Warlock - ouch

[semanon]

Quoted from the warlock VN boards

-- Well people asked for logs so I made a Warlock because I couldnt find any to help me test . Anyway I got impatient and started testing at level 49.

Warlock is RR1 with MoM1, WP1, and MCL. He has no artis and I spent about 10 min picking up some stuff for him in housing (other equipment still from level 1-5 drops). He had usual red/yellow buffs. I had no experience playing him other then running to PLs.

Cleric is RR7 with decent gear. Has 2000hp and 26% matter resist.

07:13:25] You begin casting a Fixed Cast spell!
[07:13:25] You prepare a secondary spell!
[07:13:26] You cast a Chamber of Minor Fate Spell!
[07:13:26] You cast a Crushing Curse Spell!
[07:13:26] You hit for 286 (-111) damage!
[07:13:26] You cast a Greater Beguiled Hex Spell!
[07:13:26] Bck resists the effect!
[07:13:26] You cast a Fixed Cast Spell!
[07:13:26] You begin casting a Greater Beguiled Hex spell!
[07:13:26] You cast a Greater Beguiled Hex Spell!
[07:13:26] You hit for 538 (-209) damage!
[07:13:26] You cannot absorb any more life.
[07:13:28] You begin casting a Fixed Cast spell!
[07:13:28] You prepare a secondary spell!
[07:13:29] You cast a Chamber of Restraint Spell!
[07:13:29] You cast a Crushing Curse Spell!
[07:13:29] You hit for 296 (-115) damage!
[07:13:29] You cast a Greater Beguiled Hex Spell!
[07:13:29] You hit for 538 (-209) damage!
[07:13:29] You critical hit for an additional 161 damage!
[07:13:29] You cannot absorb any more life.
[07:13:29] You cast a Fixed Cast Spell!
[07:13:29] You begin casting a Greater Beguiled Hex spell!
[07:13:29] You cast a Greater Beguiled Hex Spell!
[07:13:29] You hit for 538 (-209) damage!
[07:13:29] Your duel ends!
[07:13:29] You just killed Bck!

Cleric dies 4 seconds after casting starts, and 3 seconds after first damage is scored. If someone else had DI up would be touch and go whether it would kick in in 3 seconds. Also note the resist of the first 538pt lifetap.

All casts were non-interruptible. Further, much of the damage is Lifetaps which would have kept me alive even if I was getting hit.

Personally I dont think some half assed level 49 should be able to kill real toons in 3 seconds. That it cant be interrupted is even funnier.

For my next post, maybe I will test my lvl 49 Warlock's pbae which has the same damage/range delve as a 48 spec mana chanter. Or my Warlocks spreadheal which delves equal to or greater then most clerics. --


ouch

 

[Tuppe]

normal caster can kill allready peep in 2.5 sec, 4 sec is plenty and even heavy tank goes down whit good crits.

dunno if there is yet any point start discussion here because we can only see spell listing, not how class itself works.
if you think some playermade video show reality? dont seen many videos where videomaker get killed, atleast i die alott in rvr

warlock is strong class but allso heretic, bainshee, vampiir is beating classic/si classes whitout big problem.

if mythic start "nerf/fix" warlock, how they gona do it? its working alott different what normal caster and there is danger make class worthless.
warlock is great class to mid, bringing range to keepfights where mids atm is lacking comparing other realms.
(who still remember when mid was only realm whitout pbaeo? and continuis farming trips what albs/hibs made to our keeps)

 

[Jeriraa]

Why does the livetap seem cap every time? (If it doesnt cap then at least it hits for the same every time.) Thats very unlikely for a non-opted casters isnt it?

Also the resist is 28% not 26%.


Other than that I guess each realm gets its stuff to whine about... how about castable Mastery of Stealth?

 

[Yma]

Hehehe ... this log is becoming famous, mostly because it demonstrates that people should just stick to play their classes, instead of doing laughable tests for stuff they don't understand (if it's not a cut and paste stuff as it seems). 28% might be because of racial resists - but I think all casters here would just drool about finding afk RR7 enemies with low resists, and 4 seconds to kill them.

I have a log where my healer kills my afk bd in few seconds ! Nerf my healer !

 

[Rackham_Panzer]

Does not seem very special that log imo. Getting hit by a lot harder nukes on a regular bases. I think that all should wait a few months after Warlocks have hit full power before trying to get them nerfed (as usual i might add).

