Who cares about keeps when there's rp's to be had?

[Jonaldo]

Hard to say how very disappointed tonight around midnightish I was playing my lowbie druid alt and someone in guildchat mentioned something like 'lol.. 3 of our keeps are in enemy hands and 32 people in emain'. So I does /re then /who emain and he was spot on, rather than taking back any keeps or even giving 2 thoughts to what state the frontier is in it's like some kind of zombie mentality 'brrraaaaainnnssss', only 'rrrrrpppp's replaces it.

I mean... I know it's quite easy to do this when enemy patrols would now much rather share a cup of tea with you instead of prevent you attacking any held keeps but surely it doesn't take too long to just stop by and reclaim the keeps. (btw don't forget there's some relics we have that owning our own keeps actually helps to protect them).

Albs had Nged and Crim, Mid had Crauchon, but the hib zerg was probably pwning both the milegates in emain!!!1 Nice job.

Admittedly maybe I shouldn't tell people how to play the game and also keep taking has nowhere near the rewards it should have but still.. let's no all turn into rp whores here eh?

 

[Brannor McThife]

Um...just FYI. There is a VERY small group of us that TOTALLY agree with you. 5 of us - 3 Enchanters, Warden, NS tried to take Crimm 2 nights ago, and almost succeeded were it not for the Albs that crashed the party. Last night, we once against dragged people to take Crimm, and much to our amazement and gratitude, a L30ish Druid, gave up his XPing time, to come to aid us. Skipper, my thanks. /salute

Tonight we had more people retake Crimm, nice and fast. Notice, RETAKE. Sure, we often don't get RP for taking a keep, and gawd knows you get nothing for an undefended keep. But, defending can be a blast.

I was in Beno today, shortly after HDS had taken it, and the Albs arrived. After a few minutes of spamming the doors with DoT's, etc. Their mages gave up. The Ranger in the keep with me, reported to everyone what was happening. I picked my time, and inside of 10 seconds, had made myself a quick 4k RP.

Keep raids are, for me, more fun, than running around Emain "pwning" Albs/Mids occasionally, and being farmed the rest of the time.

I made 10k RP today or so...can't recall. 95% of that outside of Emain. And you know what? I enjoyed it AWAY from Emain.

But, back on Topic. Hibs don't know their own frontier. The only reason they know where Emain is, is because Breifine is far easier to pass through than the Pennines. As I once told Albs, get a map, learn YOUR frontier. And RETAKE, YOUR keeps. No keeps, = no guards respawn/spawn for Relics.

Hell, HDS took Benowyc, and 10 minutes later there were 2-3 FG of Albs to take it back, with rams.

Anyway...pretty sure us whining won't change a thing... Zerg on...

-G

 

[Lochlyessa]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife


Hell, HDS took Benowyc, and 10 minutes later there were 2-3 FG of Albs to take it back, with rams.

-G

We hafv l33t spies!!1 etc

 

[Cernos]

People just want to have fun, that's just how it is. For once the Emain zerg was fun, not just because we were winning but because it was co-ordinated and fast - every group had a bard, some groups had 2 bards. Since that's such a rarity, no-one much wanted to break off for keep taking and wanted to continue ENJOYING the game. It's not a job, if people get more fun from bashing mids/albs and not doors, it's their choice.

That said, we discussed this in group and in the Emain chat group and I was one of the people encouraging our group to at least retake Crim (since DC will swap back first thing in the morning anyway). So, we went and retook Crim. It fell quickly once we all managed to disengage from AMG and get there. nGed was reported to need rams, so we left that.

As a sidenote, there's not much fun in a keep defence or offence for tanks, we're just door bashers and lord room meatshields for the pbaoers. It might be fun for mages spamming aoe spells on the doors and in the lord room, but pretty dull for tanks. And unless we're grouped with a pbaoer, we're not going to be making lots of RPs either (and controversially I have seen some pbaoers stay outside of groups to maximise their returns in keep defence).

