why are Albs so selfish

[Balbor]

Why is it everytime i ask people about specing a class i get told you have to do this or no one will group with you, or you won't be able to level if you spec that way. When i ask about wizards i get told to spec fire, when i ask about thrgys i get told to get PBT and as for cleric you have to be a buffr or hearer (although all cleric know that if your in the situation were you have to use the group instent heal then your probably gonna die if you do). We should be encouraging people not to always spec there characters the same or soon we'll end up with a load of Wizard, cleric and thurgy clones. Now that all classes can get free instent incombat heals will healing cleric really be that importaint when all that will matter is if they have bunker of faith.

 

[Turamber]

I guess in PvE a certain amount of healing comes in handy

Groups will always choose classes that they need to hunt whichever mob is on their menu for the evening ... and they will prefer certain of those classes to be specced a certain way.

Of course an almost pure smite cleric could do a lot of damage to a mob, thus taking the job of, say, a caster or an infiltrator. But that requires a bit of balancing on the part of the group ... and often people are a bit lazy. Or they have limited options available to do that balancing with.

Certainly don't think it has anything to do with selfishness as you call it, or with Albion -- people are people whatever realm they play in.

People make certain assumptions about various classes -- (i) that clerics can & will heal; (ii) that theurgists have bladeturns & (iii) that wizards can nuke ... for the most part people don't know how to deal with pbaoe and ice wizzies. There are probably other assumptions too, but those spring to mind.

Maybe one could level one of those characters in the bog standard way and then look to respec in the next patch? Would be nice to have more ice wizzies in RvR, and to see more air theurgists shaking the funky thang.

 

[old.Kladen]

trying asking people abotu classes that aint that class then. you might get a better response

 

[Wicoa]

Wizards can go full ice, fire or earth till 40's then throw some points into a secondary line. Sometimes you will have to solo and if you have split you're spec then generally you will have difficulty in killing anything. This is due to the same level ability being able to damage a mob you're level.

If a theurg doesnt have pbt then grouping would be hard, but most theurgies I know are very interesting and split into all 3 lines to get the most from each of them. Only a few I know are all one line.

The fact is that grouping will help you to get higher levels and at 40+ if you dont have groups and have to solo you will probably not hit the big 50 till about next christmas and thats with regualr playing. If you're a wiz that has split his spec then green mobs will be you're target so I give you to christmas 2004 hehe.

Talk to lots of people not just one advisor, most level 50 advisors will answer you're questions in a different way, or discuss things differently.

Also its not just albs that are like this, every realm tends to shun classes that aren't of use in pve. This is a social game some people will gear themselves towards grouping with people who are of use to them to gain the best or optimum xp.

Good Luck

 

[Bodzilla]

PvE certain specs will make your leveling a great deal easier, and help your group too.

I'm a polearmsman, and use sword+shield in PvE so that i take less damage, can guard somoene else, and swing faster (then with pole) = easier to get aggro back from a healer/caster.

Smite clerics are fine to group with, they can nuke all they want, just aslong as they heal if someone needs it, 99% of theurgists have pbt too, as it helps the group immensely.

Main Roles for Albion classes :
Armsman/Paladin/Mercenary : Take the hits from mobs
Wizard : Dish damage
Sorcerer : Mez
Theurgist : PBT+buff (poor pets)
Cleric/Friar : Heal+buff
Infiltrator/Scout : Large physical damage
Minstrel : Backup mez + lesser downtime
Cabalist : Fuck knows what they should do in a group

As long as the classes can do those, then they are fine to do something else too. Sorc/Theurg/Cabalist/Cleric can nuke, Friar/Merc/Paladin/Armsmen/Minstrel can (try to) hit hard, or do something else with abilities they have.

 

[Arlone]

Originally posted by Bodzilla
Main Roles for Albion classes :
Armsman/Paladin/Mercenary : Take the hits from mobs
Wizard : Dish damage
Sorcerer : Mez
Theurgist : PBT+buff (poor pets)
Cleric/Friar : Heal+buff
Infiltrator/Scout : Large physical damage
Minstrel : Backup mez + lesser downtime
Cabalist : Fuck knows what they should do in a group

Armsman/paladin/merc: take hits, protect casters and healers
Wizard: well, damage and buffs I guess
Sorc: Mezz, Debuffs, decent nukes (they can also get a wicked DoT if specced for it)
Theu: PBT, buffs, nukes, debuffs and decent mezz
Inf/scout: scout with 42 shield makes a gread guard and infs deal out fast damage and can debuff, poison mobs
Minstrel: mezz, stun, DD's, less downtime for mages and healers and some damage with sword. Most minnies are far too lazy in groups
Cabalist: dunno a whole lot about this class but I would guess they got some debuffs and I know they have a wicked DoT

Classes can do far more things than you listed above if they would jsut specc a bit diffrantly. and agree with original poster - try and get as many highlevels as possible from each speccline.

