Warrior Stances

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Gray, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. Gray

    Gray FH is my second home

    I suppose this could in effect mirror the thread about the Warrior Talents but i dont know, might as well start afresh for it.

    Slowly but surely ive not started to develope my Warrior Character perfectly using the Battle Stance. I have used this stance since i was right at the beginning, up to now (Level 47).

    All the parties that i have been in, i didnt feel the need for having to actually change the stances, up until today. On 2 occasions while doing different quests (Elites and Dungeon) i had 2 people telling me to switch to Defensive stance and take the attacks off them and onto me.

    At that time, i knew what they was saying, but i just kept saying "Why, Why, Why..." It didnt bother me too much, i mean, ive gelled pretty well using the current stance i have, why change now?

    Then it occured to me... Maybe being mid-level, all the monsters, the elites, the dungeons weren't really that bad, but now since im moving into the last hurdle of the game, things are heating up fast, and the pressure piles on.

    Fair to say, i have indeed at least tested the Defensive and Berserker stances before, but i didnt find them too much to my liking. Mainly because the talents et al which i have grown fond of, are not actually part of the stances in one way or another.

    Then some people have said do hot-switching during battles, to which ive done, but i did not like what so ever mainly due to the fact that my Rage Bar zeroes itself down upon change, making it extremely tedious if i were to try doing them there special attacks ive changed stances to get.

    More than likely, because of the Rage bar resetting, that is the one and only main reason as to why i dont like switching stances.

    Has any other warrior come to this problem yet? What is it like to actually switch between stances from your own points
     
  2. SevenSins

    SevenSins Fledgling Freddie

    It's simple, a Warriors main job (if only 1 present) in the "higher" end instances only has 1 role: Tanking.

    Tanking is to be done in Defensive stance due to taking less damage; being able to forcefully peel (taunt) mobs of groupmates, and to be able to disarm/use Shieldwall whenever needed, and to hold great agro with the Shield Block > Revenge combo (best agro getter in those instances).

    If you tank in battle or berserker stance you care too much about damage and you won't hold agro if that Hunter or Mage or Rogue gets a juicy crit, stop caring about doing damage, start taking damage.

    Also, what talents could you possibly "be fond of" outside the Arms tree if you have not gotten Tactical Mastery? I'd love to see someone DPS as Protection spec (which you seem to care about :p).

    Incase you don't know what Tactical Mastery is (please do not let this be true, your level 47 for gods sake :p) Level 5 allows you to keep up to 25 rage upon switching stances.
     
  3. Mirari

    Mirari Fledgling Freddie

    Stances in my opinion is not really about choosing one then go "I like this one so I'm just gonna use this one".

    In theory you can just stay with one stance, but you aren't gonna be a succesful warrior doing so. There is three stances there so that you can be able to cope with situations the best possible way.

    Got a badass elite making minced meat of your caster? Switch to defensive and shield then taunt the bastard off him.
    Going solo shredding mobs around your lvl? Use battle stance for overpower, execute and so on, a balanced stance.
    Just feeling in the mood to wreck something? Wreck something real good? Go berserker stance and smish undeads to your hearts content.

    The stances are there to give you options and alternatives to getting the absolutely most out of your warrior, using only one of them will really put you far below the effectiveness of a warrior using them all, since the stances not only contain effects such as less dmg taken and dealt for defensive stance. As you must know they enable other skills such as shield wall, taunt, revenge and so on.

    As previous poster mentioned, try tactical mastery :)
     
  4. Lakashnik

    Lakashnik Fledgling Freddie

    tactical mastery > all
    couldnt live without this. i do have a habit of building up alot of rage and 4getting to use it then switching and only haveing 25rage but my god if i didnt have that 25rage i would hate switching.
    i switch constantly in fights. so does many of my warrior friends.
    if im tanking i usually charge switch to defensive then just sit it out with blocks and revenges. do shit all dps but i can hold agro loverly. usually only time gotta use taunt is to take a extra mob on me or to stop the mob going for our squishy mage who just got a stupidly high crit on him :p
    it sounds like ur just talking about pve atm. but am sure u would try pvp later. and switching stances in pvp is insane. battle has things like rend and hamstring etc. defensive has disarm and stuff if ur fighting another melee char. zerker has zerker rage good against priest and warlocks and has pummel good against any caster. intercept ofc owns.

    if ur abit scared of trying a new talent spec. just wait for the talent tree updates and use it as a free respec to try out wht u want. i heartily endorse getting Tactical mastery. and if u dont like ur new spec u can always just respec back for minimum cost.
     
