Which Class For NF?

Snorlig

Fledgling Freddie
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Which class will Exell most in NF, for keep attacks and keep defenses and basic uberness, please don't be stupid and flame just say your suggestions but don't be biased if it's your class or something.


Thanks

Snorlig
 

Etaew

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scout for defences.. high walls = +range = teh win :)
 

Morimdin

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ammagawd, sc0wt ofc. ! =D we allready own(in grp's that is u c BigC and Grivne?xD) in NF we gonna be like omfg wtf any scout lfg keep-zerg plx join my bg!!1
 

Wazkyr

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Must say scout yes, still play non nf (europe) and im otw to make myself a scout :)
 

Escape

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Archers are looking very fotm atm... so we're seeing Mythic in a 'Back to basics" move. Expect an archer nerf by 1.73 :p

It's still early days for NF though, most of the action is keep based and the real fotm setups haven't had a chace to form. Once people get bored and stop playing with keeps, we'll probably see some changes. But I wouldn't expect any revelations from the US, wait until NF hits EU for the real fotm groups to come out.
 

Pazdan

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Try playing something you are happy with rather than going for the uber l33t kiddie FOTM class. You have a better chance of playing your chosen character well rather than playing straight easy mode. Which is just lame.

:twak:
 

Sycho

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Pazdan said:
Try playing something you are happy with rather than going for the uber l33t kiddie FOTM class. You have a better chance of playing your chosen character well rather than playing straight easy mode. Which is just lame.

:twak:

So true, hence one of the reasons i made my wizard.I often see ***** saying " you realise chanter is so much better? or caba has more utility?" i really do not give a shit, i have fun with my wiz and do good i think.Any class is good if you put effort, time into making it a good toa sc set and rvr with people you like playing with.

Too many scouts as it is to be honest...

Though range is going to be an advantage in frontiers, i wouldn't ever make a scout(just isn't my type of class, nothing against them) but anyway maybe make a few lv20 chars and see what you prefer.
 

Bunnytwo

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If include non-Alb classes then would say Animist more than scout, just cos those mushrooms are soo suited for keep work.

If alb then though find em bit dull personally would say 6sec pbt theur will be popular in NF (with groups who have one anyways), as I believe that archer volley in NF won't pierce PBT (seem to remember that being mentioned somewhere anyways).

Though would be nice to have another scout about if you were gonna make one :)
 

Brolundar

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Start to push siegecraft right now.

NF will not bring many changes of current situation, so debuff-nuker still will be fotm.

Dont try current form of nf-volley from walls, if you dont wanna hurt yourself.
 

Aeatan

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Sycho said:
So true, hence one of the reasons i made my wizard.I often see ***** saying " you realise chanter is so much better? or caba has more utility?" i really do not give a shit, i have fun with my wiz and do good i think.Any class is good if you put effort, time into making it a good toa sc set and rvr with people you like playing with.

So true, I love my sorcerer. Sure, I could be a hell of a better one by getting all sorts of l33t gear and what not, but hey, then what? I'll gather my stuff the same way as I always have.. I'll pick it up on my way on in the future. (hey, that doesn't mean I'm a gimp running around in level 20 clothes! I /do/ have a nice suit, if I say so myself).
 

Oro

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Ownage in NF will be initially by teams of peeps that know how to siege properly. Individual chars and specs will have an impact but not as much as it does just now in FG RvR.

Agree it will change when it settles down and that appropriate nerfs will be handed out by Mythic left, right and centre so be careful of going for what you think will be fotm.

I can only echo what has been said above. Pick something you like the way it plays and go for it :)
 

Garok

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Oro said:
Ownage in NF will be initially by teams of peeps that know how to siege properly. Individual chars and specs will have an impact but not as much as it does just now in FG RvR.

Agree it will change when it settles down and that appropriate nerfs will be handed out by Mythic left, right and centre so be careful of going for what you think will be fotm.

I can only echo what has been said above. Pick something you like the way it plays and go for it :)

Earth Wiz it is then xD !
 