 

[Chole]

Dont see how you can say Albs being Selfish just because they tell you what spec in a class is most likely to get you a grp (Id hate to think how much longer it would of taken me to lvl if I didnt have PBT)
And when I was makeing the char I had no idea on what spec to go, and a kind person named Feryl (no longer plays DAOC as far as I know) gave me much advice, and from that I went down the Earth root, now that Im lvl 50, and major Earth specd, I wish I had chosen one of the other paths (would prefer to be doing more dmg, rather then be a walking/talking liveing shield for grps) but thats how it goes, no Selfishness on any part of an Alb

Infact Id say alot of Albs are helpfull, generous people, so to all you Albs out there, heres some loveing <Blows you all a Kiss>

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Arlone
Minstrel: mezz, stun, DD's, less downtime for mages and healers and some damage with sword. Most minnies are far too lazy in groups

Rubbish we just get moaned at if powersong isn't on all the time so the group can chain pull. And stuns and DDs go through power like oprah at a buffet... You have to spend most of your time sat down with ps to keep power up at all.

 

[Arlone]

Originally posted by Dannyn

Rubbish we just get moaned at if powersong isn't on all the time so the group can chain pull. And stuns and DDs go through power like oprah at a buffet... You have to spend most of your time sat down with ps to keep power up at all.

Pfft, our guildminnie (Umilard) really shows us that most other minstrels I've grouped with are doing FAR too little when things get hot. Some may just sit there playing powersong while being AFK or whatever, but what most seem to forget is that DD's + stun (stun really makes a big diffrance) is still very possible to shout when playing powersong. also a quickchange to flute for a mezz once needed is nice too

So what if you run out of power, so do most casters and they regen much slower than you

I say MORE WORK FOR THE minnies!

<runs and hide>

 

[Balbor]

aout Cabalist

looking at the Cabalist spell list on daoc.catacombs.com the have some very powerfull DOT, a very nice Damage Shield for there pet (L40 matter its 27.0 dps). and a aoe snare. I can see a good tatict to use there, send pet in with damage shield on, get a few mobs on him, wait till pet is down to abot 20% then cast snear on them all followed by a aoeDoT and run. I think one of the level 50 Cabalists did that to a tangler group.

Also clerics and air thurgys gonna love those Hinder Spirit Resist Shouts in 1.53

 

[wyleia]

Cabalists have the pulling range of scouts (2300 range on nearsite) so they are good for that.. also I cannot TELL you how many times Diseased saved our butts out at tanglers while we were xping in a guild grp.. cabalists can do some healing.. course it will kill them if they do too much, but the little he could do really helped when you know what hit the fan a few times

Sorcs got pets to use, mezz to use, root to use, WONDERFUIL debuffs including fire/ice/air/matter, amnesia to use and befuddlement to use (oh an we can nuke too
(you should read my sorc guide, its helpful even if you are not a sorc, it lets you know what sorcs can do. Found at http://www.the30.co.uk)

infils i think should be grped with wizards, as they are big dmg dealers, not tanks, more like casters imo, just can take a few more hits than us casters (just make sure your infil acts like a caster and doesnt pull aggro onto himself all the time bydoing too much dmg too soon )

And ffs let the person with the shield tank (find that saracen pally with the mega dex and shield spec they are wonderful

anways those are my additions to this thread )

Wyleia Mythweaver
50th Sorc of The 30
http://www.the30.co.uk

 

[DocWolfe]

btw with the cabs dmg sheild, once you cast it; you cannot move or cast anything else or the sheild breaks. and pallies cant have "mega" dex coz they dont get any points in it when they level

 

[Zogoroth]

Spec for grouping, Cleric = Heal, Theurg = PBT........
then at 50 u just respec to whatever u wanna have

 

[cruhar]

Originally posted by old.Docwolfe
btw with the cabs dmg sheild, once you cast it; you cannot move or cast anything else or the sheild breaks. and pallies cant have "mega" dex coz they dont get any points in it when they level

Well, since im playing a gimped pala anyway, im spending my RA on dex, MoB and MoP! (Master of Blocking & Master of Parry)

Im level 38 (well almost) and my spec is:
Slash: 18+2
Chants: 37
Shield: 25+2
Parry: 17+5

My final spec is going to be:
Slash: 21
Chants: 48
Shield: 42
Parry: 36

as you can see this is a very defensive palaspec.
the one i love to group with is an Infil since i dont do much damage anyway .. we work like this

He pulls, I take aggro, I twist chants and being a wall, Infil kills it..
Killing reds and oranges with 90%+ health and no downtime ...

if we should run low on health we just take some yellow or orange and my health is full again.

