Warning for those who can't spec weapons. :)

[-Wedge-]

This is what happend when a Cleric (48) attacked a Warrior (50) on Bors (us server):

http://camelot.destroyed.net/chat.txt

The warrior is Shield/Parry specced... and the Warrior was unbuffed... (names have been changed though)

It was just for testing, the cleric wanted to see how his offense does against the defense of the warrior which would be why the warrior wasn't fighting back much...

 

[Quemine]

Block/parry still don't work very good against styles, but they work way too good against non-styled attacks. So many thanks to mythic for their "fix", now give my poor healer a style...

 

[-Wedge-]

I was looking at this and found it kind of funny... I dont know how much parry / blocking happens you attack with styles (its not my warrior)...

What I found very intresting though is at 12:08:21, the cleric casts Bunker of Faith (Realm Ability), if you look, damage drops from 70-80 to 20-30...

Thats very nice...

 

[SilverHood]

seems silly that a cleric should be able to hit a warrior who has fully specced weapon

way to go mythic

 

[Flimgoblin]

emmm? eh?

why shouldn't the cleric be able to hit?

point is he doesn't hit much (due to blocks and parrys)

oh it is possible to block/parry styles, just it's harder than normal I think.

The main reason noone parries in RvR is that you're effectively parrying at 1/8th of what you should be...

 

[Tagetes]

<sighs> Reading that doesn't suprise me at all

I have a screenshot somewhere I saved under the name 'How shit are Clerics in fights?' It's from the Barbarian room in the Barrows when I was level 41/42.

Damn, I wish I could find it.

 

[svar]

What the heck is wrong with you guys? You want to heal, rezz, buff, smite, mezz AND beat warriors in melee? I mean hello any melee class should be UNTOUCHABLE by any healer class. One of few points in this game that Mythic actually got right.

 

[wolvon fury]

Do the same test with a Friar

 

[old.Pempula]

Did I understand correctly that the healer in the test was only level 48, so 2 levels lower than the warrior? If so, of course, the tank is almost untouchable. Then again the cleric does get SOME hits in.
You should also understand that IF there were 2 (or more) e.g. clerics attacking the tank the number of hits should dramatically increase as the tank will not be able to parry and block (partly depending on shield size) as much. Also, if I understand correctly there's some kind of a to-hit-bonus when multiple people are attacking the same target. In addition to this, I believe there is a positional to-hit bonus, so 2 clerics, each attacking the tank from different sides (or one from behind) should get even more hits in (this isn't all that easy to achieve as people tend to move when they fight...).

 

[-Wedge-]

This test was done on a US server, e.g. 1.52, that means that the hit-modifier has been removed...

So a level 1 has the same chance to hit a level 50 as a level 50... But he will hit for 0 or 1 damage...

Dont take this too serious, its just funny to see that a cleric has no way in hell to take down tanks that spec in parry/shield if it comes down to melee... (actually any class that cant spec in weapons wont be able to take down a parry/shield tank in melee)

Also, before people get freaky about the smite damage that this cleric does, the cleric only has 10 in Smite... Thats why damage is so low...

I posted it as a bit of funny info, not as a whine/whatever... Am I the only one that thinks its funny that even after 30 mins, the warrior is still standing?

 

[svartalf]

Does nobody else find it disturbing that, depending on Mythic's whim, you can be a gimp or totally uber come patchday.

 

[old.chesnor]

Although this is grim reading, look at it this way. Warriors spend shit load of points on block and/or parry. Healers/Clerics etc.. spend nish on weapon, so it stands to reason they won't be uber with an specced weapon against a class that has to spend 100s of skill points on defensive skills. Also, if a cleric/healer/shaman or whatever is meleeing a class that specs weapon AND block/parry then something is badly wrong.

Unspecced weapon users will still hit casters/other classes that dont spec defensive skills as often as they always have, but to me it makes sense that a Healer/Cleri/Shaman etc.. can't soften up a tank with ranged spells then finish off with melee now.