Escape

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The idealist view of picking a class you have fun playing, doesn't work in reality.
There needs to be a balance between fun and effectiveness, otherwise you'll end up on forums whining about this class or that fotm group... etc

The most fun I've had was with my infil, but I haven't played her for over a year. It's when the buffbot revolution kicked off and made solo'ing pointless unless you had one. I'd delete my other chars to play on a server where people respect solo duels and don't use bots. It's not gonna happen on prydwen though, so you need to find a class you can enjoy playing whilst complementing your group. Which translates to rolling fotm classes...
 

Nive11en

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Casters for the win. I'm looking forward to naval ship vs ship combat in NF. (This is where archers/casters come in for ranged combat)
Reminds me of pirate movies, wonder if one can get ship near, and then tanks jump from one to other ship and fighting begin. :)

Only question for me is whether should respec to fire or earth, or stay ice. Have a strange feeling fire wiz groups will be more popular. Mez then fire debuff, then kill one by one.
 

Mybuddies

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Heh, I made a Scout because all my mates who made stealthers made Infils and I didn't want to follow the crowd. Now it looks like I'm gonna be lost in the flood!

Oh well, maybe stick to my windy thurg then :worthy:
 

Pazdan

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The idealist view of picking a class you have fun playing, doesn't work in reality.
There needs to be a balance between fun and effectiveness, otherwise you'll end up on forums whining about this class or that fotm group... etc

If you are picking a class but you don't have fun with it, why the hell are you playing the GAME?

All classes have their bonuses. It is just that the geek crowd haven't fingured out how to use them in their little setups yet. For instance. Try running with an Infil (with see hidden and a Shades of Mist Cloak) in a none "stealther war" group and clean up the milegates. Take a friar instead of an armsman. Those buggers can do incredible damage, have good resist buffs and can heal a little if need be. That earth wiz that you all call a gimp can have three bolt spells and AOE root and can clear out those milegate room campers.

All classes are usefull just that the FOTM "balanced", win at all costs idiots, can't see past their noses.
 

Escape

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Pazdan said:
If you are picking a class but you don't have fun with it, why the hell are you playing the GAME?

All classes have their bonuses. It is just that the geek crowd haven't fingured out how to use them in their little setups yet. For instance. Try running with an Infil (with see hidden and a Shades of Mist Cloak) in a none "stealther war" group and clean up the milegates. Take a friar instead of an armsman. Those buggers can do incredible damage, have good resist buffs and can heal a little if need be. That earth wiz that you all call a gimp can have three bolt spells and AOE root and can clear out those milegate room campers.

All classes are usefull just that the FOTM "balanced", win at all costs idiots, can't see past their noses.

I'm not saying to play a class purely because it's fotm... but one which is good in groups and fun to play. Between those two extremes you fiind a balance.

If you think Earth wizzies are fun to play, go ahead and roll one. But when you don't get groups and can't solo, come back and tell us how much fun you had. This is an online game with hundreds of players to consider, what you want, doesn't correspond with what others want. If you want to have fun with your character, roll one which works well in groups. I'm not encouraging this mentality, but it is the reality of how groups work and it's not likely to change.

RvR would be alot more fun with random classes and no consideration for abilities. In this atmosphere, you could play the classes you like the most and everyone would probably be happy and stop killing each other. But that's not how RvR is, so you need to change your perspective on what is a 'fun' class to play.
 

Pazdan

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If you think Earth wizzies are fun to play, go ahead and roll one. But when you don't get groups and can't solo, come back and tell us how much fun you had.

Got one, play one... well did. Had to change to Ice at 40 in order to get into groups in AC. Which was a shame. Will be going back to Earth at 50. They are fine solo in PVE. Infact that they are actually quite good. In RvR, well they are great. More people should try them

I'm not saying to play a class purely because it's fotm... but one which is good in groups and fun to play. Between those two extremes you fiind a balance.

Playing for fun is why we are all here. Having to strike a balance between playing for fun and what your mates want is a flawed argument. I mean if your mates wanted you to go bunge jumping and you didn;t like heights, would you go just to please them? Not the sort of friends you should be after in my opinion. If playing for fun means playing a class that helps your mates out then great.. but don;t do out of your way to play a class purely to try and get in with the in crowd. A class that you don;t really want to play but end up playing because of peer pressure.

but it is the reality of how groups work and it's not likely to change.

No it isn;t likely to change, but that doesn't mean that random set ups wont work. With a bit of thought most set ups will work.. well as long as they have a healer class and play to the groups strengths.