 

[-TDA-Shaki]

Imo people cant scream for nerf until, sorcs rr 5 ability used with moc can kill my fully buffed/toa'd/ rr5 with 2750 hp in 3 secs with his lifetap has also been nerfed.

Toa made casters too powerful and months down the line we are seeing a class post toa that shows how poewrful casters really are.

If mythic nerfs this class then its time to move on, its about time midgard got a good caster class even though it lacks utility.

 

[Belomar]

Warlocks will be nerfed, though, I am afraid.

 

[Yeke]

OMG thats sick man killed by a caster in 4 seconds, like thats news......

seriously wtf? I get nuked down in that time by existing class's what makes the warlock any different I agree they MAY get nerfed but certainly not because they can kill people in 4 seconds.

 

[atos]

Belomar, what if they are? None of us mids will be playing much longer anyways. So in the end it really dosn't matter. =)


fyi, I've hit people for 80+250 too. It's all depends on resists and RAs.

 

[willowywicca]

Imo people cant scream for nerf until, sorcs rr 5 ability used with moc can kill my fully buffed/toa'd/ rr5 with 2750 hp in 3 secs with his lifetap has also been nerfed.

So they can scream for nerf right now then? Since what you stated is mathematically impossible for sorcs

Anyways, if you look at that log, he doesn't even cast at maximum speed.. ie there's a 1.x second delay between ending his first "fixed cast" spell and starting the 2nd one.. also his 2nd chamber was probably used a little late too (3 sec after first one according to log, 2 sec is the chamber delay afaik?)

Anyways, the point isn't merely the fact it's fast (yes all casters are fast, tho usually not until they've got aug dex 3+ under their belt) it's the fact that it cannot be interupted, and that it's merely a lvl49, not a lvl50 rr5+ toaed with dmg RAs doing it.. a high RR warlock with lots of dmg RAs should do some very insane damage tbh

 

[Ilum]

Its mathematically possible if sorc use str/con debuff And it's deffo mathematically possible with an ML9 pet as well

 

[-TDA-Shaki]

Its mathematically possible if sorc use str/con debuff And it's deffo mathematically possible with an ML9 pet as well

Exactly, ive seen sorcs in molvic )lvl 35-40) 5 4/5 shot warriors, why do alb scream for nerf as soon as we have a caster capable of matching a sorc ?

AOE bolt range mezz wins against zergs, most lvl 49's an higher dont have purge or higher and are useless for 30 secs+ whilst mezzed, and with yellow con pet on them whilst sorc lifetaps is fair against a rm ? Or a theurg which spams constant stun pets so you are always interupted? Give mid a break will you ?

Albs cry and mythic nerfs, well its last chance saloon for mids, noone ever sees savages etc after LA nerf, so who is gonna see warlocks after a supposed nerfs, most mids will reroll fotm alb or just go WOW!

Ive spent 60 days /played on my rm to get her rr5+ and fully toa'd and still is usless against a rr1 sorc whilst mezzed and then life tapped,(and dont forget interupt form aoe debuff) so dont go screaming nerf because we can spec a line which gives us uniteruptable casts than you very much!

 

[Ilum]

Exactly, ive seen sorcs in molvic )lvl 35-40) 5 4/5 shot warriors, why do alb scream for nerf as soon as we have a caster capable of matching a sorc ?

AOE bolt range mezz wins against zergs, most lvl 49's an higher dont have purge or higher and are useless for 30 secs+ whilst mezzed, and with yellow con pet on them whilst sorc lifetaps is fair against a rm ? Or a theurg which spams constant stun pets so you are always interupted? Give mid a break will you ?

Albs cry and mythic nerfs, well its last chance saloon for mids, noone ever sees savages etc after LA nerf, so who is gonna see warlocks after a supposed nerfs, most mids will reroll fotm alb or just go WOW!

Ive spent 60 days /played on my rm to get her rr5+ and fully toa'd and still is usless against a rr1 sorc whilst mezzed and then life tapped,(and dont forget interupt form aoe debuff) so dont go screaming nerf because we can spec a line which gives us uniteruptable casts than you very much!

Err, if you admit you have a class as strong as sorc u admit u need a nerf imo

Mids already have strong characters.