This is a game Mythic intend you play in groups, if your Clerics/Healers/Bards/Shaman are up the front battering people with their pathetic weapons, you're doing it wrong guys

 

[Anu]

Don't forget self dmg buffs :x .. 10dps to a lvl 50 Dr00d

 

[old.chesnor]

Self buffs are pretty useless against peeps with block/parry as you only dmg add if you hit

 

[Tigerius]

The Cleric is by nature designed as a partially offensive partially defensive class, the reason our smite got nerfed was officially that it didn't go well hand in hand with our melee ability (melee ability of course doesn't work well for any casting class due to weapon delay), this sort of points out that our melee ability is a moot point, as is our smite soon. Which leaves the cleric a totally defensive class.

GG @ deciding how to play my char Mythic.

 

[svar]

As it should be, imo. Do you see any healers/druids running around solo beating the crap out of anyone? I sure dont.

 

[SilverHood]

well, Zapsi the lvl 50 healer took on a lvl 50 paladin some time ago... won as well

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Tigerius
The Cleric is by nature designed as a partially offensive partially defensive class, the reason our smite got nerfed was officially that it didn't go well hand in hand with our melee ability (melee ability of course doesn't work well for any casting class due to weapon delay), this sort of points out that our melee ability is a moot point, as is our smite soon. Which leaves the cleric a totally defensive class.
B]

lol, you speak such rubbish.

Tigerius, go look at the Smite line please. Look at it how it is now, don't compare it to how it once was. Look at these two, for example :-

42 Greater Judgement 108 3 sec. 30P Enemy
43 Greater Holy Fury 176 4 sec. 31P Enemy

A 108+176 dd, hardly the spells of a defensive class? Get a clue mate.

 

[old.Arnor]

I just read the .txt file, and let me be the first to say:
MUAHAHAHHHHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAHA

Ahhhh



clerics PLEASE go more melee in RvR, dont just stun-nuke-nuke-nuke-stun-nuke

 

[old.Arnor]

well, Zapsi the lvl 50 healer took on a lvl 50 paladin some time ago... won as well

You mean Zapsi the lvl 50 healer took on a lvl 50 gimpadin

 

[Eblessair]

lol
reminds me of a duel on gorre
block, parry block block miss block HIT parry block

 

[Nala Lionne]

My cleric could take on a fully health even level skald in one on one combat.

Both lvl 43, was no problems.

I think I also managed it against a same level thane too, its not much of a problem, unless they changed something since then. Which they probably did

 

[cerindra]

well....to be honest this doesnt surprise me, as everyone says clerics aint a melee class, as my 50 cleric the only people i cant solo are skalds (because they can mez and run away at any time...)
oh and...im not saying i have 1vs1 every class, just ive never lost.

it depends on how you play your character, and before every1 complains we r overpowered that isnt true, we just happen to be good in 1vs1 compared to healer being good at CC, but some will complain anyway...

the only reason i play the gamenow is just for the fun i get 1vs1 in rvr, sometimes if i get lucky with spells i can take on 2 shadowblades and it feels cool to kill 2 stealthers and get 3000 odd points in a matter of minutes, but then again they should know better.....(waiting for the whining.....)

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


lol, you speak such rubbish.

Tigerius, go look at the Smite line please. Look at it how it is now, don't compare it to how it once was. Look at these two, for example :-

42 Greater Judgement 108 3 sec. 30P Enemy
43 Greater Holy Fury 176 4 sec. 31P Enemy

A 108+176 dd, hardly the spells of a defensive class? Get a clue mate.

No m8, it's the spells of a GIMPED class. 43 spec to get a spell not on par with baseline nukes of other offensive classes?

I admit I was wrong, we can be defensive or we can be totally gimped. For me the second isn't an option though, so that leaves a forced defensive class.

I'm going to repost a nice little chart here over different classes DD dmg as of 1.51.

BASE 50 Cleric = 42.33 dmg/CT sec (Post-1.51d)
SPEC 43 Cleric = 44 dmg/CT sec (Post-1.51d)
BASE 50 Cleric = 51 dmg/CT sec (Pre-1.51d)
SPEC 48 Cleric = 56.25 dmg/CT sec (Pre-1.51d)
BASE 47 Eldritch = 57.3 dmg/CT sec (Void)
BASE 48 Runemaster = 58.7 dmg/CT sec (Rune)
BASE 50 Runemaster = 60 dmg/CT sec (Dark)
BASE 43 Spiritmaster = 60 dmg/CT sec
BASE 50 Mentalist = 69.2 dmg/CT sec
BASE 50 Enchanter = 69.2 dmg/CT sec
BASE 50 Eldritch = 69.2 dmg/CT sec (Light)
SPEC 47 Wizard = 73.3 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 45 Eldritch = 74.6 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 47 Theurgist = 74.6 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 45 Sorceror = 75 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 45 Mentalist = 75 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 47 Runemaster = 78.6 dmg/CT sec

Add 10% range and 10% crit for all but Cleric.

Now I know you will go ranting about you have this and that and that and this, but when a class puts 43 spec into one line, a class that just like other casters only has 1x spec, and for that recieves a joke in comparison? You can argue that Clerics shouldn't have DDs, maybe not speccable ones, but when the option is there to be specced the returns should be on par with what other classes of equal (1x) spec points recieve for their spec. The lack of upfront dmg in the smite line is by no means countered by utility either.

 

[old.chesnor]

Yeah but Tigerius mate, Clerics get to wear chain, and run around the frontiers with a medium shield and a hammer. Plus they have loads of self buffs (more than any pure caster), heals and 2 insta heals. Its kinda given that the dmg output of your offensive spell line won't be equal that of pure casters, or what point would there be in those classes?

 

[old.BigBadButch]

Not to mention the insta DD, insta mezz (even if it is on a crappy timer), twice the HPs of a robed caster, better to-hit and damage table... the list goes on... and on...

If you think you're gimped after the Smite changes, try a Shaman

 

[Tigerius]

A cloth caster who chooses to not be the absolute least con-race (Avlonian, Elf, Kobold) and like I focuses items on HP will easily go beyond 50% of a Clerics HP.

Hammer+Shield (useless?). It allows us 2 items to give good bonuses, but then caster staffs tend to stand out with good stats and shields/weapons don't for a unspecced melee class. Check the above log that started this on how useful the shield and hammer is in melee. Not alot I say

Chain? Yep, as the healing class we get to wear good armor. This is at the cost of not being a true caster, not getting QC, focus items, not same RA's, shorter range. A Hybrid caster simply. Good trade? I'd say so definately but not the end of any debate.

Instaheals and self buffs? Different speclines. Add alot into the char as a whole yes, but how should it affect the smite line? If we choose to spec broad for versatility then what's the problem with that? Having 3 good speclines, all quite suitable for speccing low (though not all for high), is cool. It doesn't warrant one of the speclines to be entirely sub-par spec for spec compared to similar lines. The smite line is especially after mez-nerf (all aspects of it) very poor compared to other dmg lines. Do you think that 1 DD is all those other casters get out of their lines? Hardly.

Our DD does by no means have to be evenly matched with a cloth-casters, but when it is closer to 50% than 75% and is the only thing useful a line gives it IS a gimped line. You can't say that a Cleric that pours 80% of his specpoints into one line that the only thing he should get out of it will still be laughable because he has other abilities in other lines. If the actual damage of the line is lowered, the overall utility of the line must be raised to keep the specline fairly intact. Now it's a pay more for less specline, that is by nature gimped.

Everything you say can be said for Healers compared to Sorcerers, who spec by spec gain LOADS more CC than the Alb CC counterpart. Why is that? He has chain, instaheals and selfbuffs. I'm sure you said that a Hybrid caster must have less value for spec than cloth casters because of their hybrid status. Or?