RvR would be alot more fun with random classes and no consideration for abilities. In this atmosphere, you could play the classes you like the most and everyone would probably be happy and stop killing each other. But that's not how RvR is, so you need to change your perspective on what is a 'fun' class to play.

I am glad to see that you call it RvR and not Group vs Group because that is what the system is. Anyone can go out anyone can have fun. If you don;t like what is happening move. Yes their are hundreds of players so the chance of finding someone doing or thinking the same way as you is quite high. If you have to change your perspective on what is fun, then you have to change your perspective on the game itself. For exmaple, why am I playing this game instead of some of the other multi player online games out there. If the answer is because you like the uber group vs group, gank em when they aren;t looking, FOTM rerolling when Mythic make a fix, I want to be worshipped, angle, then go play counterstrike. This isn;t the game your you. If you want Realm vs Realm, variety, hundreds of players who are all different, multiple ways to win, I have a lot of classes to choose from and I like the look of an Avalonian Armsmen, angle, then welcome to DAoC.

We maybe a bunch of freaks but only some of us have the personality to be different.
 

Pazdan

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Oh and Escape, thanks for an interesting discussion.

Just thought I would add that.

:cheers:
 

Oro

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Escape said:
The idealist view of picking a class you have fun playing, doesn't work in reality.

It does, but what happens is people roll their 'fun' class thinking it will own in all situations.

I've taken 7 chars to 50 now and each and every one I've played and specced the way I wanted (except bonedancer, the AI bugs drove
me bananas and I ended up having to give up and go a bit cookie cutter - actually the reason I didn't like bonedancer so much was I like very fine control of pets and BD has basically no more than SM other than spacing and formation - I'd been hoping for a true caster *pet* class and I got a cloth-wearing tank, Animists are actually closer to what I wanted).

Um, rambling again. Basically, if you go for a strange spec, you will have fun, but might find it is in very specific situations that may not occur often, thats all.

Tanks will still have fun in NF, even though the whine is strong on VN. However, tanks are used to ruling nearly every aspect of the game for over 2 years now and that time is over.
 

Escape

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I'm looking at this from the perspective of someone who wants to roll an RvR character. Presumably this person wants a lv50 who can join groups and have reasonable success in RvR. Now telling him to 'roll whichever class is fun for you' isn't true. The RvR system is flawed and doesn't cater for all classes/specs. You can run in a randomly formed group but inevitably you will run into organised players, who will kill you without a sweat,

The answer(if you want to engage in 1fg Vs 1fg battles) is to run organised groups of your own, which excludes alot of classes. But these groups are more efficient and have a chance against other groups out there. The other alternative is to quit playing because your main character isn't welcome in rvr, which sadly alot of people have done. So someone wants to roll a character for RvR*, do I tell him 'roll what's fun for you' or should I look at the reality of RvR and tell him the truth?

Discrimination isn't exclusive to RvR, it happens in PvE, it happens in all aspects of the game and it happens in real life.


Pazdan said:
Playing for fun is why we are all here. Having to strike a balance between playing for fun and what your mates want is a flawed argument. I mean if your mates wanted you to go bunge jumping and you didn;t like heights, would you go just to please them? Not the sort of friends you should be after in my opinion. If playing for fun means playing a class that helps your mates out then great.. but don;t do out of your way to play a class purely to try and get in with the in crowd. A class that you don;t really want to play but end up playing because of peer pressure.

There's a group of seven people, each as important as the other and so deserve equal consideration. I join this group with my dubiously spec'd character and don't contribute much to the action. Let's say my Matter Sorceress has great fun DoT'ing in RvR and trying to DoT in PvE. But is it fun for the rest of the group? Aren't they expecting this Sorceress to AoE mezz/root, give crack, debuff or so something other than crap Dots! :D

It's not a 'needs of the many outweight the needs of the few' dilemma, but if you're in a group you should contribute to it positively and to the best of your character's abilities. Like you've said, you needed to respec your wiz to ice for PvE because earth wizzies aren't accepted easily. Avalon City is the worst place in Albion, you'll see more discrimination there than anywhere else... anyway, don't say there's no fun in playing an ice wiz! imo it's the most fun PvE spec.

