Why are thanes = gimp?

[Thg Gork]

I wounder why people say thanes are gimp we do moore dmg than wariors skalds and zerkers too with only self buffs accounted for i win every duel i do (wery few that have beaten me and i have beaten all of them ) I solo red and purp with out buffs accept my own. Wery seldom do a purp mob win over me. Most of the time i can solo 2 yellow tanks (alb ) at the same time and still have life left to kill some more. So why are thanes gimp in 1.59 we get repeatable lightning single target wich i think have been a big problem for us thats why some thanes use there area hammer when they shouldent cant blame them because it looks so cool And i try to use it as often as i get oppertunity to but sadly cant say that it happens often. I know there isent many classes or players that can solo purp mobs so i dount get how could thanes be gimps. The only problem with thanes i can think of is the low health bar wich makes us wery vunerable against casters who can kill us fast but we get avoidence of magic to. If we would get ip at same cost as zerks warriors we would be with out doubt the best tank klass in midgard. Shure i am equipped with the best itemz possible but wery many have sc armour now days so the small diffrence between them and me in stats are moore in cold heat resistens or one of those stats. That only way in when casters are involved. So please tell me why are thanes gimp in next patch we get some moore con to wich will raise our hp a little.

Cant think of a better class sin next patch to have as a healer guard he can defend the healer with guard and slam and if no need for slam stay close to her and every 2.5 sec hit a enemy with 200+ dmg with his repeatable single lightning on an enemy that needs some help dieng.

Please dount say anything lame about bragging im just stating the facts what i can do so people can understand that beeing a thane is not = gimp. I for shure would like to see more troll thanes out there.

 

[Archeon]

Its a generalisation i think more than anything. Yeah after the patch with the ST lightning thing i'l definatly want a thane keeping my ass polearm free

The thing with the rouge HP tables has always puzzled me, seems to me a tank is a tank. Mythic should really consider moving you guys up to seer HP tables, as for the str/con buff i'm not sure thats somthing to be overly... Hmm... well i guess the only word i can think of is proud. Let me show you how i think on this...


At the moment the thane self str buffs are (At 50SC, i might be wrong in thinking most thanes have this one) gives... well 50 value str (i'm not sure if your self buff gets a 125% bonus for being 2/3 spec or whatever it is, but there you go its high)

Compared to the seer baseline buff which gives 44. Now, thats a difference the self str is better than the baseline str healers have so that means i don't have to waste conc giving you one...

Ok, now look at when you have a str/con buff. As an average lets say that the majority of shamans have 32aug for the 1st group end (i know this is another generalisation, my own shammy only has 28 and its staying there )

Now that gives a str/con buff value of... 45 and the thane str/con at 50sc gives.... Oh ffs, why isn't it listen on the camelot herald?

Well anyway, i can't provide numbers to back this up and this is what i've heard from various people. but supposedly the thane str/con self buff is much weaker than the shammy str/con...


Actually when i think about it my self str/con at 28 aug gives 48+ to my str/con... Hmmm.... you know i should probably think before i shoot off my mouth... oh well i went to all the trouble to look up those numbers so i'l post this anyway if sombody could just fill in the gaps i'd appreciate it.

Actually i'm inspired now, i think i'l go roll a thane

 

[Carlos Bananos]

at start of daoc, thanes always cast mjollner, before, after and dueing healers mezzing

It generalised from there.

 

[redknapp]

If you really want the answer to your question, you should go post it on the tri-realm boards, such as general discussion.
The folk who kill the Thane are the ones that say they are gimps. Basically though, i think its a combination of a fairly useless casting line if in a FG, the AE hammers thing, and the low HP.

I agree that once the DD is taken off the timer, Thanes will take on a slightly enhanced role in RvR, as they will be able to stand back and selectively nuke, but they will still be lacking in durability IMHO.

On the other hand, if PvE is your thing Thanes do better than most.

 

[Urme the Legend]

Thg I want to duel you before the next patch please

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Heres my thoughts:

Cons
1) Rogue HP tables - for a chain wearer thats grim.
2) Shammy buffs are better, bot DMG add and str-con, another reason for ppl to have bots ffs, self buffs IMO should be better.
3) Going 50 SC takes the str-con over cap therefore useless.
4) Epic armour blows goats (looks like dungarees fs), it lacks piety too, something we eat like no other.
5) Mjolliner upsets ppl like no other (unless you know how to use it) and has tajen 10 patches to get any decent dmg out of it!
6) Unlike any other caster, DEX does not affect cast time, so our casts are too easily broken by mezzers, nukers, DOTers or ticklers.
7) probably the worst RA in the game - Static tempest, 30 min timer, 350 radius 3 second stun every 7 seconds - total shat!
8) Our GTAoE spell blows, really low dmg, easy resisted by +energy.