  5. Gray

    Gray FH is my second home

    Well ive had a look around somewhat, does seem like an idea to used the Tactical Masteries, would save a lot of aggro.

    The problem is, im sure i was told to just stick to one Talent Tree - Which i have done. Ive put all the points i have into the Fury tree. Now looking through my Fury tree though, i can see things there which may not actually be needed as such (The "keep to this tree" routine).

    Now, if say the Arms tree would be useful, which has some of the other stuff, then great, perhaps i could go 50/50 on each of them. This is absolutely perfect as from what someone said, the update is being released tomorrow, and because of all the "major" changes being made to the warrior talents, its all being reset.

    Now if they are making significant changes, it could cause problems on "What i should use" possibly. I have checked some guides, and each one starts with..

    "If you're being a tank, use a shield!" Now, im a 2h Axe user, so that flaws the rest of the guides most probably, so i gave up on that one.

    When i have a bit of time tomorrow, before actually changing the talents, i'll read what they do, and mark them down on maybe a piece of paper, to get a rough idea of were i will end up with "the final product"

    But, what tree would anyone suggest? The Arms or the Fury? or a bit of both?
     
  6. stubbyrulz

    stubbyrulz Fledgling Freddie

    you need 5/5 in tactical mastery if your gonna be switching stances at all. You also want to use a shield if your tanking it reduces the damage done to you alot and makes the healers job alot easyer also use defensive stance
     
  7. Danya

    Danya Fledgling Freddie

    A mixture of multiple trees is generally best. I don't think there's any class that benefits from putting all their points in one.
    And yeah, you need a shield. You can't tank with a 2 hander, and you're not going to be invited to groups to do anything but tank.
     
  8. Mirari

    Mirari Fledgling Freddie

    Heres the specc I am going for, mostly fury as you can see, but also quite a bit in arms to get Tactical Mastery, Impale and Improved Overpower. This is however just an example of spreading out talents to more than one tree :)

    The most popular and quite effective talent specc atm is the Mortal Strike one, meaning that you go for 31 in arms talents and 20 in fury. This will give you the final talent in the arms talent tree; Mortal Strike. You can see exactly what it does ingame, but more or less an instant attack also reducing heal effectiveness on the target to 50% :) This specc relies on crits, and a slow 2h weapon from what I've noticed. (preferably Arcanite Reaper)
     
  9. Whisperess

    Whisperess Part of the furniture

    You can do both.

    1. Use your 2h axe when you're solo or not the main tank. (and Battle/Berzerker stances where they apply)

    2. Use a shield when you're the main tank, in defensive stance (unless going for a quick swap for a useful skill), no exceptions, no "but"s - use the shield; even if you're not protection spec.

    It might not have been completely apparent yet, but trust me; you'll notice the difference a ton once you start going to BRD and above.
     
  10. Gef

    Gef Fledgling Freddie

    Stances are vital, you have certain key skills in each which you need to win PvP fights.

    Battle Stance: Charge, Overpower, Execute
    Defensive Stance: Revenge, Shield Block, Taunt, Disarm
    Bezerker Stance: Intercept, Whirlwind, Bezerker Rage, Execute

    Defensive is almost purely a PvE stance, you generate more hate from ALL attacks in this stance and take 10% less damage. Appart from disarm which is invaluable in PvP, a quick flick to defensive stance, disarm the alreadly hamstrung/rend'ed rogue and he is screwed for 10 secs.

    Battle stance is obvious, you need to start in this anyway for Charge, but what do you do when that mage blinks after your first charge? Flip to Bezerker, Intercept, just this combo alone is the reason Tactical Mastery is absolutely essential. When he dodges, flip to Battle stance and Overpower. You need that initial 25 rage in order to do any of this.