I find it hard to belive out of ~40 classes available, each with 3 specialisations, you can only play the least popular to discover your individuality! When I'm playing the game, I'm not my character, he's just an avatar I move around, I could play any class and still enjoy the game. What's important to me is being in a group with people who're fun to play with. Otherwise it doesn't matter what you play, or who you kill... you're still grouped with assholes. So am I whoring myself and giving in to peer pressure by playing required classes, or am I looking to enjoy the game whilst benefiting the groups I join?

Class discrimination exists and you can't blame the players but Mythic for this. If you're going to invest time and effort into an RvR character, don't choose one because it's fun to play, but because it's fun and usefull to the group. Otherwise you won't get groups and you'll end up quitting!



* This depends on your definition of RvR, but the most active form is 1fg Vs 1fg + their adds + stealther adds + more adds. But everyone likes to pretend they're running 1fg even when it's a zerg, so I'll continue to assume 1fg RvR.
 

Oro

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Lots of valid points, Escape. And they apply well to mainstream regular RvR. Yep, if you want to either join an 'RvR' guild or get pickup groups fast at APKE, you are forced to make a group-desired class, even if it doesn't really suit you. If you want to do something a bit different, usually you have to rely on your guild to join you for some insanity while you try stuff out.

I still think tanks will have fun in NF, it just won't be uber death spam glory which many seek and they'll have to learn to use siege weapons. There is still a need for people to guard the cloth-wearing feeblies and there will still be a need for toughies to charge the enemy to bring them down. They just won't dominate like they have done for an extremely long time which if you read between the lines on VN, is what they are really whining about.
 

leviathane

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Escape said:
. The RvR system is flawed and doesn't cater for all classes/specs. You can run in a randomly formed group but inevitably you will run into organised players, who will kill you without a sweat,
Class discrimination exists and you can't blame the players but Mythic for this. If you're going to invest time and effort into an RvR character, don't choose one because it's fun to play, but because it's fun and usefull to the group. Otherwise you won't get groups and you'll end up quitting!
i tend to disagree, take alook at Divious, a thane but he got rr10 or whatever on a class which is considered to be no opted for rvr group usage. I go by the feeling that, although a class my not be as good as another it's how the person plays it, and how the people of that realm react, e.g are gimps and say, " no we leet we must only have fotm chars". etc.
 

leviathane

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nerf can't edit but anyway, hopefully NF will let these classes that are being snuffed into play in maybe a 2fg opted zerg or something similar.
 

Pazdan

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I'm looking at this from the perspective of someone who wants to roll an RvR character.

I am looking at it from a perspective that this is a game. If you get your jollies by playing a character that everyone else wants you to play then bully for you. I don;t really see the point in looking to see what is needed to be uber just because the leet crew wont talk to you unless you dance to their tune. Hell, we should all be adults here and not pushed around just because some little wanker say's that you are a gimp and gets insulting because you haven't got what he needs.

Albion does need more clerics for instance. Not the BB variety but the straight up heal variety. However you shouldn't play one unless you like that sort of thing. Don;t play one because R0X0R RvR guild, the ultimate badasses want you to play one. Tell em to shove it up their anally retentive arses and do what you want. You will find groups. You will win, thouhg maybe not as much, but you will still win. Have a look at what you want from the game and go down that road. You pay to play so don;t let anyone else force you into something you don;t want to do.

Then again some people like being sheep and rubbing rags so if that is what they like then fair enough.

The answer(if you want to engage in 1fg Vs 1fg battles) is to run organised groups of your own

That is always the best way to do things I have found. If things aren't being done the way you would like them to be done then do it yourself. You want to play a Thane for instance and like the idea of RvRing with them but get told "fuck off mezz breaker gimp" then start your own group. Eight Thanes in one group would be rather tricky to take down if they cast all their aoe insta's at once. If you like playing a scout but want to group up in a none stealther way, then start your own group. You can guard a caster. You can shoot and interrupt. You can stun if anyone gets too close. All you have to do is think about the group you have and work out a plan. Most things works as long as you think about for a few mins.

It's not a 'needs of the many outweight the needs of the few' dilemma, but if you're in a group you should contribute to it positively and to the best of your character's abilities. Like you've said, you needed to respec your wiz to ice for PvE because earth wizzies aren't accepted easily. Avalon City is the worst place in Albion, you'll see more discrimination there than anywhere else... anyway, don't say there's no fun in playing an ice wiz! imo it's the most fun PvE spec.

