What would be the impact on RvR balance of :

Aeoric

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
414
Full group > 8 .. perhaps 10 or 12

Imho:

Positives:

-- Would mean that casual gamers would be more likely to get groups
whereas in the past

-- Would mean some classes, that might be considered luxuary util
classes for grouping purposes, could be part of a group : a.k.a
Friars, Body Cabby, Scout, Reaver, Smite Cleric (just for example)

-- Groups having a fuller list of abilities, that are commonly forsaken
in order to make space for what are percieved to be 'essential'
classes in order to be able to compete.

-- Perhaps redresses the class-utility imbalance for Alb

Negatives:

-- Power gamers would fill the enlarged group with more outright
damage dealers, debuffers, a huge assist train, a dedicated buff
shearer, or 3x more druids with Group Purge.

Bear in mind 'part' of the above is already partly true with the advent
of the Croc Tear ring. You often get Hib/Mid/Alb groups running in
greater than 8, with extra damage dealers and stealther adds in the
sphere of effect.

What I'm suggesting/discussing is the formalisation of this to incorp
them into the actual group to allow improved overall team utility.

As an aside, how many classes are considered non-group friendly in
RvR, or redundant, but that could provide a useful and potentially
battle-changing effect were they part of a group ?

People might say 'just level a croc-tear ring to 10 and run in two
groups' but this defeats the purpose of allowing unfashionable
classes building new group combat-tactics that compliment each
other in ways that simply haven't been explored.

This topic may have been 'done to death' before, I've looked on the
forum and not been able to find anything, but regardless, there's
been nothing recent, so with an ever changing game with ever
growing combinations/abilities - what are people's views on this
given the current patch, and perhaps with one eye on NF.
 

Loxleyhood

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,228
Albion: Would easily be able to fit in all the group utilities. Positive.

Hibernia: More chanters.

Midgard: More healers.

It would also make it much more difficult to produce whatever uber group set ups came into existance, and as a result there would be fewer groups running in Emain. It would also make me die a few fractions of a second quicker when I get zerged by them.

And you can make groups as large as you want. No Scout aint ever going to get in a proper group, and the groups that do invite me I consider below my dignity.
 

Xplo

Banned
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,200
2 clerics / friar / paladin / body sorc / mind sorc / 1 fire wizard / 2 mercs / 1 reaver

yes plz.
 

Black

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
131
Midguard more overpowered savages ofc not healurs ! =/
 

Light

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
692
croc ring doesn't quite have the same effect - tag alongs don't really get the resists, heals and necessarily the rp share.
 

AngelHeal

Part of the furniture
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
3,757
well, I very often see mids and albs running aaround like this: fg + bb for the sheer and rezz due egg :x or i saw 1 group running with scout for the fast interupts (that fast arrow shooting stuff;D)
 

Loxleyhood

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,228
Rapid Fire. Can't see that being very effective. Casters have a habit of quickcasting mes/stun/ns on any archers that prove a problem.
 

Aeoric

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
414
Light said:
croc ring doesn't quite have the same effect - tag alongs don't really get the resists, heals and necessarily the rp share.

Aye thats exactly what I was saying,

i.e. People might say : extra damage deployment is already in effect
via croc ring, but this does not take into account the implicit benefits
of being in a group. Thus I am saying exactly that a fg >8 is more than
just extra damage/healers, its the other implicit benefits that you'd get
from the enlarged group that I would like to see..
 

Aeoric

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
414
Originally posted by Woxwy
Rapid Fire. Can't see that being very effective. Casters have a habit of quickcasting mes/stun/ns on any archers that prove a problem.

Personally I'd take a scout in any group if I could,
there are usually a wealth of rps to be had from
those b@st@rd stealthers camping the mg's.

They can provide rapid or AoE interrupts, and
they can stealth up and run ahead or stay behind
to relay info.
 

liloe

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
4,168
A truly interesting question. More groupslots could either mean more diversity or more specialized setups. The diversity aspect is ofc something that would make fighting more interesting, but I'm a bit afraid of the more specialized setups. A damage heavy setup would mean, that a group could kill faster than any healing class can ever deal with. Maybe it would work if the new catacombs classes had such a high utility but low dmg output, that they'd be like a must-have for the new spots (but then again, this would suck for the other classes).

I see the problem in the number of available "features" and classes. So rather than having more spots in a group, I'd prefer having the "features" spread wider among the classes. Sounds strange, let me give an example. I will take Albion as example here, cause they seem to be the realm where most people complain about groupsetup. My favourite example here is the friar, which many consider as an inferior healing class, thus prefering to keep him outside the group. Let's say the friar was giving a spreadheal with same or slightly lower delve than a cleric, this would mean that a group could either pick a cleric as secondary buffer or a friar, thus getting elemental resists without loosing healing power. This as small example.