When soloing I kill orange myself ... takes ages to kill it, but no fear of death, if I need health I find some social blues or single yellow and let my health-chant heal me.

In a combatsituation agains blue or yellow mobs I block/parry like 90% of the time ... had several battles where I wasnt even hit!

When I started this pala and asked for advice i was told that I would really regret this spec, noone wanted me in groups etc. etc.

Normally I group with Shafter, a member of LoE, and a really awesome infil ... </wave at Shafter> or Agata, not guilded (bah... join merlin's kin

anyways back to the point ... Dex isnt the biggest problem ... it depends on your spec really ... like everything else ... and aslong your char can solo greens and not being a cleric/healer there is no problem!

 

[Sandariel ^^]

Whenever someone asks me for advice how to spec his wizzie I tell them two things:
1) Full spec one line, either Ice or Fire
2) If you want earth, respec to it later and start out with ice/fire, because it's a lot easier to lvl this way, why does that make me selfish?
Especially since Earth is kinda gimped atm (no spec or baseDDs except an AE-nuke ), will get better in the upcoming patches, yes, but you can always respec to Earth later

And when Clerics tell ppl to go either for enhancement or Rejuvenation, why is that selfish with upcoming Smitenerfs?

It's what I'd call "good advice"

 

[minstrel_kyra]

Originally posted by Arlone


Pfft, our guildminnie (Umilard) really shows us that most other minstrels I've grouped with are doing FAR too little when things get hot. Some may just sit there playing powersong while being AFK or whatever, but what most seem to forget is that DD's + stun (stun really makes a big diffrance) is still very possible to shout when playing powersong. also a quickchange to flute for a mezz once needed is nice too

So what if you run out of power, so do most casters and they regen much slower than you

I say MORE WORK FOR THE minnies!

<runs and hide>

I think it just depends on what the group really wants tbh.

When I was leveling up, very rarely was i told to just play power song during hunts. Then again, most people I hunted with knew I am a wannabe armswoman (heh) and so they humor me and let me jump in with my awesome slashing action then after that round its.. sit down and play mana kyra... So i do

While I don't necessarily approve of minstrels who do nothing but play mana and hardly mess their blade or armor, it really is up to the group. If that's not what you want, then say so. We get specing in slash/thrust for a reason. We aren't tanks, but (most) of us can win against solo yellow mobs.

I think what bothers me the most is I like to be an involved person in the group, not just sit in the corner. Plus that encourages afk leveling which can be dangerous if the group get into trouble. Sorcs and theurs can't take a hit, I can

I must have worn out 5 flutes from mezzing those damn trees in Lyon, which is one reason you don't see me out there anymore lol!

The point is this... some characters are meant for one thing or another and that is it. Then there are others that can help in so many ways since we are diverse. Just think about what it is you want from a potential group or group mate and then tell them so there is no misunderstandings.

dd's aren't so rough on the mana but stun sure does. (that was a funny one, dannyn!)

I know that Arlone's comment's weren't directed specifically at me so I am not at all offended. I only wanted to give my point of view for the rest of you who don't know what minstrels are truly capable of.

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by cruhar
My final spec is going to be:
Slash: 21
Chants: 48
Shield: 42
Parry: 36

Would advise you to rethink this spec, with slash that low you'll need to bore the enemy to death

 

[SoulFly Amarok]

ATleast lower parry to get the amethyst slash -_-

 

[Bodzilla]

Originally posted by Arlone


Classes can do far more things than you listed above if they would jsut specc a bit diffrantly. and agree with original poster - try and get as many highlevels as possible from each speccline.

Like i said, Main Role, of course they can do other things, i use my polearm when im allowed to, and i let smite clerics smite when no healing needed
others can DoT/DD/mez/stun etc..

 

[fatgit]

Now that all classes can get free instent incombat heals will healing cleric really be that importaint

dunno where you get that idea, I know for certain cabbies dont get any RA's to instaheal. Sure, could use a BP item, but the cost- ouch!

Why is it everytime i ask people about specing a class i get told you have to do this or no one will group with you, or you won't be able to level if you spec that way.