Let's face it, most of Hibernia's mages are now spec'd for AOE, so no wonder they prefer keep defence to open combat. Many even spec'd out of good ranged attacks for it. As a result, the 'magic realm' is now easily outnuked at distance by Midgard and Albion casters. Personally I find this mono-dimensional character creation just as disappointing and harmful to the realm as I'm sure mages find it that tanks won't bash keep doors to create a RP mine. Let's not pretend it's just about defence of the realm and relics eh, we're all after RPs. But, bottom line is everyone plays as they wish in order to have fun.

Cernos
50 Celt Hero, Raven Ardent, Hib Prydwen

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Cernos
Let's not pretend it's just about defence of the realm and relics eh, we're all after RPs.

Wrong. I like to ROLEPLAY my little lurikeen. Crimm is like MY keep. The Leprechaun council deemed it a good holiday resort. I, for one, do NOT serve the Almight Realm Point. If I wanted to 'zerg' all the time, I'd go play Starcraft. If I wanted to farm, I'd play a farmer. If I wanted to be farmed, I'd play a cow.

But yes, it's what people consider fun. And what you consider fun, says a lot about a person.



-G

 

[Coren]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Sure, we often don't get RP for taking a keep, and gawd knows you get nothing for an undefended keep. But, defending can be a blast.

- Brannor McThife, Level 24 Lurikeen Champion [Hibernia/Prydwen]
- Lucradan Etheralist, Level 50 Lurikeen Enchanter [Hibernia/Prydwen]
- Glauthrong, Level 50 Troll Warrior [Midgard/Prydwen] (Leave of Absence)

Midgard - Prydwen, Eyes & Ears (Leave of Absence)

 

[old.Downanael]

Now i dont have nothing against defending keeps but Coren have a point,as druids i usually find them very boring without nothing else to do than dot all who you see since all your groupmates are out of sight thanks to those towers

It fun with mages,it not so fun with non-nuker classes who mainly roll their tumbs while mages do the work

 

[Jood]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife

Wrong. I like to ROLEPLAY my little lurikeen. Crimm is like MY keep. The Leprechaun council deemed it a good holiday resort. I, for one, do NOT serve the Almight Realm Point. If I wanted to 'zerg' all the time, I'd go play Starcraft. If I wanted to farm, I'd play a farmer. If I wanted to be farmed, I'd play a cow.

But yes, it's what people consider fun. And what you consider fun, says a lot about a person.

So you go roleplay, we go RvR, whats the problem?

 

[Jonaldo]

Originally posted by Jood


So you go roleplay, we go RvR, whats the problem?

In my eyes rvr involves more keep taking and invading rather than running past enemy held keeps just to go fight people. As I did mention in my original post I can't tell people how to play the game but I just think that kind of mentality toward the game is bit sad, but alas until Mythic give us some better reasons to take and hold keeps I'm sure people will continue to overlook those blue & red flags on the keeps they just wandered past.

Also being a mentalist I can't respec to a pbaoe class and nor would I want to. I've been one of the loudest voices against all these manachanters all appearing, because of one or two good players everybody wants to play one but I for one don't see the appeal of a class that needs about 1/10 of the skill of most other classes to play. Just not my cup of tea, in fact even my latest alt is a druid, not some cookie cutter oobermegadeathspamz0r char.

(edit) and yes it's on the same account as all my characters, not some 2nd account buffbot type thing

 

[Cernos]

Hitting a door over and over and over again is not my idea of roleplay.

Sorry, but that's what keep taking equates to for a tank. How does spending 30 minutes staring at a door spamming a style key = good roleplay? Answer me that.

Besides ...

There are less tanks playing Hib now than ever before, because lots of people are rolling stealthers and casters. People just want to have fun, so whatever ..... but with less door spankers around, it means that many tanks have grown very weary of it always being them that is expected to go thump the doors. I know I have. I used to always be up for a keep take, now I need a good solid reason to do so (relic / DF / guild claim etc).