It is a game. The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many. Unless you are bothering other people and harming their game experience then play the game how you want, not the way other people want you to. As for my Wiz, I never tried to get a group with Earth. I knew if I did I would find it hard work, not impossible. I went Ice to get those last 10 levels quicker for me, not for anyone else. Maybe selfish, but I am sure other people appreciate the fast levelling on the way. I can enjoy both Ice and Earth Wizzies, but my desire to level fast to 50 was for my enjoyment and not out of a desire to be uber and l33t and be accepted by people I really have no respect for.

Class discrimination exists and you can't blame the players but Mythic for this. If you're going to invest time and effort into an RvR character, don't choose one because it's fun to play, but because it's fun and usefull to the group. Otherwise you won't get groups and you'll end up quitting

Yes, Mythic have screwed up class and realm balance big time. If you are going to spend time and money playing a game have the most fun you can have out of it. If you are not having fun, quit.. or at least try and find a group of people with similar ideas. About 650 people log onto Albion Pryd everynight. We have a wonderfull variety of guilds and people from accross Europe. (yes even the Dutch :) ). All of these guilds and people want different things. It is a way to find likeminded folks who believe in the same ethics of the game as you do. If you find that you are in a guild and they start insulting you or making you play certain classes, fuck em off. Go and find proper friends in another guild. There are plenty of people out there rather than the l33t crew who feel they speak for the whole server.
 

Escape

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leviathane said:
i tend to disagree, take alook at Divious, a thane but he got rr10 or whatever on a class which is considered to be no opted for rvr group usage. I go by the feeling that, although a class my not be as good as another it's how the person plays it, and how the people of that realm react, e.g are gimps and say, " no we leet we must only have fotm chars". etc.


Divious made RR10 last year or something, he was the first RR10 in mid iirc.
He worked to get RR10, but it doesn't reflect the rvr success of other thanes.

Steveh worked to get RR10, but his is a special case also. You can't say one armsman is active in rvr, so all armsmen are active. Infact Steveh making RR10 shows how bad the situation is for the class, although they can be played, no one wants to play them! Why is this? Because of the server-wide attitude which I'm trying to point out here. It's not restricted to rvr guilds, or elitists or whoever, class discrimination is an infection which has taken root in the majority of players.

Take a look at PvE Raid signups on these forums, how many call for specific classes to fill their groups? isn't that as bad as rvr discrimination? What about regular pve groups? People were doing this from the first week the server went live and in places like Mithra! So why deny the existance of class discrimination, by most of the people who play the game. It was here before organised RvR groups and it's here to stay.

Yes, if you're a dedicated player who is willing to put in the time and effort, you can play any class you want. As shown by Divious, Steveh, Maeloch... and if you want to RvR differently, by taking keeps every night you can play like Belorfyn (Leave renaris alone, dammit! :p )

What do they have in common though? They form their own groups and organise things themselves. Less than one percent of players will do this for any lenght of time, so expecting anyone to come along and put in that much effort is not realistic.


Pazdan said:
I am looking at it from a perspective that this is a game. If you get your jollies by playing a character that everyone else wants you to play then bully for you. I don;t really see the point in looking to see what is needed to be uber just because the leet crew wont talk to you unless you dance to their tune. Hell, we should all be adults here and not pushed around just because some little wanker say's that you are a gimp and gets insulting because you haven't got what he needs.

If you rolled a class you hate, but did it purely because it's fotm.... you won't have fun and just wasted your time -- If you roll a class you love, but it's useless in groups > no one will group you, you won't have fun and just wasted your time.