You have to remember, DAoC is group based, but some classes/spec line do not really have anything to offer a group balance.
It all comes down to whether you want to be grouped nonstop, or if you don't mind soloing most of the time.
If you are prepared to work your arse off and level slower than others, you dont need to go for the groupable lines/classes.
If someone asks me how to spec a cabalist, I always find out how they WANT to play first, before offering advice

We should be encouraging people not to always spec there characters the same or soon we'll end up with a load of Wizard, cleric and thurgy clones

Thats true, although there are always people that will go for what other people call "gimp spec" and prove everyone wrong

Cabalist : Fuck knows what they should do in a group

pets (not as gimped as people think. at level 50, sappy can tank most oranges, and he's level 44 - show me a level 44 tank that can solo a level 55 mob )
Str & Dex debuffs (these make a big difference on mobs that take a while to kill)
Single target root (and tanks - MOBS STILL HIT WHEN ROOTED FFS! ) - on an average pull, I can root 3-5 mobs if enough distance
DoT(base and matter spec) and AoE DoT (matter spec) (that gets aggro off a cleric pretty often )
Disease & AoE Disease (body spec)
Lifedrain DD (tops up cabby hp - base and body spec versions)
Pet Shield - not often used in group pve as its only any use when pet has aggro. This HURTS mobs. While on, cabby cant move or cast anything else. A level 50 cabby with 41 matter shield on pet can take LB epics with a cleric or 2 healing the pet
Nearsight (matter spec) - up to 65% range debuff, also excellent for pulling
Life Transfer - heal others by giving them some of our health (body spec)
Various pet buffs (one baseline, other spec in spirit)
Pet reclaim (spirit) - we can use this to create our own pow
AoE Snare (28 spirit+ never seen this in action)
Body, spirit & energy debuffs (spirit spec)

Cabby is a jack of all trades, which makes em pretty versatile

Hope that answers that question

 

[Addlcove]

Originally posted by Turamber


Would advise you to rethink this spec, with slash that low you'll need to bore the enemy to death

actually Turamber it works rather well, my old paladin Octanion could chainsolo yellows without downtime, or take 2 yellows and 2 blue´s at once, or you could take 1 orange 2 yellows (last two examples with downtime, but you still survived) and we are here talking about a paladin with NO buffs whatsoever.

Paladins aren´t dmg dealers they are dmg takers, so if you constantly shift chants you keep roup health up + you get the aggro, now as a dmg taker you really need defense above offense thus spec high shield/parry and let others do the dmg, YES it does take 1 minute to solo a single yellow, but who can solo the most yellows? a paladin specced defense doing 1 a minute, or a paladin specced cookiecutter that needs tor est after each fight, I´ll bet you 100g the defensive one comes out on top in the end due to the lack of downtime (of course both pallys are exactly the same regarding everything but the spec)

you might want to call the cookiecutter pally for wellspecced, I like to call my defensive pally for Wallspecced (sorry couldn´t resist) and make no mistake that is MY template (there´s an old post somewhere on BW that proves it, maybe I´ll find it and bump it )


http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=444500#post444500

there ye go proof that it´s my template ;p

 

[Bodzilla]

Originally posted by fatgit


pets (not as gimped as people think. at level 50, sappy can tank most oranges, and he's level 44 - show me a level 44 tank that can solo a level 55 mob )
Str & Dex debuffs (these make a big difference on mobs that take a while to kill)
Single target root (and tanks - MOBS STILL HIT WHEN ROOTED FFS! ) - on an average pull, I can root 3-5 mobs if enough distance
DoT(base and matter spec) and AoE DoT (matter spec) (that gets aggro off a cleric pretty often )
Disease & AoE Disease (body spec)
Lifedrain DD (tops up cabby hp - base and body spec versions)
Pet Shield - not often used in group pve as its only any use when pet has aggro. This HURTS mobs. While on, cabby cant move or cast anything else. A level 50 cabby with 41 matter shield on pet can take LB epics with a cleric or 2 healing the pet
Nearsight (matter spec) - up to 65% range debuff, also excellent for pulling
Life Transfer - heal others by giving them some of our health (body spec)
Various pet buffs (one baseline, other spec in spirit)
Pet reclaim (spirit) - we can use this to create our own pow
AoE Snare (28 spirit+ never seen this in action)
Body, spirit & energy debuffs (spirit spec)

Cabby is a jack of all trades, which makes em pretty versatile

Hope that answers that question

Apart from nearsight pulling tho, cabbies dont have much to offer a group. Im all for an AoE lifetap that heals group

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Octanion
Paladins aren´t dmg dealers they are dmg takers

Not sure about the accuracy of that quote. With the upcoming changes to the paladin class, and our boosted resists, this will be more of the case -- but still not 100% correct.