 

[Tiques]

Exactly, ive seen sorcs in molvic )lvl 35-40) 5 4/5 shot warriors, why do alb scream for nerf as soon as we have a caster capable of matching a sorc ?

AOE bolt range mezz wins against zergs, most lvl 49's an higher dont have purge or higher and are useless for 30 secs+ whilst mezzed, and with yellow con pet on them whilst sorc lifetaps is fair against a rm ? Or a theurg which spams constant stun pets so you are always interupted? Give mid a break will you ?

Albs cry and mythic nerfs, well its last chance saloon for mids, noone ever sees savages etc after LA nerf, so who is gonna see warlocks after a supposed nerfs, most mids will reroll fotm alb or just go WOW!

Ive spent 60 days /played on my rm to get her rr5+ and fully toa'd and still is usless against a rr1 sorc whilst mezzed and then life tapped,(and dont forget interupt form aoe debuff) so dont go screaming nerf because we can spec a line which gives us uniteruptable casts than you very much!

Seems you got one thing confused....

Overpowered = balance
This is not a true statement, here is how it goes:

Overpowered <> balance

No, the arguement sorcs are just as powerfull wont work, because:

1. a Overpowered character on each site do not balance out each other, as the Sorc > All other than Warlock = unfair and Warlock > all other than sorc = unfair
2. There is a 3rd realm, if you totally forgot the hibbies...
3. I can use this smiley
4. I have yet to see a sorcerer go and kill a character in a fg by using the element of surprice, as I have read on these boards that Warlocks are able to do...

 

[-TDA-Shaki]

4. I have yet to see a sorcerer go and kill a character in a fg by using the element of surprice, as I have read on these boards that Warlocks are able to do...

Really, do you actually rvr besides being on bled bridge ?

Running in odins/emain/Hadrains wall, encountered many an alb fg+ when sorc has mezzed our fg first due to range (and CB arti has no use due to AOE mezz spam), 1 sorc spams aoe mezz and interupts entire fg whilst rest of alb grp attacks, and when sorc stops spamming mezz, just lifetaps, sheez you complain about BD 1 button lifetap, farking hypocrites, have you seen a warlock take a fg of albs by suprise ? No i take it, then stfu and let me roll a warlock without you crying!

 

[Foadon]

Exactly, ive seen sorcs in molvic )lvl 35-40) 5 4/5 shot warriors, why do alb scream for nerf as soon as we have a caster capable of matching a sorc ?

AOE bolt range mezz wins against zergs, most lvl 49's an higher dont have purge or higher and are useless for 30 secs+ whilst mezzed, and with yellow con pet on them whilst sorc lifetaps is fair against a rm ? Or a theurg which spams constant stun pets so you are always interupted? Give mid a break will you ?

Albs cry and mythic nerfs, well its last chance saloon for mids, noone ever sees savages etc after LA nerf, so who is gonna see warlocks after a supposed nerfs, most mids will reroll fotm alb or just go WOW!

Ive spent 60 days /played on my rm to get her rr5+ and fully toa'd and still is usless against a rr1 sorc whilst mezzed and then life tapped,(and dont forget interupt form aoe debuff) so dont go screaming nerf because we can spec a line which gives us uniteruptable casts than you very much!

zerkers after LA nerf (WHICH NEEDED ONE) and savages after quadnerf (WHICH NEEDED ONE), altho the nerf was too hard for both? of them,
and debuffs dont interrupt anymore since last year and a half? dont make useless statements.
onwhinetopic : most ppl dont even care about warlocks since they dont see themselves play at the time they are introduced, as do I.

 

[ThroatSlitter]

I have a log where my healer kills my afk bd in few seconds ! Nerf my healer !

what a grey con?

 

[atos]

As the Warlock isn't 50 he is missing the lvl 50 baseline DD which would raise that damage quite a bit.

 

[willowywicca]

Ive spent 60 days /played on my rm to get her rr5+ and fully toa'd and still is usless against a rr1 sorc whilst mezzed and then life tapped,(and dont forget interupt form aoe debuff) so dont go screaming nerf because we can spec a line which gives us uniteruptable casts than you very much!