Pros
1) We out damage most classes.
2) Good in sheild and parry specs. Ideal slambot or casters guard.
3) Our insta castable is ideal for cast breaking, although timing is the key, usually used halfway though casting a major spell.
4) Mjolliner can be used to pull agro off everyone else in the group, often saving many lives for value of 1.

IMO, great fun to play, although they rely heavily on support classes for POM, speed etc. Despite the things i call cons, they are not really gimped, in fact they are probaly one of the most balanced chars in game, nothing over the top, nothing too bad you cant survive a decent battle.

As someone has already said, Mjolliner is whats given the Thane a bad name, but eventually ppl learn how to use it properly.

 

[stunned]

'' Mjolnir You give Thanes a bad name bad name""

 

[optical-]

Only gimped melee class in Midgard is the skald.

 

[katt!]

imho its the hp. thanes die so fast (or did before str/con at least).

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Originally posted by katt!
imho its the hp. thanes die so fast (or did before str/con at least).

Compared to??

Higher Hp than most casters, better armour than rogues....middle of the table tbh, stands to reason being a hybrid.

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Originally posted by optical-
Only gimped melee class in Midgard is the skald.

true, again tho your a hybrid like Thanes, you get speed(grp), insta DDs, dmg add(grp), health regen(grp) and mezz, trade you any day (says the thane who wishes he rolled skald instead).

 

[Thorarin]

Along with what was mentioned above..

Thanes are the only hybrid class in the game that don't get Evade I, unless you want to count Wardens with pbt..

It may not be much, but it's still 5% effective extra HP in any melee fight.

With the increased damage of Warriors, Thanes don't outdamage them anymore, at least not effectively.

Thane self-damage add is better than the shaman one and better than the Runemaster one, but it's currently capped by the anti-powerlevelling code that restricts damage adds on low level characters. This effectively lowers the damage add by 1/3 according to the TL report.

Thanes do not get MCL or Wild Arcana, like all other hybrid classes.

Until 1.59 there is no recastable single target DD, which limits RvR usage to instants only most of the time.

In 1.59 and up: The Str/Con buff is now a dual stat buff, but it has single-line buff values, which makes it useless is the presence of a shaman.


There are other things, but this will do
Basically right now it's a class that's less sturdy than a Warrior, does less damage against yellow cons and can barely use the advantages it gets over the alternative class.

Thg: If you're duelling Warriors of more or less the same RR and you're winning, the Warrior is probably watching TV during the duel or just doesn't know how to duel.

I duelled my girlfriend's warrior plenty of times, it used to be 50-50 until I gave her some tips. Now it's more like 90-10 chances for her.

 

[etcetra]

Ive seen Thg in action and its impressive
He's one of the best PvE Thanes i have ever seen, havent seen him that much in Emain thoug, cept for in DF at alb ent, where we have killed loads, loadsa times ; - ]

btw, i soloed an umbrood!! ;]

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Thorarin is dead right, I admit i hadnt considered the caster RA's were missing, seems the hybrid thing is taken a little too far by Mythic, c'est la vie.

To date Ive dueled 2 hunters, 3 skalds, 1 warrior, 1 runemaster, 1 beserker and a shammy, the only one with a lower RR was the shammy, the only one to beat me the zerker, even the slam warrior didnt even come close. The RM got me down on his range, but my insta stopped his spell casting and Mjol did the rest, shame he used his QC for a root, even though i was already close enough for a good nuke.

As i would say to anyone looking to critisise a char type, roll one, especially in the case of a thane, see how your mind soon changes.

BTW, after nearly a year, i finally managed to solo Willey near huginfell.

 

[domin8or]

I wounder why people say thanes are gimp we do moore dmg than wariors skalds and zerkers too with only self buffs accounted for i win every duel i do (wery few that have beaten me and i have beaten all of them

HAHAHAHAHA, haven't laughed so much for years. Sure you can maybe outdamage warriors and skalds but not zerkers. Maybe you could outdamage a green zerker if you're lucky. I'd also like to see try duel Sub or Poon and see how that goes.

I solo red and purp with out buffs accept my own.

Sure, I'd like to see that before I can believe that. Very unlikely. maybe extremely low, low purple but not Nightmares in DF who can Evade and two-hit.

200+ dmg with his repeatable single lightning on an enemy that needs some help dieng.