I had nothing to do with this rule and I don't agree with it, but it is the reality of the game. It's nothing to do with being leet, or being accepted by leet people(whoever they are). But it's about having fun within the game, within your guild/circle of friends. Where have I said you need to have an fotm class to suck up to rvr guilds? If you want to do sychophantic shit like that, join irc and use lots of xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD m8z ololol and speak as little english as possible(Yes I'm generalising, no I don't give a crap m8s xDDDDDDDDDD)

Pazdan said:
If things aren't being done the way you would like them to be done then do it yourself. You want to play a Thane for instance and like the idea of RvRing with them but get told "fuck off mezz breaker gimp" then start your own group. Eight Thanes in one group would be rather tricky to take down if they cast all their aoe insta's at once. If you like playing a scout but want to group up in a none stealther way, then start your own group. You can guard a caster. You can shoot and interrupt. You can stun if anyone gets too close. All you have to do is think about the group you have and work out a plan. Most things works as long as you think about for a few mins.

Unique groups are always fun to fight in/with, but the fotm fever is everywhere. How many people do you know who try setups which differ from the norm? Out of 2000+ players on Prydwen, the answer is shockingly low. For someone who just wants a regular RvR experience, you're putting alot of weight on his shoulders by telling him not only to roll any class he wants, but also form his own groups and try unusual setups to suit his class. Without forming rvr groups yourself... you can't appreciate the amount of stress it causes.


Pazdan said:
It is a game. The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many.

No, it's an online game with real people behind those avatars. Granted, alot of them are either school kids, or immature adults. But there're a good number of decent people playing this game, so am I going to tell them to fo just because I can? No, I'll seperate those with sense, from those without... and only interact with the former. So I don't need to consider the fools in the game because I don't talk to them anyway. Now I expect people to contribute to the groups we form and I know the same is expected from me. What is elitist about teamplay?

Let's say you're out with friends and everyone is buying quality drinks, when it comes to your round you bring some low quality brew and know you're the only one who'll enjoy it. You change your mind and bring the regular, which everyone(including you) can enjoy. Are you defiling your rights as a human, are you submitting yourself, becoming a slave, being abused, giving in to peer pressure, sucking up to the in-crowd.... or simply being sociable because you're fond of these people.

Pazdan said:
About 650 people log onto Albion Pryd everynight. We have a wonderfull variety of guilds and people from accross Europe. (yes even the Dutch :) ). All of these guilds and people want different things. It is a way to find likeminded folks who believe in the same ethics of the game as you do. If you find that you are in a guild and they start insulting you or making you play certain classes, fuck em off. Go and find proper friends in another guild. There are plenty of people out there rather than the l33t crew who feel they speak for the whole server.

About 650 log in and only ~50 of those RvR. I'm not saying everyone wants to RvR, but there're a whole lot more people who would, if they could. Why can't they? because of unsuitable classes or the lack of 'fotm' classes and primarily because there aren't enough people forming groups. Now this all comes down to what I said in my original post and if you need proof, just look at the sever and you'll see the truth. And I'm not going to go through this point again :p


No I don't like it, but class discrimination exists
This mentality is stronger in PvE than RvR
Ignoring or denying it won't make any difference

You live in society which dictates rules for you. You play an MMORPG where the playerbase makes it's own rules aswell. Why rebel against these, when some of them make sense(e.g. not pulling from someone else's camp). As with any society, discrimination creeps in and unless you're prepared to fight a campaign to bring Matter Sorcs back into the game, just accept the game is indeed a game and not to be taken too seriously. Roll a class you'll - have fun - playing but not one that's gimped. The more people who focus on usefull classes, the more potential there is for forming rvr groups, more rvr groups means more rvr for everyone and it's no longer exclusive to organised groups.

If no one wants to make this effort, then you can expect to see more people quittig and rvr players will remain a small percentage of total players. RvR is fun and should be open to all, but people deny themselves this privilage by being stubborn.
 

Arus Canus

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
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Pazdan said:
If you are picking a class but you don't have fun with it, why the hell are you playing the GAME?

All classes have their bonuses. It is just that the geek crowd haven't fingured out how to use them in their little setups yet. For instance. Try running with an Infil (with see hidden and a Shades of Mist Cloak) in a none "stealther war" group and clean up the milegates. Take a friar instead of an armsman. Those buggers can do incredible damage, have good resist buffs and can heal a little if need be. That earth wiz that you all call a gimp can have three bolt spells and AOE root and can clear out those milegate room campers.

All classes are usefull just that the FOTM "balanced", win at all costs idiots, can't see past their noses.

Dont need infils or scouts to detect stealthers. Goddess Necklace , Cyclops Eye Shield etc.. Tanks/Casters can do it to.
 

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