L
Lomald Umilinn
Guest
please not that this is not my test nor did i help with it, i found it on VNBoards and it was very very interesteing... heres the original post on vnboards, all credits shoulg go to the author:
I had done some previous parsing but decided to go back and get more trials to eliminate possibility of error, as well as answer two specific questions I had:
1. Does the halving effect take effect full time, or only when the offhand swings?
2. How is Dodger effected by this new information?
Brandyn Aquilius of the Safehouse, aka Taichi volunteered to beat on me on Pendragon so we could try to answer these questions.
Taichi's stats:
50+5 Thrust
1+13 DW (in test 3 & 4, this is upped to 50+13 DW)
202 Dex
160 Str
933 Weaponskill
RA's: Aug Dex 2 (included above), in test 3 & 4, Duelist Reflexes 3 is added.
Using 2.4 delay 16.5 dps 99% quality arcanium weapons, enchanted to 35%.
Unbuffed
Vexxen's stats:
50+14 Thrust
21+14 DW
210 Dex
170 Qui
550 AF
1025 Weaponskill
RA's: Aug Qui 2 (included above), in test 4, Dodger 4 is added.
Using MP armor with 35% bonus.
Unbuffed
Test 1
------
For the control group test, we ran 1099 trials. Brandyn equipped a shield in his offhand and attacked me only with his mainhand.
Attacks: 1099
Hits: 516 (47.0%)
Evades: 488 (44.4%)
Misses: 93 (8.5%)
Fumbles: 2 (.2%)
This establishes the baseline amount that I evaded; 44.4%. This should be applicable if a sword and board attacker or a 2h attacker is attacking me.
Test 2
------
The next test I had Brandyn equip 2 2.4 delay weapons and attack me dual weild. Brandyn's offhand skill at this time is 1+13.
Attacks: 1803
Hits: 1188 (65.9%)
Evades: 385 (21.4%)
Misses: 224 (12.4%)
Fumbles: 6 (.3%)
As you can see, merely equipping an offhand weapon has a halving effect on my evade rate.
Test 3
------
Wondering if even more spec in the offhand would lead to a better "debuffing" of an opponents evade ability, I had Brandyn run inside Camelot and train his unused points in Dual Weild. When he was done, he had 50+13 DW and Duelist Reflexes 3.
Attacks: 3768
Hits: 2402 (63.7%)
Evades: 865 (23.0%)
Misses: 482 (12.8%)
Fumbles: 19 (.5%)
As you can see, the evade rate here is a little under 2% higher then it was with 1+13 DW. I don't know quite what to make of this so we'll just call it statistical variation for now. The end result is the same, however. My evade rate for all intents and purposes has been halved.
Test 4
------
Now comes the big question: How does this effect Dodger, a RA shared by many classes? To this effect, I myself ran into Camelot and trained Dodger to level 4.
Attacks: 3087
Hits: 1886 (61.1%)
Evades: 779 (25.2%)
Misses: 408 (13.2%)
Fumbles: 14 (.5%)
This is disturbing. A level 50, fully spellcrafted assassin with Dodger 4 is only evading at 25.2% rate even though Evade 7 itself offers a 35% evade rate?
Conclusions
-----------
1. Dual Weild/Left Axe halve evade, or drastically reduce its percentage. One can probably assume Celtic Dual acts the same, but we have not seen any logs so we will not say for certain. This begs the question: Bug, or by design?
Some classes are adversely effected by this new knowledge. Critblade spec Shadowblades, for instance will be facing an opponent who can evade 50% of their attacks.. while the critblade will only be able to evade 25% of their attackers attacks, causing them to take more damage overall. This is one of the main factors in why Critblades are considered "gimp". Scouts suffer a DW penalty on both their shield and their evade. Etc.
Mythic has stated in the past that skills like shield were effected by dual weild. But we have never to-date seen anything stated about evade. An official response on this would be appreciated. Bug, or working as intended?
2. It does not matter how much or how little you have in your offhand skill. Merely having an offhand skill is enough to effectively halve your opponent's evade rate.