Our hp tables are lower than armsmen, and our dexterity is woeful - so, even with augmented dexterity realm abilities, we don't block or parry anywhere near as well as an armsman or merc of comparative ability speccing.

I hear what you are saying about chant twisting. I'm not the best at it (looks at Talath) but I can do it rather well, and have killed orange foes well enough.

The template given will be of little use in RvR though, as you will not have a minute to kill a foe. It's all about being able to deal damage quickly. Of course with the fixes to blocking and parrying in the next patch there is an argument for sticking to your local caster and bodyguarding him, but in a fight a paladin would be better off with a large feather to tickle someone to death rather than use that template.

As SoulFly says, reduce the parry a jot and move the slash up to amethyst level at least. Nice to see a paladin speccing his chants though, too many paladins with woeful chant levels these days.

 

[wyleia]

Originally posted by Bodzilla


Apart from nearsight pulling tho, cabbies dont have much to offer a group. Im all for an AoE lifetap that heals group

Nearsite pulling. They get dmg from nukes AND from pet bashing on mob. Their pets can tank mobs if necessary while the group kills another mob. They can heal themselves while doing dmg to other mobs, not needing to use the healers power. They can pull off some pretty amazing lifesaving healing if the healer for some reason goes down or oops( yes they CAN heal other people). They can nuke, they can debuff. They can cc small baf pulls with their root. They can regenerate their own power making them full power and ready to go way before other casters would be.
(prolly more that im missing, but i dont play cabalist, i just know a really good one and grouped with him lots on our way to 50 together Almost forgot, they can DOT too... a NICE DOT.

Aye guess yer right, nothing at all but nearsite to offer a group....

Wyleia Mythweaver
50th Sorc of The 30
http://www.the30.co.uk

 

[Wicoa]

Also cabbies have some lovely debuff's which for mr. laman is like you hitting the target with double buff on.

 

[Bodzilla]

Originally posted by wyleia


Nearsite pulling. They get dmg from nukes AND from pet bashing on mob. Their pets can tank mobs if necessary while the group kills another mob. They can heal themselves while doing dmg to other mobs, not needing to use the healers power. They can pull off some pretty amazing lifesaving healing if the healer for some reason goes down or oops( yes they CAN heal other people). They can nuke, they can debuff. They can cc small baf pulls with their root. They can regenerate their own power making them full power and ready to go way before other casters would be.
(prolly more that im missing, but i dont play cabalist, i just know a really good one and grouped with him lots on our way to 50 together Almost forgot, they can DOT too... a NICE DOT.

Aye guess yer right, nothing at all but nearsite to offer a group....

Wyleia Mythweaver
50th Sorc of The 30
http://www.the30.co.uk

Sorry, I worded it wrong.
They don't offer the group anything that another class couldn't do better.

Nearsight, and aoe/stacking DoT's is it.
Why take a cabalist, when you can get a sorcerer? Better de-buffs, in some cases better pet, nuke aswell as a cabalist.
The one thing they miss is the health transfer.
Cloth casters don't exactly have much HP as it is, transfering it to someone ( I assume this 'heal' draws as much aggro as a normal cleric/friar heal, not sure tho) seems suicidal.
There's also the added bonus of the sorcerer's aoe mez/root ability, and the useful run buff


Because they don't offer anything the group couldn't get from somewhere else is the reason they don't get grouped much.
Mercenaries, Scouts and Infiltrators get chosen for groups less for the same reasons. They do more damage then Armsmen/Paladins, but can't take as many hits. As long as the group has an Arms/Paly to take the hits, then why not go for a more damaging Wizard instead of the Merc/Scout/Inf?

 

[ivan_tribbiani]

Originally posted by Bodzilla

Main Roles for Albion classes :
Armsman/Paladin/Mercenary : Take the hits from mobs
Wizard : Dish damage
Sorcerer : Mez
Theurgist : PBT+buff (poor pets)
Cleric/Friar : Heal+buff
Infiltrator/Scout : Large physical damage
Minstrel : Backup mez + lesser downtime
Cabalist : Fuck knows what they should do in a group

Armsmen/Paladin : take and keep that damn aggro
Wizard : nukorama
Sorcerer : debuff, mezz <use uber pet >
Theurg : PBT, AoE Root, Buffage
Cleric : Heal,Buff, Stun
Friar : Secondary heals, buffs, backup damage dealer
Merc/Scout/Infil : Damage dealing, aggro control, staying alive
Minstrel : Mezz, songs, Stuns, backup tankette, pets
Cabby : pets, minor healing, nukes <or something>

Now i know why some people think thier class is limited, they get told that all they can do is so and so where as most classes have plenty of abilities that arent being utilised to the full potential.
Stunning aint it.