vanish

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svartalf

Guest
Regarding realm abilities... So albion gets VANISH and midgard gets, i dunno.. stealth run or something equally pathetic.

Hmm I guess they're both pretty crap aren't they? Still think vanish is better.. what do you think?
 
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Myshra

Guest
its so good to offset the complete bollocks that is the wiz realm ability, a mega insta cast AoE which is worse than my fire one at lvl 44 and is a complete waste of 14 points.
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Having a minstrel run you around is as similar to the shadowblade realm ability as normal stealth timer is to vanish.
 
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svartalf

Guest
Originally posted by Fingoniel
Having a minstrel run you around is as similar to the shadowblade realm ability as normal stealth timer is to vanish.
Click to expand...

Exactly, which means; albion get's free realm ablility, and midgard gets a slap in the face.
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Read what I said...

Shadowblades get vanish too... only they can't use it till ten seconds after combat ends :p

That's like saying Infiltrators get Shadowrun because they can group with a minstrel.
 
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SFXman

Guest
Boohoo, everyone will have new problems after the realm abilities. So maybe now some classes in Midgard won't be über anymore? Oh no... can it really be that you people won't own as much anymore... sigh... what a useless pair or threads and each with a similar topic but the same poster.
 
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old.Xarr

Guest
There aren't equivalents for the different realms unique classes. Same goes for realm abilities. It's as easy as that...
 
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Delket

Guest
Different RAs make the classes more unique, good thing no?
 
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old.¥ØÐÄ

Guest
Originally posted by svartalf
Regarding realm abilities... So albion gets VANISH and midgard gets, i dunno.. stealth run or something equally pathetic. Now if i'm an albion infiltrator and i have any sort of brain at all, i'm gonna wait for a minstrel to take me to where i want to go, where we can both hide together using stealth.. and he can stun whoever i want to kill.

His speed gives me a (kind of) equivalent ability to the assasins of midgard. Now the point here is.. what is midgard's equivalent of Vanish?
Click to expand...

i thinks this guy is a caster who gets killed all the time by assasin hence trying to get um nerfed :p

and i agree with above poster makin skills/classes different and have unique skills is a LOT better than having all classes same and same stlyes/spells etc etc . it would be boring as feck if all were the same .
 
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Aeiedil

Guest
personally as much as vanish is kinda uber, i am happy with the nightshade's wild arcana :) although viper looks good im planning a higher WA spec instead ;) double-dot will be nice :)
 
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mele-nko

Guest
bad thing however is that some of the defining class RA are very lame.
Let's take the assasin types as example:

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Shadowblades: Shadow Run 30 min. 10 points; Your run speed while steathed is boosted for 30 seconds

"once every half hour u can walk for normal speed under stealth ----> sucks ass"

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Nightshades: Viper Active 30 min. 14 points; For 30 seconds, all of your DoT poisons will do double damage.

" A lot better already it has a lot of damage POTENTIAL, however it's still not a great skill. One of the most common RA's, purge can counteract the whole effect of the poison after like 1 second making it useless, and ofcourse u need to be a shade who uses envenom. " ( notice that's it more expensive btw)

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Infiltrators: Vanish Active 30 min. 10 points; You will immediately hide, regardless of action state or in-combat timer.

" Now here's a skill, it's a 'get out of jail for free card' or u can use it in an offensive way. Since assasins rely havily upon the first strike, the skills basically let them do 2 first strikes in a row, both doing full damage on it's enemy."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As u can see Shadowblades are getting the short end of the stick, nightshades get a decent skills.. not very good but usefull once in a while. Infiltrators are getting the most for there points invested.

I think ,this is the general feeling of most experienced US players, i spent quite some time on the various rogueboards and in the latest patches the infiltrator is always considered to be the best, followed by the shadowblade and last the nightshade. With the recent changes to the armor resisttables and a little shade lovin' the ballance may have shifted a little, but still most ppl feel that with this skill, the strongest assasin class have been made stronger.
 
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old.LandShark

Guest
So albion gets VANISH and midgard gets, i dunno.. stealth run or something equally pathetic. Now if i'm an albion infiltrator and i have any sort of brain at all, i'm gonna wait for a minstrel to take me to where i want to go, where we can both hide together using stealth.. and he can stun whoever i want to kill.
Click to expand...

What exactly does that have to do with the RA vanish?
I mean... was there a point there?

On the subject of vanish: All the assassin-specific abilities are crap. Nightshade gets to do huge DoT damage to a single target every half-hour, infiltrator gets to restealth in combat once every half-hour and shadowblade gets to run fast in stealth every half hour. I'm sorry to repeat "every half hour" so much, but I feel it's worth emphasising that these are expensive skills on a 30min reuse timer.
Infiltrator "vanish" and Shade "viper" both can more or less guarantee a kill 200dmg per tick lifebane, or 2 PA's in rapid succession) and the shadowblade one is just useful.
However.... the number of infs who will spend 14pts on vanish, compared to saving those points up for dodger/mastery of pain (i'll take 15% extra chance for my PA to crit, passive, plus all other attacks, over ANYTHING on a 30min timer) is just minimal. I know a few infs in the US who have it, but they're mostly R6 who already have taken dodger & mastery-of-pain to diminishing returns levels.

Now... explain wtf minstrels have to do with this subject?
 
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wolvon fury

Guest
If you ask me, ShadowBlades god is Lokor the trickerster...
There RB should be to plant a Power Keg on the enemy while stelthed and have 10 seconds to run for there life..

bwahahaha
 
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mele-nko

Guest
Passives rule actives :)
things i would take before Shadowrun ( it's not fast btw, u walk at normal unstealthed speed But under stealth )
passvives liek Dodger, see hidden, masstery of pain, and some other passives and then some usefull actives like purge or first aid or something like that ~~

shadowrun is waaaaaaaaay down on my list T_T
 
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Meatballs

Guest
oh wait another silly thread by a silly person, like i need a minstrel to stun someone when I already have a 6 second stun and a 9 second stun myself (well when I hit 50 anyway)

Im not even going to get vanish timer is too long imo, I dont like timers, passive is the way to go.

A minstrel cant play speed song whilst stealthed, and Im not even sure if speedsong affects our runspeed whilst stealthed.

And if you want an equivalent of everything, go play dark age of samealot, where everyone is identical
 
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ImLestat

Guest
Although Svartalf may not realize this, he is quite close to what the real problem here is. And that problem is what Mele-nko described (scroll up and see). Now Landshark says that no realm abilities on 30 mins timers are not worth having. This is of course a subject of opinion. You must agree though that even though all those three realm abilities are on 30 min timers, the inf's ability is way better than the sb's.

Another thing which hasn't been considered here. In patch 1.51 I think it is, although I'm not 100% sure, the oneshot kill and stay stealthed, for all assassin classes gets removed from the game. Considering this, which class do you think feels this nerf the least? While the sb and the ns don't get to oneshot and stay stealthed, the inf is instead able to use his realm ability to almost negate this effect (of course only once each 30 mins, but anyway). Inf's will not feel this nerf as bad as sb's or ns's.
 
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SFXman

Guest
Originally posted by svartalf
Then we get HIS superb feedback. Sigh...
Click to expand...
Yeh yeh... sure I am known for making posts such as that one but who gives a rats ass, when you look at your posts mine are almost welcome imho. I mean I haven't seen many posts that are dissing me for posting one-liners (a few some while back)... think about it.
 
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Troryn

Guest
Gratulations Svartalf

you have made it into the list of "people to avoid"

say hi to your new roommate Karam
 
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old.LandShark

Guest
Originally posted by old.ImLestat
Now Landshark says that no realm abilities on 30 mins timers are not worth having.
Click to expand...

I apologise; I didn't meant to suggest that. The Shadowblade's unique ability DOES to me seem pretty damn poor. However, since I don't think many infiltrators or nightshades will take their 14pt-30min-timered ones EITHER, I'm just saying that i doubt it will matter...
3 Abilities no-one will have, doesn't matter if one is superior... :)

And i still want to know why he dragged minstrels into this..
 
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mele-nko

Guest
Poster #2 and 3 got the minsterl involved.
They get a nice RA though, speed of sound :)
 
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old.Iunliten

Guest
Gotta agree the RA of shadowblades are useless.

But positive we are not the only class who gets an worthless special RA ;)
 
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Tigerius

Guest
Generally however the Active abilities ARE overpriced and overtimered for their actual strength. Goes almost across the board.

One purge per 30 mins or 45% reduction on all CC?
One double DoT per 30 mins or 15% chance of crit on all DoTs?
5% increased melee speed for 60secs once per 30 mins, or 6% increased melee speed always.

Aside from the most extreme examples, it's overall not thought through exactly how hampering it is to have the ability active 30 min timered compered to passive. The strength of these abilities really don't reflect it. Those abilities that give you a entirely unique uncomparable effect can still be worth it, but across the board they are poorly designed IMO.
 
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svartalf

Guest
As far as the passive/active argument goes, it's clearly an offset of putting the same amount of points in and getting the same out.. just in a different form..

I think it will depend on how you play as to which one would best suit you. If you are uber already and kill hundreds en masse like Niar, or are always in a group, then you'll be best off with the passive skills.. however if you kill carefully, only one or two every half hour, then the active skills are the way to go, and will make you far better at what you do for the short time you do it.

Of course, this model kinda flies out of the window when you consider that your enemy has realm abilities of their own, but the active skills will give the lesser player a chance against Mr Uber. I think it's going to be a case of the best getting better and the worst... well.. getting better more slowly.
 
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