3. Dodger is not acting as described. The official description of Dodger on camelotherald.com says:
"Increases chance to evade by 3% per level."
Quite obviously, 23% + 12% does not equal 25%, which is the result we obtained.
What I believe is happening is that DAOC is taking my base evade rate 44%, adding Dodger 4 which is 12% additional evade, and then capping it at 50%. It is then dividing by 2 for the DW vs Evade penalty. And leaves me with a 25% evade chance.
At this time I do not recommend ANYTHING beyond Dodger 2 on any assassin, as no buffs at all were required to reach the cap. And Dodger itself is halved, or in my case worse - chopped into a fourth!
I certainly hope Mythic will investigate and make sure Dodger works as advertised. A simple fix would be to add Dodger AFTER the halving effect has taken place, and then apply the 50% evade cap. Then I'd end up with 23% + 12%, having Dodger 4. This assumes Mythic decides the halving effect on evade is 'working as intended'. If it's not, another approach will need to be taken.
Resources
---------
"Useful Evade Info" - Pythias_Kbld (VN)
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57498506&replies=58
"Dual Weild vs Evade tests" - Vexxen (VN)
http://pub146.ezboard.com/fthesafehousefrm19.showMessage?topicID=5062.topic
Vexxen's logs:
http://dpwebhosting.com/dracosdivinus/evtestvexlogs.htm
Taichi's logs:
http://dpwebhosting.com/dracosdivinus/evtesttailogs.htm
(Note: Brandyn had his log accidentally off for part of test 3 and 4 which is why you will see more trials on 'my side' of the logs. We are including his logs for those of you that wish to parse to see what percentage of each hand is evaded, and for independant verification purposes)
Thanks
------
Special thanks to Pythias_Kbld for posting the original info.
HrUUUUUuuUUUUUge thanks to Brandyn Aquilius of the Safehouse, aka Taichi for putting up with SIX GRUELING HOURS of parsing on Pendragon 10/12/03. Also special thanks to Brandyn for handling the hosting of the log files.
I can be reached on VN by PMing Vexxen or e-mail me at respect_mah_authoritay@hotmail.com
Vexxen / Lancelot
I had done some previous parsing but decided to go back and get more trials to eliminate possibility of error, as well as answer two specific questions I had:
1. Does the halving effect take effect full time, or only when the offhand swings?
2. How is Dodger effected by this new information?
Brandyn Aquilius of the Safehouse, aka Taichi volunteered to beat on me on Pendragon so we could try to answer these questions.
Taichi's stats:
50+5 Thrust
1+13 DW (in test 3 & 4, this is upped to 50+13 DW)
202 Dex
160 Str
933 Weaponskill
RA's: Aug Dex 2 (included above), in test 3 & 4, Duelist Reflexes 3 is added.
Using 2.4 delay 16.5 dps 99% quality arcanium weapons, enchanted to 35%.
Unbuffed
Vexxen's stats:
50+14 Thrust
21+14 DW
210 Dex
170 Qui
550 AF
1025 Weaponskill
RA's: Aug Qui 2 (included above), in test 4, Dodger 4 is added.
Using MP armor with 35% bonus.
Unbuffed
Test 1
------
For the control group test, we ran 1099 trials. Brandyn equipped a shield in his offhand and attacked me only with his mainhand.
Attacks: 1099
Hits: 516 (47.0%)
Evades: 488 (44.4%)
Misses: 93 (8.5%)
Fumbles: 2 (.2%)
This establishes the baseline amount that I evaded; 44.4%. This should be applicable if a sword and board attacker or a 2h attacker is attacking me.
Test 2
------
The next test I had Brandyn equip 2 2.4 delay weapons and attack me dual weild. Brandyn's offhand skill at this time is 1+13.
Attacks: 1803
Hits: 1188 (65.9%)
Evades: 385 (21.4%)
Misses: 224 (12.4%)
Fumbles: 6 (.3%)
As you can see, merely equipping an offhand weapon has a halving effect on my evade rate.