Doubt that high damage

I'd also say warriors have better defense especially if Thanes spec shield then they need to spec main weapon, stormcalling, parry and shield.

 

[marach]

When i first started to play daoc i started a Thane cause i liked the idea and i thought it looked cool whit all that lightning and stuff then i found myself missing the blue/yellow target over and over again (this was over a year ago) and i thought it was most gimped class id even seen hehe.

Anyway whit my sb, i take down most thanes i even took down the high rr Monty thane once :>

/whine on

Well you started the subjekt so i just have to write this

1. I respecced to SZ at lvl 50 so havent tried it at lower lvls.

BUT atleast at 50 i outdamage and take agro from most thanes/warriors/skalds when neither of us is using taunt. I know the hp drops pretty fast and the evade dosent get good b4 l8r but anyhow.. Think sb is very underestimated in PvE. Same goes for hunter in this patch, spear hunter that is.

/whine off

All in all i think thanes aint that gimped as many says so but i also think many says it for fun. Know i do ;> Yet some of thoose n00b thanes whit Mjolliner YiHAA is very, very laim and have given thane a bad name for sure.

 

[Giga]

dont forgot to say whot RR you got, and if you have SC'et armor.
all i have to say

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Originally posted by domin8or

200+ dmg with his repeatable single lightning on an enemy that needs some help dieng.

Doubt that high damage

I'd also say warriors have better defense especially if Thanes spec shield then they need to spec main weapon, stormcalling, parry and shield.

Hate to say this odl pal, but hes right, since we got some luving in 1.54, we can do 200+ dmg, in fact my record has been 325 against a level 50 wizz with our single cast DD (soon to be recastable), on yellow con tempters i average abour 250-300 in fact, and 90-160 on the single insta. Mjolliner can also do some more serious damage.

Energy is one of the resists ppl do not tend to take seriously, as not many thanes are met in RvR, so we benefit from that.

As for the defence, yes we lack in that respect, sacrificing high parry and sheild specs for SC. However, with a sheild equiped, we do our bit. Having served my time in Lair, i always seemed to outgun and out agro warriors, thanes always seem to be able to taunt better, even with the same weapons, maybe thats just my view, but I think you underestimate Thanes truely.

Again, as said before, if you doubt it, roll one.

As for soloing reds, just about possible to do with self buffs alone, well along with IP etc. We lack the HP to go the distance, and eat mana and endurance badly, and most umbroods ive been against resist energy like mad, so i feel a degree of doubt there.

This thread asked why we are considered gimps, and not as a comparison to other classes, comparing to a warrior for example is bad as i could nuke the crap out of you at range, but close combat in mellee youd own me. All classes can out gun each other some way or another, its just how you use the char.

 

[old.Leel]

Thg is R5L4 and most surely has all MP armor and weapons as he's a legendary armorcrafter himself. I think he's got ablative dot proc on just about every armor piece too. I've seen him in action and he pwnz.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Whoodoo_RD
Energy is one of the resists ppl do not tend to take seriously, as not many thanes are met in RvR, so we benefit from that.

Errrr... Energy is one of the resists that any sane person (for any realm) takes VERY seriously. It's not just Thanes that use Energy, you know?


Alb:
Sorcerer - Mezz

Hib:
Eldritch - DD, PBAE, GTAE, damage shield, debuffs and disease
Enchanter - PBAE, damage shield and debuffs
Mentalist - DoT, Mezz and damage shield
Animist - Lifetap and damage shield
Valewalker - Lifetap and damage shield

Mid:
Runemaster - DDs, Bolts, GTAE.
Thane - DD, etc.

 

[Sol-]

isnt enchanter DD heat.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Sol-
isnt enchanter DD heat.

Yup, small error... Anyways, I think the chanter PBAE is enough Energy damage for Alb and Mid to cap resist anyway

 

[Sol-]

 

[Armalite]

Originally posted by Whoodoo_RD
true, again tho your a hybrid like Thanes, you get speed(grp), insta DDs, dmg add(grp), health regen(grp) and mezz, trade you any day (says the thane who wishes he rolled skald instead).

Speed = Bugged, pulse drop every 6s or 9s (abit random), so invaders with bard, mincer will catch up on us. Also, speed is lost for whole grp if a member of the grp engange in combat.

Insta DDs = Uses up half powerbar and endurance bar; You don't get to use them again before you are dead. Will use less power in next patch, don't know if they will use less end.

Dmg add = As with speed chant, this one also loose pulse every 6s or 9s (random). Also nerfed after last patch (thanes dmg add also). Nevertheless, a very good chant for a group with meleers.