The problem is this, Hibs take a keep and unless they choose to defend it, the Albs or Mids zerg it back soon after. This is particularly true of DC and Crim. It all gets very monotonous. Just like the Zerg does. Ironic then that one form of monotony proved to be a little more entertaining than another last night, though of course Crim was retaken anyway.

Blame it on Mythic for making keep taking and defence such a bore for most classes other than casters, assassins and archers.
I can think of a whole slew of ways to make it more fun, but they'll never happen. For example, proper seige engines and ladders so that there can be actual fights on the battlements, not just the boring old routine of assassins climbing in, DOTing someone and leaping out again <yawn>.

Cernos
50 Celt Hero, Raven Ardent, Hib Prydwen

 

[Falcon]

To be honest Hib doesn't have the numbers to zerg and RvR as seriously as the other two realms, both Mid and Alb can mount decent defence to their keeps the second a sword hits one of their doors (Although Alb don't seem to bother, they could if they wanted). Couple that with the fact our frontier is everyone's favourite RvR playground meaning our keeps get more traffic and are bound to get hit far more means our keeps get hit FAR more often. This brings in a few factors putting people off keeping taking:
- Too many keeps to retake too often, gets boring after a while, no one wants to spend so much time taking keeps
- Too few players to keep out the massive forces of invaders in our frontier
- Too few players to spread the keep taking between, meaning again, it gets dull for the same ones having to do it over and over

Factor all this together and you can see that Hibs just don't want to spend all their time fighting for their keeps, something the other realms barely have to do. I doubt very much Hibs spend any less time on looking after our keeps as the other realms, we probably spend more time looking after them, the only difference is as I say, ours are hit FAR more often.

Is it really reasonable to say Hibs should have to defend more and retake more so that the other realms can have more fun attacking them during emain downtime and waiting to defend them when we come to retake ?

Keep retaking is important imo, just not at the expense of all of our fun.

 

[Shike]

I think it will be even worse in 1.54, since the keeps will be a LOT harder to take. I read somewhere that about 3fg or something is required to take a keep. Which in the end means that hibs will have an ever harder time to take keeps back. Oh and to take a defended keep in 1.54.. forget it, assassins have enormous problems to take out bowmen and if they set the foot inside the keep to kill someone in it, they are most likely dead after that, which means that 1fg easily can fend off large numbers of attackers, even larger than today since all guards are a lot heavier to deal with. Though I have to say that its too easy to take a keep today, its silly, we was 6 rangers and took 1st door down and 2nd to 10% at surs before we got zerged by 3-4 fg's of albs... thats SILLY imo, 6 rangers shouldnt be able to do that, ok it took us 30 minutes, but still..

Mids have a bunch of alts logged in most keeps today. All they do if hibs jump bled for example is simply that they log in some people and instantly have an ok defense that holds until reinforcements come. Imagine this with the upgraded guards... sheesh... Middies keeps will be mids for quite some time is my guess.

Albs have enough people to zerg keeps and take them fast and also have enough alts to have some in keeps.

Hibs have.. umm.. a lot of crafters that dont RvR? we dont have the numbers to take a keep every time we loose one. Most hibs are tired of pingpong Crauchon and Crim I think. I know I am I have been active in taking quite some numbers of keeps now and it aint fun, not fun not fun not fun.. ok cornell?

And besides, I am pretty certain that mids or albs can take our 3 powrelics whenever they wish, all they need to do is taking all keeps at the same time, it only takes 1 fg to take a keep and they have the numbers to assemble 2 fg for all our keeps if they want and still have 5-6 fg's that can start to work on Dagda. Lucky for us they are so lazy and only camp MG's and take some keeps now and then

 

[bone_idle]