    Bezerker stance is a strange one, if you know there are Rogues or you see a priest/warlock in the area its sometimes best to just switch to this right away. Bezerker rage will break fear and sap, but your a lot weaker in this stance, taking an extra 10% so you have to weigh up the odds. Generally use this stance against mages, priests, druids and warlocks, classes you need to output as much damage as possible in a short space of time to kill. (i.e Crit)

    You also need to remember your 'Big 3' skills, Retalliation, Shield Wall and Recklessness. Each can only be used in their respective stance. My favourite is Recklessness, if you see a shaman or some other class you know you'll have problems with, flip to bezerker stance, neck a rage potion, Intercept, hit recklessness, whirlwind, mortal strike, game over.

    Anyway thats a bit of a rant but take it from me stance dancing is a MUST for all Warriors, as is Tactical Mastery. I still find it unbelievable that we have to spend 5 points on it, its like forcing a rogue to spend 5 talent points before they can stealth.
     
  11. Jupitus

    Jupitus Old and short, no wonder I'm grumpy! Staff member Moderator FH Subscriber

    Hi Gray!

    drop into #freddyshouse on irc this evening or over the weekend and we can get you onto the FH teamspeak server, if you like. I can then give you as much advice as I can without having to type reams of it here when I'm meant to be working ...
     
  12. k9awya

    k9awya Can't get enough of FH

    you will pvp in berserker stance, 99% of the time

    doesnt mean you need full fury talents, mortal strike spec with enrage is still the best
     
  13. mank!

    mank! Part of the furniture

    If you're a Warrior who doesn't use 1h + shield in defensive stance when doing instances, delete your character and reroll as a mage or rogue.
     
  14. Ralgedi Smurf

    Ralgedi Smurf One of Freddy's beloved

    tsk tsk such narrow minded, a warrior specced arms / fury with a nice 2h wep is one of the best dmg dealers in the game in endgame pve/raid content.

    And in many of the later instances you often have more then one warrior with you so why would you run around with your shield if you aint main tank

    but yes if you are only tank, use shield :)
     
  15. Afran

    Afran Part of the furniture

    He probably meant main tank.
     
  16. Sanzor

    Sanzor Fledgling Freddie

    2h is nice, but dual wield warriors deal way more damage, especially if they are sword specced.
     
  17. Lakashnik

    Lakashnik Fledgling Freddie

    most people that duel wield go fury spec.
    and i think altho maybe wrong not looked in awhile. that if ur going 31fury for the end talent that being able to get sword spec would be out of reach for 20pnts in arms. unless ofc u plan to not go full fury.
     
  18. Gef

    Gef Fledgling Freddie

    Over time duel weild does more damage yes, but for PvP its all about being able to take people down quickly. You simply cant do that with duel weild, there is no way to burst damage.

    Mortal Strike and a big 2 hander is killer, 1300-1500hp crits.

    You also have to consider the miss rate with Duel Weild, which is not only very annoying, it also means you have more chance to miss with critical skills such as hamstring etc.
     
  19. SevenSins

    SevenSins Fledgling Freddie

    Skills are not affected by the Dual Wield miss rate.

    Dual Wield miss rate is only for non-skill melee hits, so this excludes MS/Bloodthirst/Hamstring/Heroic Strike and so on.

    All skills have a default miss rate of 5%, and are not affected by you wearing 2 small axes or just 1 big axe.
     
  20. Spankya

    Spankya Fledgling Freddie

    If I make a good group for an instance, it will consist of 1 warrior, 1 paladin, 1 priest, 1 mage/rogue and 1 of any class. If the warrior doesnt use defensive stance the group is going to pay... mage and priest will get hit meaning things get messy, I have to heal meaning I'm not doing any damage, mage wont be able to do much damage whilst he/she is getting bashed and the priest will struggle with healing. Whereas if the warrior uses def stance, taunts the mobs onto him, everyone can do their job properly and not get interupted. I dont mind tanking a mob or 2 but its not normally too wise as paladins are too great at taunting.

    So morale of the story is... yes you do need different stances for different situations. Def stance for groups, other stances for solo/damage dealing.
     

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