Health regen = As with speed/dmg chant, looses pulse. The hits regened are a joke, allthou made better in next patch, it's nothing more than a downtime reducer.

Mezz = A very good tool, allthou you are usually dead or mezzed yourself before you get close enaugh to use it.

Snare = Usuefull for targets running away, allthou, using it will drop your speed chant, and the enemy you are hunting will often get away. I use it mostly for interupting casters.


Bard & Minstrel don't have the problems pulse in their chants.

 

[marach]

Giga: at the time i did most of my duels i was RR4l4 and was using epic armor. Ofcurse i would get my ass kicked if i faced someone using SC armor but in epic vs epic....

 

[-ElemenT-]

Well,

Imo Thane's aren't that bad, with the shieldspec u can make ur Thane very good, I got 42+12 Shield, MoB II and 134 dex atm without SC and I block pretty much everything against orange.
With buffs can solo upto highlvl purps (those hulks near Legion).

The problem is those hitpoints indeed, having only 1444 hp against aprox 1700hp a Warrior can have, or a Armsman.. Thane is a bit gimped but if u meet anyone solo, u mostly get the tank on same hp with ur DD's.

The 'Mjollnir' is overated since allmost nobody (some do but not many) use it in RvR, I don't have it on main QB, only on PvE bar since u can't use it on many occasions.

Anyway, made a skald and I luv that one allso, hits like a truck with his 100% qual axe and the hitpoints are a bit better then the Thane atm since I did 10CON instead of 5.

 

[etcetra]

Originally posted by marach
When i first started to play daoc i started a Thane cause i liked the idea and i thought it looked cool whit all that lightning and stuff then i found myself missing the blue/yellow target over and over again (this was over a year ago) and i thought it was most gimped class id even seen hehe.

Anyway whit my sb, i take down most thanes i even took down the high rr Monty thane once :>

/whine on

Well you started the subjekt so i just have to write this

1. I respecced to SZ at lvl 50 so havent tried it at lower lvls.

BUT atleast at 50 i outdamage and take agro from most thanes/warriors/skalds when neither of us is using taunt. I know the hp drops pretty fast and the evade dosent get good b4 l8r but anyhow.. Think sb is very underestimated in PvE. Same goes for hunter in this patch, spear hunter that is.

/whine off

All in all i think thanes aint that gimped as many says so but i also think many says it for fun. Know i do ;> Yet some of thoose n00b thanes whit Mjolliner YiHAA is very, very laim and have given thane a bad name for sure.

Theres something called an 'enchanter' whoms gives a bonus to your weapon, you should try n' give a weapon to him and see what happens.

 

[marach]

ehm.. realy i never knew give your self a medal brainiack..

 

[old.Kapteeni]

Self str/con wont make thanes any better unless you like to solo with own buffs, 90% of the time you group you get conc based str/con that is better than self one if not specced HIGH sc. lvl 50 shammy can buff everyone in group with str/con(lvl36) and dex/qui(lvl37) +few baselines and/of aucity, most grp's have healer to give baselines. Id consider that buff a bit useless unless you solo and dont use bot(Pevia is not a fecking bot) because most grp's got healer and shammy that can buff whole grp with all buffs.

Small increse to hp, like 15-20%, wouldnt hurt anyone.

There was a link to vn boards, to a thread with some well thought out sugestions that might make Thanes slightly better. Cant find that url rignt now.

 

[froler-mid]

ive played a thane for 60+days before i joined the darkside(read alb)

thanes got nothing for the group(i was 2h before respec...)

we got AE on no timer, a GIMP SC line. a GIMP hp (most assasins had more hp....)


I belive my saracen infil got more hp's buffed then my thane(rlm pts RA's etc)..

Thane epic sucked, gfx and stats. ofc all this changed with SC.

We got a v sucky unique RA( ok, who doesnt in mid....)


only good thing i had was a insta(too interupt casters) on a kinda ok range(15sec recast or sum) and the dmg add is ok i guess.


they compare thanes too pally and champions.
prepatches id say; champ> thane > pally

now; champ> pally> thane


id like too see some kinda snare spell, or just something for those guys who actually runs from thanes.....

determination for hybrids would rock.


the timer on the single dmg spell will help. str/con buff....well ok..helps when u solo i guess....
All hybrids in daoc need some major fixes imo.


if u wanna slam and tank , be a warrior
if u wanna cast spells and do dmg, be a caster

if u wanna gimp yourself and do both, be a thane.


i will never play my thane again. Nothing will help this class atm.