Albion and Midgard have proved that keep taking isnt neccesary to take the relics. The thing is when they do try to take the relics we have 400 mana chanters trying to blow them up. By then the damage has been done because the doors are already fooked and cost a fortune to repair. I think everyone saw how well Usp did as a manachanter and they want to be as good. As cornell said earlier there is no skill in being a manchanter ie: run to lord wait a little while then see how fast you can bang your pbaoe button and see how many you kill. I'm not trying to alienate myself against manchanters in the realm, we have enough to defend but if things carry on going the way they are then all Hib will be is everything manaspecced. I have an enchanter who is most enchant and a little light spec. i got invited into a group the other day to xp with and they instantly expected me to pbaoe the mobs we were pulling. when i wasnt they asked what i was doing and why wasnt i pbaoe'ing everything i told them im not mana specced but the 3 tanks in the group had the best damage add buff for this level and a few of them asked me to respec to mana because it is better :/ . I didnt last long in the group because i was getting the cold shoulder treatment from most of them. So .... you know who you are .... and when you come to me asking for a damage add in rvr if i hit 50 you know where to go .

 

[old.LandShark]

Working any roleplay into Hibernian-frontier RvR is totally beyond me. Can do it in mid or alb frontiers, because they aren't so ludicrously crowded and full of people shouting "LFG", and the tele/borderkeeps are mercifully devoid of clerics called Busty Bigbuffs.
But roleplaying in the emain zerg? Your roleplay self-image would surely be a little bit strained after being ressurected miraculously 19 times a day :|

 

[old.Aure]

Think I've retaken 33 keeps since Tuesday and probably 7,346,799 since March. Yesterday Bolg with 8 GOS, Behn with 2 fg adds and Dc. Then Crim, then Crim again.

Always a significant option to retake keeps, however the opponents strategy is such that they actually take keeps for RP bonus and cut off any people incoming to them, rather than take them.

Typically it seems we have a new breed of people arriving in Hib who seem to know it all, so as of now count me out of all chat groups and don't ask me to lead any emain or rvr ever again.

 

[old.Gromnir]

As a former middie I'v been in a few so called zergs, since emain oddly belong to albions and middies most of the time anyway we sort of evoluved a relationship with emain. For one Warders have a on of relationship with DC, not wanting any one else holding her, so we rushed out to retake it every time some one took it (don't know if they still do it).

But back to the point you can zerg the enemy run over and retake DC run back to milegate zerg run back and take Crim, back to mile gate. It can be done ... if people know how to work fast.

 

[StormriderX]

As a tank I do find the door bashing to be horrendously tedious but if the keep in question is a hib fort in enemy hands then I'd like to retake that asap even if it will fall again the next morning. Why? Because it is OUR proprerty! Don't like filthy albs/mids residing in me property for any length of time .

 

[old.Kladen]

taken keeps is the right thing to do but taking keeps are soooo boring, also you get no benefit out of it unless you want to claim it, and most people play for their own fun so they dont care if we have DF coz it dont affect em.

 

[Nemesis Warlock]

LUNIPRUNI!!!!

All the time !!!!

ouch !

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife

But, back on Topic. Hibs don't know their own frontier. The only reason they know where Emain is, is because Breifine is far easier to pass through than the Pennines. As I once told Albs, get a map, learn YOUR frontier. And RETAKE, YOUR keeps. No keeps, = no guards respawn/spawn for Relics.

It's amusing to watch keep retake groups on Excalibur/Albion feeding the Drakes.

I'd have thought hibs would be better at defending their keeps due to the sole reason that they have to run past them to get to Emain.

On excal all the albs stare at the north sauvage gate as if it's a brick wall.

Hell, HDS took Benowyc, and 10 minutes later there were 2-3 FG of Albs to take it back, with rams.

Do the Excalibur albs all play in pryd/hib (hence the emain thing) and the mids play in pryd/albion or something?

Excalibur: alb loses 4 keeps - people start thinking about maybe going to check our relic keeps. put a single ram up on bledmeer and there's 4fg of Mids on your heels within seconds.

ps. I think I got lost/bored and ended up in the wrong forums ... muhauha Flimgoblin invasion. I do play hib/pryd! honest! It's not just a level 10 champion I never login...

 

[Luuna]

Keep taking/attacking/defending is about the only interesting thing in RvR right now.