, using all the 'latest' technology to measure things that we were heading for a 2nd iceage.

http://www.globalclimate.org/Newsweek.htm

It's the exact same bullshit guesses wrtten back then except it's the other way round.