Test 3
------
Wondering if even more spec in the offhand would lead to a better "debuffing" of an opponents evade ability, I had Brandyn run inside Camelot and train his unused points in Dual Weild. When he was done, he had 50+13 DW and Duelist Reflexes 3.
Attacks: 3768
Hits: 2402 (63.7%)
Evades: 865 (23.0%)
Misses: 482 (12.8%)
Fumbles: 19 (.5%)
As you can see, the evade rate here is a little under 2% higher then it was with 1+13 DW. I don't know quite what to make of this so we'll just call it statistical variation for now. The end result is the same, however. My evade rate for all intents and purposes has been halved.
Test 4
------
Now comes the big question: How does this effect Dodger, a RA shared by many classes? To this effect, I myself ran into Camelot and trained Dodger to level 4.
Attacks: 3087
Hits: 1886 (61.1%)
Evades: 779 (25.2%)
Misses: 408 (13.2%)
Fumbles: 14 (.5%)
This is disturbing. A level 50, fully spellcrafted assassin with Dodger 4 is only evading at 25.2% rate even though Evade 7 itself offers a 35% evade rate?
Conclusions
-----------
1. Dual Weild/Left Axe halve evade, or drastically reduce its percentage. One can probably assume Celtic Dual acts the same, but we have not seen any logs so we will not say for certain. This begs the question: Bug, or by design?
Some classes are adversely effected by this new knowledge. Critblade spec Shadowblades, for instance will be facing an opponent who can evade 50% of their attacks.. while the critblade will only be able to evade 25% of their attackers attacks, causing them to take more damage overall. This is one of the main factors in why Critblades are considered "gimp". Scouts suffer a DW penalty on both their shield and their evade. Etc.
Mythic has stated in the past that skills like shield were effected by dual weild. But we have never to-date seen anything stated about evade. An official response on this would be appreciated. Bug, or working as intended?
2. It does not matter how much or how little you have in your offhand skill. Merely having an offhand skill is enough to effectively halve your opponent's evade rate.
3. Dodger is not acting as described. The official description of Dodger on camelotherald.com says:
"Increases chance to evade by 3% per level."
Quite obviously, 23% + 12% does not equal 25%, which is the result we obtained.
What I believe is happening is that DAOC is taking my base evade rate 44%, adding Dodger 4 which is 12% additional evade, and then capping it at 50%. It is then dividing by 2 for the DW vs Evade penalty. And leaves me with a 25% evade chance.
At this time I do not recommend ANYTHING beyond Dodger 2 on any assassin, as no buffs at all were required to reach the cap. And Dodger itself is halved, or in my case worse - chopped into a fourth!
I certainly hope Mythic will investigate and make sure Dodger works as advertised. A simple fix would be to add Dodger AFTER the halving effect has taken place, and then apply the 50% evade cap. Then I'd end up with 23% + 12%, having Dodger 4. This assumes Mythic decides the halving effect on evade is 'working as intended'. If it's not, another approach will need to be taken.
Resources
---------
"Useful Evade Info" - Pythias_Kbld (VN)
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57498506&replies=58
"Dual Weild vs Evade tests" - Vexxen (VN)
http://pub146.ezboard.com/fthesafehousefrm19.showMessage?topicID=5062.topic
Vexxen's logs:
http://dpwebhosting.com/dracosdivinus/evtestvexlogs.htm
Taichi's logs:
http://dpwebhosting.com/dracosdivinus/evtesttailogs.htm
(Note: Brandyn had his log accidentally off for part of test 3 and 4 which is why you will see more trials on 'my side' of the logs. We are including his logs for those of you that wish to parse to see what percentage of each hand is evaded, and for independant verification purposes)
Thanks
------
Special thanks to Pythias_Kbld for posting the original info.
HrUUUUUuuUUUUUge thanks to Brandyn Aquilius of the Safehouse, aka Taichi for putting up with SIX GRUELING HOURS of parsing on Pendragon 10/12/03. Also special thanks to Brandyn for handling the hosting of the log files.
I can be reached on VN by PMing Vexxen or e-mail me at respect_mah_authoritay@hotmail.com
Vexxen / Lancelot
new char.