E
Embattle
Guest
- Thread starter
- #2
New EB Media guy...he is sort of like the person At GAME who handles BW etc....i guess
B
bodhi
Guest
- Thread starter
- #3
Dunno who Dave Evans is, but that Rick Walker bloke also quoted used to be in my Quake2/3/UT clan.
S
Sar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #4
Aye Sky, plays for NEO atm iirc, or maybe UNR.
B
bigfoot
Guest
- Thread starter
- #5
Dave Evans is sort of the head of Game Digital, which includes the 2 e-commerce sites (EB.uk.com and Game.uk.com) and umm us.
S
Sar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #6
IE: HE IS j00r GOD
etc
etc
D
Durzel
Guest
- Thread starter
- #7
A very good article.
It'll be better all round (for GSPs anyway) once someone makes the bold step to charge for usage of their servers en massé, rather than piecemeal as it is currently. I can see why BW etc are trialling P2P on certain servers, hoping to "break the community in" nice and slowly - hoping no one will notice their long term agenda. (I'm speaking generally of GSPs, not just BW)
It must be quite an interesting time for GSPs in general at the moment, they must all surely realise that there is going to come a time - sooner rather than later - where the only way they can operate as a profit-making business (or even one that breaks even) is through charging for the services they provide. But none of them wants to take a big step - as that itself, if it backfired, would probably spell its own demise or at the very least put the whole P2P movement back (imagine a GSP introducing charges sitewide and then having to unceremoniously backtrack when faced with too much backlash).
The question is more "when" than "if", but two things are certain - it's going to get worse before it gets better, but once one company sets the trend by charging for all provided services it will make it easier for others to do the same. Creating the climate where people expect to have to pay is the hard part, but once its there it just becomes a case of "how much". The other certainty is that there will always be immense resistance to P2P - either through simple economics or through inertia (people believing that since they've never had to pay to play before, "what has suddenly changed?").
It's interesting to draw a parellel between FPS gaming and MMORPG'ing - where it is expected that an ongoing monthly fee is to be applied. People rarely baulk at the idea of paying £8 a month to pay Everquest, because it is taken as given that this goes towards server/software upgrades, support, etc. The reality is - this is no different to GSP environments in general. The only difference is the climate.
It'll be better all round (for GSPs anyway) once someone makes the bold step to charge for usage of their servers en massé, rather than piecemeal as it is currently. I can see why BW etc are trialling P2P on certain servers, hoping to "break the community in" nice and slowly - hoping no one will notice their long term agenda.
(I'm speaking generally of GSPs, not just BW)It must be quite an interesting time for GSPs in general at the moment, they must all surely realise that there is going to come a time - sooner rather than later - where the only way they can operate as a profit-making business (or even one that breaks even) is through charging for the services they provide. But none of them wants to take a big step - as that itself, if it backfired, would probably spell its own demise or at the very least put the whole P2P movement back (imagine a GSP introducing charges sitewide and then having to unceremoniously backtrack when faced with too much backlash).
The question is more "when" than "if", but two things are certain - it's going to get worse before it gets better, but once one company sets the trend by charging for all provided services it will make it easier for others to do the same. Creating the climate where people expect to have to pay is the hard part, but once its there it just becomes a case of "how much". The other certainty is that there will always be immense resistance to P2P - either through simple economics or through inertia (people believing that since they've never had to pay to play before, "what has suddenly changed?").
It's interesting to draw a parellel between FPS gaming and MMORPG'ing - where it is expected that an ongoing monthly fee is to be applied. People rarely baulk at the idea of paying £8 a month to pay Everquest, because it is taken as given that this goes towards server/software upgrades, support, etc. The reality is - this is no different to GSP environments in general. The only difference is the climate.
W
Will
Guest
- Thread starter
- #8
The major problem I've always seen with pay-to-play, and I'm sure there are a lot of people currently mulling this one over, is who wants to pay to access empty servers? People will only sign up to an established community, but how do you get the ball rolling?
A one month free trial is one way of doing it, free access to the publics for people already paying for a clan server (watch clans grow to 100 members) is another. Also, no one will pay to pla on servers with cheats. I realise that the admins currently work very hard and are unpaid for their efforts (I'm an admin for a different set of servers, and I know what a thankless task it can sometimes be). I am looking at this from a Counterstrike point of view, but given that it is the biggest online game (deservedly or not, let's just not go there), it does provide a good example.
At the end of the day, we all know this is going to happen, and most of the people using these forums are older and would not miss a small amount of cash a month, but we all want this change to be painless, and don't want to be paying for a membership that we never end up using, as all the servers are either dead, full or full of lamers/cheaters.
A one month free trial is one way of doing it, free access to the publics for people already paying for a clan server (watch clans grow to 100 members
) is another. Also, no one will pay to pla on servers with cheats. I realise that the admins currently work very hard and are unpaid for their efforts (I'm an admin for a different set of servers, and I know what a thankless task it can sometimes be). I am looking at this from a Counterstrike point of view, but given that it is the biggest online game (deservedly or not, let's just not go there), it does provide a good example.At the end of the day, we all know this is going to happen, and most of the people using these forums are older and would not miss a small amount of cash a month, but we all want this change to be painless, and don't want to be paying for a membership that we never end up using, as all the servers are either dead, full or full of lamers/cheaters.
O
old.Jas
Guest
- Thread starter
- #9
There are a lot of issues to starting P2P, but the guys doing it have had long enough to think about it
The company that gets it right will reap big rewards
The company that gets it right will reap big rewards
B
Bazerka
Guest
- Thread starter
- #10
/me crosses his fingers and hopes that it's us
D
Durzel
Guest
- Thread starter
- #11
On an unrelated note...
at Buddy Jesus
at Buddy Jesus
D
Durzel
Guest
- Thread starter
- #12
You know, I've just had an idea ...