60 days and you haven't learned to try nearsighting the sorc before he mezzes you? Even grey nearsight would reduce his mezz range to meet your DD range.. more than 1 class being overpowered, you obviously just suck even as a warlock you'll probably suck too, however a warlock with decent player behind it is an altogether different matter x<

 

[willowywicca]

Its mathematically possible if sorc use str/con debuff And it's deffo mathematically possible with an ML9 pet as well

Erm with s/c it's not.. with ml9 pet too, it might be tho yes.

With s/c, lets assume it takes off 750 hits ( it doesn't, but even if it did it's impossible). That leaves the tank with 2000 hits. In 3 seconds the sorc can cast 2 lifetaps (yes the theoretical cap is 1 second, but really the closest you can get is 1.05~ seconds so yes,only 2 casts not 3).

That means the sorc has to do 1000 per cast. Assuming perfect critical hits, sorc must be doing 667 before crits. Since sorc is using moc, that means it's only 75% of normal damage. Thus sorc must be doing 888 nukes normally when not moccing (lol yeah, sorcs often do 888 without crits on toaed/full resist enemies). This is beyond the cap of a baseline lifetap. (with 14% toa dmg -traldor's charge- and mom5, lifetap cap is 705). Thus it is completely impossible.

Okay, including ml9 pet, pet will hit 1-2 times, doing 400~ per attack, now dmg per cast by the sorc needs to be 600, which is feasible (tho I'm exaggerating s/c debuff effect) if the enemy has no resists.. if the enemy has capped normal item resists (26%, but 16% effectively assuming sorc has capped pierce), assume again maximum crits.. giving 400dmg needed to be done per lifetap. This is when moc3ing, so normal damage has to have been 533 on 16% resists.. 533 on 16% resists is feasible (my rr11 caba can do this while having 2 power relics for a 10% bonus - however to do this you also need mom3~ and aug acuity 4~). mom3 and aug acuity4 is another 30 realm spec points.

So the sorc needs a minimum of rr7, 2 power relics, and to use ML9 and Moc3 and SoI.. and ofc you could just CC them when they moc3 and they can't afford purge.. unless you say they're rr8l5, then they can have purge2 also.. so yes, a rr8l5 ml9 sorc can achieve it, if he dumps every single ability he has on you.. (and assuming the s/c debuff is over exaggerated like I said)

Now, compare that to a rr1 lvl49 warlock.. oh I see!

 

[atos]

With warlock range on NS you wouldn't be close to NSing a sorc.

 

[willowywicca]

With warlock range on NS you wouldn't be close to NSing a sorc.

He was talking about his runie.. and with the standard warlock spec, using the range primer a warlock's range is only 75 or so units below normal NS isn't it?

Anyway a warlock doesn't need to NS a sorc, since if the sorc attacks he has to be at 1650 range.. and then the warlock can just chamber him back interupting the sorc (and probably taking off 1/2 his life too)

 

[Yeke]

With s/c, lets assume it takes off 750 hits ( it doesn't, but even if it did it's impossible). That leaves the tank with 2000 hits.

cleric isnt a tank though last time I looked, dont think a cleric can get 2750 hp's,
If your comparing the original log to a sorc verses a main tank If the warlock was fighting that same tank you would have to take into consideration that bolts can be blocked lifetaps cannot.

Anyhow I'd say a sorc could kill the same target as a warlock can at similar speed and yes maybe both need a nerf, but as I said before I'd prefer a nerf to casters in general, tanks just have no reason to play atm.

 

[Species]

60 days and you haven't learned to try nearsighting the sorc before he mezzes you? Even grey nearsight would reduce his mezz range to meet your DD range.. more than 1 class being overpowered, you obviously just suck even as a warlock you'll probably suck too, however a warlock with decent player behind it is an altogether different matter x<

little over 40 days to 7L5 here on my runie :x

 

[Ilum]

Erm with s/c it's not.. with ml9 pet too, it might be tho yes.

With s/c, lets assume it takes off 750 hits ( it doesn't, but even if it did it's impossible). That leaves the tank with 2000 hits. In 3 seconds the sorc can cast 2 lifetaps (yes the theoretical cap is 1 second, but really the closest you can get is 1.05~ seconds so yes,only 2 casts not 3).

That means the sorc has to do 1000 per cast. Assuming perfect critical hits, sorc must be doing 667 before crits. Since sorc is using moc, that means it's only 75% of normal damage. Thus sorc must be doing 888 nukes normally when not moccing (lol yeah, sorcs often do 888 without crits on toaed/full resist enemies). This is beyond the cap of a baseline lifetap. (with 14% toa dmg -traldor's charge- and mom5, lifetap cap is 705). Thus it is completely impossible.