Generally I think every type of speed should be exactly the same, allowing multiple classes to be swiched. Ofc the current primary speed classes should get something in return to keep them attractive (the skald is already very unpopular and should get new things as group benefit I think). Same for mezz spells. They should have a maximum duration of 30secs, but in return determination should be off the game (same for root). These changes would mean, that a group could choose among a much wieder selection of classes, reducing the sometimes innsane waiting times for groups.

Sure changes would have to be made with great precaution, so that no class is left with duties that others can always accomplish better, but to be honest, I don't think Mythic can ever do that :( The other question would ofc be, if players wanted that cause it could mean that some classes would have a completely new duty (imagine a light eld on primary mezzing or a healing bard).

Well that was a long post now and I want to be honest. I only made it cause I was waiting for food. Everyday, when I play the game, I come up with lots of ideas but truly, I don't think player thoughts will ever have a huge impact on this game. The question itself was interesting, though, so at least I can share my opinion =)
 

Loxleyhood

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,228
Aeoric said:
Personally I'd take a scout in any group if I could,
there are usually a wealth of rps to be had from
those b@st@rd stealthers camping the mg's.

They can provide rapid or AoE interrupts, and
they can stealth up and run ahead or stay behind
to relay info.

But will be nothing but a liability in FG v FG.
 

censi

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
4,632
reason I have never really done FG rvr is that I just hate fooking waiting around for people. If I get the urge to play an MMRPG I want to log on and play it. and when im bored I log off and play it. With daoc you get that urge and you already have to overcome the frustration of the fact you need 15 minutes of travel time to get to the money spots (and thats 15 minutes of just buffing and moving). With FG you can literally add 10-30 mins prep time to get that group set with right classes, and everytime you die theres a big chance someone will log. I guess lots of people that log on to daoc to RVR for an evening probably spend say 15 mins actually in combat for around every 4 hours they play(just a guess).

10 man groups would make the above scenario worse.

tbh i completly hate the group concept. UO was infinetly more pick up and playable. (not that daoc is bad, just not everyones cup of tea)
 

Larc

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
304
Aeoric said:
blabla...-- Perhaps redresses the class-utility imbalance for Alb....blablabla...

This is a misconception. All realms have some classes that have low util.
 

Kinzana

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
148
censi said:
reason I have never really done FG rvr is that I just hate fooking waiting around for people. If I get the urge to play an MMRPG I want to log on and play it. and when im bored I log off and play it. With daoc you get that urge and you already have to overcome the frustration of the fact you need 15 minutes of travel time to get to the money spots (and thats 15 minutes of just buffing and moving). With FG you can literally add 10-30 mins prep time to get that group set with right classes, and everytime you die theres a big chance someone will log. I guess lots of people that log on to daoc to RVR for an evening probably spend say 15 mins actually in combat for around every 4 hours they play(just a guess).

10 man groups would make the above scenario worse.

tbh i completly hate the group concept. UO was infinetly more pick up and playable. (not that daoc is bad, just not everyones cup of tea)

:eek7:
 

Rulke

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,237
The ability to shoot through BG while BGing someone yourself isn't to be sniffed at. Some scouts even do good damage I heard.
 

liloe

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
4,168
Rulke said:
The ability to shoot through BG while BGing someone yourself isn't to be sniffed at. Some scouts even do good damage I heard.

nice new radar stuff rulke =)
 

Mithryn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Messages
459
I very good scout I knew back on my very first server was specced 50 bow, 42 shield, 39 slash. Ofcourse, he was a highlander and always lead his group around (non-stealther group), I assume he would benefit alot from going Battlemaster :)
 

Tilda

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
5,755
Loxleyhood said:
But will be nothing but a liability in FG v FG.
FC ran with a scout in a group for a while, when they still had a few playing. It was very very effective as he'd just hand back and knock down healers/casters while the assist train occupied the attentions of their group.

Tilda
 

censi

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
4,632
nah archers still sux in grps really.

scouts maybe could be semi handy
 

Loxleyhood

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,228
Tilda said:
FC ran with a scout in a group for a while, when they still had a few playing. It was very very effective as he'd just hand back and knock down healers/casters while the assist train occupied the attentions of their group.

Tilda

Arcofirme and Arcthic unless I'm mistaken. That was a long, long time ago. Would FC run with Scouts now? Would New Order?
 

- English -

Resident Freddy
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
5,263
Loxleyhood said:
Arcofirme and Arcthic unless I'm mistaken. That was a long, long time ago. Would FC run with Scouts now? Would New Order?

no as NO play mid, where scouts are alb etc
and i doubt fc would, they got ghala :>

sorry, had to pwn you :p
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom