Valewalkers - Opinions?

[freakyphil]

Been playing DAOC for a few months now, choose to play a valewalker as my first character... I am curious about peoples opinions about them and towards them!?

Reason I am curious is simply that I am finding it harder and harder to get into groups outside of my guild. Or if I try starting a group I find it really hard to get anyone interested in joining me... And I am left wondering why?

I am currently lvl 44 and am spending more and more time in and around Tur Suil pulling fomor, really enjoy being the main puller inside Tur Suil, had great fun in a group the other night...

RvR is really hard to get involved with too outside of my guild. Is it because I am not level 50? Or because I play a valewalker? I don't want to wait until lvl 50 to hit RvR and wander round not having a clue so figured I'd start now, managed to hit RR2L1 at the weekend, which was great!

This isn't a whine thread, I am simply curious about peoples opinions and views of valewalkers. I have found it to be quite a varied class to play - can be either a tank (with support) or a caster. Ok wearing cloth armour is a pain, but anyway... Opinions anyone?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Uppercut]

Well.. personally i avoid grouping them for RvR since they have tendency to fall off the assist train for the fact that they lack det. Ok.. 2 x gp and personal purge makes up for it, but the 2nd fact that their damage potential is usually left unused due the fact that savage trains see their cloth and smack em down on the way to healers and they fall of assist train again.


In PvE on the other hand every "tank" faces the same problem. If i made tankgroup i suppose VW could tank enough aslong as group had pbt and pbaoe´s high enough to clear out mobs fast. But no1 makes tankgroups anymore so you are basicly a leech in pbaoe groups and that leaves you in mercy of your guildies usually.

 

[Faeldawn]

Im afraid i know a few lvl 50 VW's and they all suffer from the same problems.

RvR, a VW isnt a sought-after class, low hp, cloth, no det makes them poor tanks, however they do make reasonable casters, but if groups wanted a caster they'd get a proper caster.

PvE, solo VW's are the bomb, no arguments. Their styles are extremely powerful, but they do fall down in groups as they tend to attract a lot of aggro and are a horrific mana-sink for healers. No protect, no guard, no intercept, no shield, poor hp, low absorb armour all adds up to make them poor group tanks.

In fact they would fall into the same pool as shades/rangers in consideration for a group tank.

VW is also an excellent duo/trio class for pve, in fact they are one of the best class for small xp groups i can think of (barring the obvious soon-to-be-nerfed class).

Oh, and Uppercut, the upcoming focus nerf will see a large reversion to the classic tank setup for xp groups, indeed i have had 4 tank groups this week alone on my BM so tank groups do exist still

 

[Taxii]

I know to your problem mate, and i have the same..
im currently lvl 42.5 on my VW, mostly from Solo'ing, but i don't have a problem with being solo.

I was doing one of those small xp groups you talk about fel in df together with a warden, bard and a 50 vw - uber fun, and alot of xp for me and the warden. The most we took down was 2 succubuss'es and a mahr, and that was with me and the 50 vw tanking. So i agree, VWs are very strong in PvE, but so are they in RvR, but people tend to overlook that. After what i have heard my friends on US say, VWs is an very hard class to kill, even with a savage, so the fact that savage's wtf pwn VWs is not quite true.
I have also experienced it my self on a friends RR5L2 Paladin ( defenceive ), and i got owned quite bad because of the back-pos Stun that lasts 11 secs, then the side combo, and i was a dead pally.

Where do i wanna go with this ? - Well, im only saying my Point of view, and i really think that people should give VW's a chance in RvR. They are a hybrid, but with a very usefull Class RA tho it sounds bad and stuff, but together with AM, it's the most usefull group RA i can think of ( after GP ofc )

 

[Faeldawn]

The trio group setups i have tried are:

VW/Hero/Druid (Uber, s/s hero+ druid buffs the vw does most of the work)

VW/Warden/ranger (Also incredibly good combo, ranger and VW do ranged dmg, they can kill most orange/low red before they even reach melee)

Bard/VW/Shade (this is a killing machine)

VW/Voidie/Ranger (reds dead before melee anyone? )

And my personal favourite:

VW/Menty/VW

 

[freakyphil]

When online, I usually check to see how many valewalkers are online. I don't think I have ever seen more than maybe 15 at peak times...

I wonder if we are simply a misunderstood class? In the RvR I have done (which is admittedly limited) I tend to hang back from the 'rush' of the group and try and spot the enemy healer or caster... hit them with my DOT and that usually sends one of the tanks at me, hit them with my snare to get into a better position to deal with them and then start hitting them with my drain (yes it breaks the snare but I am usually in a position to deal with them then) often I have managed to drain them enough to cause them some concern...

Coupled with the styles we can get off and the dots and dam shields we can fire off in combat I think we CAN hold our own... I know I have managed to solo higher players and beat them in a one on one. I try and warn group healers not to bother healing me if I manage to win a fight as I simply use my drain to 'fill up' assuming any of the opposition are still standing... (which is usually quite often). (unless its a zerg and then its just a mad free for all really)

The biggest issue is mez, which is why not having determination is SUCH a pain! And why I am saving up for purge! I have found though that if I am mezzed, the enemy group will sometimes leave me alone whilst they go for healers or casters. Which can be bad if I shrug it off in time to dot or drain or get in from the side and start using my side chain...

Personally I am glad I chose a valewalker as my first character in the game.

So come on fellow valewalkers, lets teach everyone how useful we really can be!

 

[saks]

have my lowbie BG VW, its uber fun, good styles decent dmg etc.

But when it comes to "real" rvr they need det very badly :/
Know Random Roleplayers had a VW in their BM grp, it worked fine, but if the VW die, and get rezzed and no1 buff it in the middle of fight they are crappy useless in melle very slow weap .

but in all i like grping them

 

[LordjOX]

delete and reroll an other class imo- if ur looking for grp RvR
altho a very nice solo class, as saks said ure useless when u die in RvR and get ressed...
anyways, me thinks VW mite be the new pl class after the focus nerf... can do jellos (without buffs) with little downtime, with sum crack and buffs the VW only needs end regen to pull with no downtime

 

[Reno]

anyways, me thinks VW mite be the new pl class after the focus nerf

The new pl class will be the animist. Much better for pling

What is also the case is that excalibur might be the wrong server for a VW to do very well in rvr. There are so many ppl rvring and very dedicated groups here that getting in is very difficult. I rvred in a guild group and what i mostly did was be part off the MA train or nuke from a bit farther away. I think ppl need to get used how to use a VW effectively in rvr.

 

[bigmammas]

Valewalker is one of the most fun classes I have to play tbh.


In pve he is very good (we only need protect ability in a future patch to be accepted more in groups, I think)

In rvr lack of determination is very annoying so get purge and get in a guildgroup imo

They arent bad in rvr just ignored wich is sad as other servers have them as new fotm

 

[lofff]

theres prolly nothing funnier than pve with main tank vale losing his selfbuffs just after pulling.

 

[bigmammas]

Lol loff y be surprised how much a valewalker evades to win the day

 

[saks]

he should be aware of timer on shields, like a caster should

 

[Culanan]

Takes a bit more attention to play a VW than some other classes but I usually find buffs dropping to not be a problem, if they start to drop just as I pull I cast af+abs buffs, with dex buffs it's damn fast and stops you experiencing unfourtunate death#32423432

In RvR if you see enemies head on peel off, often saves being mezzed and gives you a chance to insta some casters, against albs I love slapping insta dot on a sorc.

I haven't got purge atm, will do eventually but I find avoiding mezz situations to keep me in action most the time. Getting slammed sucks however, tend to die pretty fast, if I have 3 tanks on me I move backwards, with parry+evade I'm not easy to take down if I have red buffs.

I have WA and some reactive dots (reactive DD's for lvl 40-43 xping works very well in SI btw), I've had stealther adds come for me then leg it after being hit for 124 a tick

A good and understanding grp is a bonus, I pulled at fins around lvl 45, had a void eld energy debuffing my target, it was at 30% life by the time it closed for melee, so I would usually use the sidechain on another tanks target, again with good buffs the AOE does good dmg (when not resisted ofc) and I often found tanking 2 reds/purps np. I was famous for being a mezz breaker while xping but then I was doing it on purpose to wind up Sta

Good class, good potential, may not fit it if others aren't so accomadating but if you are a good player you'll find your own niche somewhere

 

[Aloca]

Trial of atlantis will boost up the Valewalkers grp abilites a bit

 

[bigmammas]

valewalkers can get bodyguard hehe now thats a good group ability

 

[Beccy]

If u go odins, there are usually 1 or 2 valewalkers and they usualy get a grp spott in on of our "random" grps. After all we are Hibs we should be better than mids and let people get rvr grps even if he dont play a fotm char

 

[Culanan]

valewalkers can get bodyguard hehe now thats a good group ability

Grapple4tehwin, root someone and lifetap them for 10 secs, with red dex buffs VW can kill someone pretty fast

 

[Elricstormbringer]

Valewalkers disadvantages are the cloth armour and one melee damage type (slash) which isnt good on Mid/Alb support. However, they have a lot of advantages as hybrids that, as playing a champ now, I can see. These include:

1. Highest weaponskill for a hybrid boosted by Mythic as their styles did not have bonus to hit
2. The growth rate on some styles is very high with four over 1 and one at 1.44 (LW styles do not go over 1 with Annhialation at 0.88). See http://daoc.nisrv.com/modules.php?name=Weapon_Style_Faq&file=hibernia
3. Con as a tertiary stat
4. Their magic damage exceeds a champs by far with the castable lifedrain which is better than a once every 15 seconds DD
5. They can become a Battlemaster and get Grapple. From what I understand, when you grapple someone you cannot go into melee with them but I think you can cast spells on them. A class such as a VW who has a free 10s or so of castable lifedrain on someone would be quite powerful, possibly overpowered.