Okay, including ml9 pet, pet will hit 1-2 times, doing 400~ per attack, now dmg per cast by the sorc needs to be 600, which is feasible (tho I'm exaggerating s/c debuff effect) if the enemy has no resists.. if the enemy has capped normal item resists (26%, but 16% effectively assuming sorc has capped pierce), assume again maximum crits.. giving 400dmg needed to be done per lifetap. This is when moc3ing, so normal damage has to have been 533 on 16% resists.. 533 on 16% resists is feasible (my rr11 caba can do this while having 2 power relics for a 10% bonus - however to do this you also need mom3~ and aug acuity 4~). mom3 and aug acuity4 is another 30 realm spec points.

So the sorc needs a minimum of rr7, 2 power relics, and to use ML9 and Moc3 and SoI.. and ofc you could just CC them when they moc3 and they can't afford purge.. unless you say they're rr8l5, then they can have purge2 also.. so yes, a rr8l5 ml9 sorc can achieve it, if he dumps every single ability he has on you.. (and assuming the s/c debuff is over exaggerated like I said)

Now, compare that to a rr1 lvl49 warlock.. oh I see!

I was calculating with 3 casts not 2, makes more sense since the casting cap is 1 sec...since we're talking mathematical theory here.

Cap with moc = 528 (if MoC affects cap, I think it does atleast), perfect crit = 793. 3 nukes = 2349 dmg.

Anyway, I'm not saying warlocks arent overpowered, they need a nerf. I'm just saying sorcs are overpowered too, and need a nerf as well And if you go "omg warlocks, finally we have a class as good as sorc"...if u admit its as good as sorc, u admit it needs a nerf as well imo ^^

 

[GrisomWarshadow]

im actually looking forward to the whine threads when warlocks hit euro servers tbh gonna make 1 myself getting a guild grp together for lvling some new classes/old ones

 

[willowywicca]

I was calculating with 3 casts not 2, makes more sense since the casting cap is 1 sec...since we're talking mathematical theory here.

Cap with moc = 528 (if MoC affects cap, I think it does atleast), perfect crit = 793. 3 nukes = 2349 dmg.

Anyway, I'm not saying warlocks arent overpowered, they need a nerf. I'm just saying sorcs are overpowered too, and need a nerf as well And if you go "omg warlocks, finally we have a class as good as sorc"...if u admit its as good as sorc, u admit it needs a nerf as well imo ^^

Very well then, assuming you can reach the 1 sec cap, you would then require aug dex5 to hit the dmg of 528 you state, you still need the dmg RAs I mentioned previously, or similar. thus you now need to be rr11l9. gw.

 

[Ilum]

Very well then, assuming you can reach the 1 sec cap, you would then require aug dex5 to hit the dmg of 528 you state, you still need the dmg RAs I mentioned previously, or similar. thus you now need to be rr11l9. gw.

which means its mathematically possible

and afaik 386 dex is enuff to hit cap? so for most sorcs only dex2 or dex3 needed? and the only dmg ra you need is mom5, perfect crit 3 times in a row is theoretically possible withhout wild power at all, capping is possible without any aug acuity etc

 

[willowywicca]

which means its mathematically possible

and afaik 386 dex is enuff to hit cap? so for most sorcs only dex2 or dex3 needed? and the only dmg ra you need is mom5, perfect crit 3 times in a row is theoretically possible withhout wild power at all, capping is possible without any aug acuity etc

I'm at 380 dex 10% cast and casting somewhere in the 1.1x region.. so no, 386 isn't enough imo x<

And no, capping isn't possible without AA on a target with full item resists (which is what the original poster stated). And yes, I never mentioned wp at all since it's not required to crit..

 

[Ilum]

I'm at 380 dex 10% cast and casting somewhere in the 1.1x region.. so no, 386 isn't enough imo x<

And no, capping isn't possible without AA on a target with full item resists (which is what the original poster stated). And yes, I never mentioned wp at all since it's not required to crit..

Im just saying it's mathematically possible and u said it wasnt, so I am right u are wrong ahahahahHAHAHAhahAHHAhahahahHA