On the flip side, I can't imagine subscribers being very happy with other people being on the server that weren't paying for it. Free trials can also be easily abused with email addresses being ten a'penny. If you use more personal details (bank details, etc) you once again run into the problem of a certain part of the gaming demographic not having credit/debit cards, etc.
It's not quite a no-win situation, but its close.
Hadn't thought of that, and its a very good point.
On the flip side, I can't imagine subscribers being very happy with other people being on the server that weren't paying for it. Free trials can also be easily abused with email addresses being ten a'penny. If you use more personal details (bank details, etc) you once again run into the problem of a certain part of the gaming demographic not having credit/debit cards, etc.
It's not quite a no-win situation, but its close.
W
Will
Guest
- Thread starter
- #13
Well, DAOC solved this problem with 1 month's free trial per CD-key. But how to stop multiple free signups, since that isn't possible for pay-to-play?
Personalising the signup in someway, having a stats system, running tournaments for subscribers, that might get them to stay in, if these were run over a long term. But then you need employees working on these ideas, and that's your margins reduced already. You can't continue to use volunteers, if you want to guarentee your levels of service.
Personalising the signup in someway, having a stats system, running tournaments for subscribers, that might get them to stay in, if these were run over a long term. But then you need employees working on these ideas, and that's your margins reduced already. You can't continue to use volunteers, if you want to guarentee your levels of service.
S
Sar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #14
Do something like the WinXP key generation - make a proggy that ppl run that generates a number based on the persons hardware which then acts as their key which they can use in the free trial period. If the person tries to sign up with the same key to another free trial period then they would be refused and pointed to the sign up page for the full service.
Have the program generate this key from the hardware in the clients pc every time windows is started or every time they try to login to the BW service, in this way ensuring that it's the same client - the only way around it is to change hardware every month, and who the hell's gonna do that?
Prolly tons of flaws in that, but I don't care, as I'm only up an hour
Have the program generate this key from the hardware in the clients pc every time windows is started or every time they try to login to the BW service, in this way ensuring that it's the same client - the only way around it is to change hardware every month, and who the hell's gonna do that?
Prolly tons of flaws in that, but I don't care, as I'm only up an hour
E
Embattle
Guest
- Thread starter
- #15
As they say...Fucked if you do, Fucked if you don't
S
Sar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #16
Aye, it's the internet mentality though. Probably to do with the fact that there's no physical product being provided (that the end client sees) and therefore the feeling of not wanting to pay for it is so much stronger.
S
stu
Guest
- Thread starter
- #17
To be honest the article seemed overly whiny to me. And the whole P2P argument is started to really fucking bore me. It's a business... if you can't make it work, get out of the industry. Don't sit there whinging about how it's not fair because people won't pay.
M
mr.Blacky
Guest
- Thread starter
- #18
good points but what about the "dying" games? or the small mods? Perhaps for games that have a large following it is possible. But the small games will disapear.
D
Durzel
Guest
- Thread starter
- #19
The small mods are shit anyway, just look at Barrymore Q3 ! Twas pretty shit really
S
stu
Guest
- Thread starter
- #20
Sequels rarely capture the magic of the original :/
O
old.TheGaffer
Guest
- Thread starter
- #21
That would be me
I'm New Media Director for GAME, which means e-commerce, multiplayer and digital TV at the moment. I'm the one who has to sign the cheques (or tell other people to sign cheques).
I'm New Media Director for GAME, which means e-commerce, multiplayer and digital TV at the moment. I'm the one who has to sign the cheques (or tell other people to sign cheques).
S
Summo
Guest
- Thread starter
- #22
Read the n00bie guide, Dave. 
(Oh man, I'm so bad!)
(Oh man, I'm so bad!
)
W
Will
Guest
- Thread starter
- #23
Aren't you proud to see a whole thread dedicated to you?
There are a few issues that pop up time and time again whenever these pay-to-play discussions kick off, (which have become a lot more friendly recently), such as support for the small mods, ballpark figures, when my cheque is arriving, etc etc.
You wouldn't happen to have a few off the cuff answers, would you?
There are a few issues that pop up time and time again whenever these pay-to-play discussions kick off, (which have become a lot more friendly recently
), such as support for the small mods, ballpark figures, when my cheque is arriving, etc etc.You wouldn't happen to have a few off the cuff answers, would you?
D
Damini
Guest
- Thread starter
- #24
Originally posted by SomeGuy
Read the n00bie guide, Dave.
Heh, don't make me unleash disciplinairy Damini on you Summo. It's *far* too hot today for me to get into my leathers....
*Starts stockpiling cheques and IOU's for TheGaffer to sign*
S
Summo
Guest
- Thread starter
- #25
Oh, man. Being bad really pays off.
W
Will
Guest
- Thread starter
- #26
...hop on my motorbike, and pick up Big Dave to come and beat you up.
Y
~YuckFou~
Guest
- Thread starter
- #27
I miss my bike
D
Durzel
Guest
- Thread starter
- #28
The bottom line is, P2P is a minefield and anyone who dares step anywhere near it is going to lose a leg, or maybe even both legs. And an arm. Didn't anyone see "Born On The Fourth Of July" ? Poor man. Think of him as the humanoid equivalent of a GSP dabbling in P2P.
Think about it. Go on, think!
Think!
Think about it. Go on, think!
Think!
S
stu
Guest
- Thread starter
- #29
fat pig
D
Durzel
Guest
- Thread starter
- #30
I'm not fat god damn you!
Sloth.
Sloth.