 

[Taxii]

I agree with Elric most of the way, except at #5. Grapple is powerfull, but it will not make the VW overpowerd. And i would prefer going melee on somoene who is Grappl'ed since our side style does alot more dmg than the LT, but again.. its all about the situation. If im low on hits, and get a grappel through, then ofc i would do the LT to get my hits back to full.. but if i got 50%+ hits, i would do everything to land a sidestyle. Also, our Backpos 9 sec Stun style is alot better than grapple in most cases, since it stops the enemy and it will make it alot easier to land our sidestyle.


Info on Grapple:4 Grapple - any weapon style that drains 50 fatigue, does low damage, has bonus to hit, penalty to defense

Battlemaster 4 is grapple (100% snare on you and your target, so it would be used to stop a tank from charging past you and onto your healers) Nov 23

Grapple is an ability that works at about 100 range. It roots your target in place and you in place for about 10 seconds. During this time you cannot attack, nor can your attacker attack. I did not see any resists either which is very good. It also does not have a recaster timer. Nov 23

Stun compared to Grapple:
-stun lasts 1 second less (lol, I know )
-after the 9secs expired you are immune to stun for 1 minute (and maybe you moc within this minute)
-stun is purgeable!
-Albion only: stun immunity during SOS

-grapple can be chained
-grapple has no immunity timer
-grapple cannot be purged
-grapple isn't affected by bt, guard, and hit/miss Nov 27

 

[Culanan]

I agree with Elric most of the way, except at #5. Grapple is powerfull, but it will not make the VW overpowerd. And i would prefer going melee on somoene who is Grappl'ed since our side style does alot more dmg than the LT, but again.. its all about the situation. If im low on hits, and get a grappel through, then ofc i would do the LT to get my hits back to full.. but if i got 50%+ hits, i would do everything to land a sidestyle. Also, our Backpos 9 sec Stun style is alot better than grapple in most cases, since it stops the enemy and it will make it alot easier to land our sidestyle.


Info on Grapple:4 Grapple - any weapon style that drains 50 fatigue, does low damage, has bonus to hit, penalty to defense

Battlemaster 4 is grapple (100% snare on you and your target, so it would be used to stop a tank from charging past you and onto your healers) Nov 23

Grapple is an ability that works at about 100 range. It roots your target in place and you in place for about 10 seconds. During this time you cannot attack, nor can your attacker attack. I did not see any resists either which is very good. It also does not have a recaster timer. Nov 23

Stun compared to Grapple:
-stun lasts 1 second less (lol, I know )
-after the 9secs expired you are immune to stun for 1 minute (and maybe you moc within this minute)
-stun is purgeable!
-Albion only: stun immunity during SOS

-grapple can be chained
-grapple has no immunity timer
-grapple cannot be purged
-grapple isn't affected by bt, guard, and hit/miss Nov 27

Damaging grasp stun duration is 8 sec, the side chain is good, if the AOE proc isn't resisted and if you have top buffs can hit for 300-500+ in rvr.

I guess situations to use grapple are likely to be if you get into a fight and people try to run away, solo on an incoming target (beware stealther adds!) or on an add after you kill some solo dude and need some hit points back.


VW cloth armour, I think Talivar ran some tests with his vw using an af buff charge, think he was taking a fair bit less dmg vs a blunt spec BM. The abs buff+capped melee resists tends to mean I don't get hit for anywhere like a caster does, it's not that bad tbh

 

[Mirt]

Come off it, 1v1 grapple on a VW is obscenly overpowered. It basically lets you stop a 1v1 melee fight, life tap back up to full health, take an end pot and melee them to death.

8v8 it's also pretty potent, essentially anyone with battle master is an uber main assist.

Several ToA artifacts and drops will help boost VW af, there are +AF items, +AF cap items, the guard of valour proc (-50AF to your opponant, +50AF to you), the spear of kings chant, %buff effectivness items affect self AF. You can get well over 600AF and according to the peeps on vnboards that makes a very noticible difference. I guess the lvl10 ability of the snake charmers scythe wont hurt either ^^

ToA is mostly a good thing for VWs (and other hybrids), shame that VWs maingly get caster oriented gear though I'm kinda looking forward to it, well except for all the boring PvE (gogo consignment merchants)...

 

[Culanan]

Yes grapple has some crazy uses, just not sure you want to be rooted if you get adds. I would be careful using it, not like you get many 1v1.

Also one of the major complaints by VW's in the US is the majority of artifacts have caster based stats, cloth drops aren't that great for VW's either

I think toa will be good for VW, not sure that grapple is a win button in all cases

 

[bigmammas]

hm interesting that grapple thingie, I might just try that when TOA comes out...

Anyways I still believe VW is underrated both PVE as in PVP