Umm... how many were there ?

[old.Sko]

Just wondering how many mids came to excalibur yesterday- first time my machine showed red squares in framerate (alb dragon raid with 170 people showed only yellows).
The sneer wonder i even managed to stab someone with such lag lol

PS. to dwarf skald who made a nice run after battle - great job man Almost fell laughing when saw you running and a trail of albs with all the pointy sticks running after you

 

[old.Hellskor]

not that many Mids, but some of the Shadowblades said there were more Albs inside than Mids outside ... not counting the Albs that WERE outside with us Mids.

Was the usual "Let's change the plan"-raids. What do we need tactic for ?
Only to fool Mids into joining another Suicide-raid.

 

[Brannor McThife]

I wasn't there...but did hear it failed. Who lead it by the way?

-G

 

[~Mobius~]

Guess....

 

[Brannor McThife]

Heh. Ok Mobi, I can guess.

Now, I was away from Mid for a month or two, and when I returned, there was this Durgi. Now this is genuine interest, because I don't know Durgi, and have never spoken to him. I have heard a lot about him (recall the Legion drop issue), but just who is Durgi? How did he become leader of what is/was Midgard's biggest alliance? Is he the leader? Or does he just lead raids?

Please, I don't want sarcastic answers, I'd really like to know who he is.

-G

 

[old.Sko]

More albs arrived/logged in shortly after, at the time of intial attack there were about 16 of us there waiting on relogs.

 

[old.Ayam Ganbatte]

Just to satiate your short term curiousity till someone else can fill in the other blanks, Durgi is a kobold shadowblade, I think in the Nemesis guild now.

I'd prefer not to put my opinion of anybody down because noone understands that I actually hate everyone <twirls finger in the air>.

 

[old.Hellskor]

hehe, no reply to 'Who is Durgi?' yet ... guess you should line the part about 'no sarcastic comments' out

 

[Azal]

Was the usual "Let's change the plan"-raids. What do we need tactic for ?
Only to fool Mids into joining another Suicide-raid

That's quite amusing really, would you suggest sticking to the original plan when it wasn't working and (for example) let 1/2 of the raid force stand around for 2+ extra hours ontop of what they had already waited for and stick with the original plan?

Or maybe ignore the fact that there was enough defenders inside one keep to wipe the 2 grps attacking the keep and let them get wiped instead of pulling them back and changing the plan slightly?

Or better yet don't change the plan at all and let the groups taking keeps get wiped AND let the mids waiting for them to finish the job wait about 3 hours extra instead? assuming the 2 grps that got wiped bothered to come back at all ?

Or how about ignore the fact that due to 2 stupid actions our plan of supprise was kinda spoiled and tell everyone to wait for what..3+ hours while the albs calmed down, or maybe tell everyone to log off and come back (that doesn't work)

I may not get on with Durgi too well at the best of times, but at least he tried. That's more than I can say for someone posting the above on here showing a real lack of having a grasp what was going on.

Have you actually tried leading a relic raid? Have you any idea how much goes totally different to plan (read: wrong) that you have absolutely no control over? numbers, lateness, people not paying attention, getting lost, ld's, losing stick while afk, being spotted, people dieing, random alb/hib groups showing up getting in the way (to name but a few) etc...Didn't think so.

 

[old.Hellskor]

Every Mid Raid uses the same 'tactic' in the end. Run to the RK Doors, try to do some damage, release, run back.

Tried leading a raid ? Yes, did it. Outcome ? Durgi didn't like it, tried to seize command -> half of the Mids stayed with him, rest moved with me -> splitted forces.

As long as Ego-smurf is around, nothing will change there anyway. He will just keep on shouting everyone down who tries to improve things.

 

[glibbah]

..

really mature Hellskor, for your information most mids appreciate Durgi, for he actually WANTS to lead such attempts even after it has failed 3 or 4 times.

Ego-Smurf my ass.

 

[old.Hellskor]

do I read your sig wrong or are you an Alb ?
You really should -experience- him on raids ... no matter if big Relic Raids, or small Keep sieges/defences.
If you like him, follow him if you want.
Most mids appreciate Durgi ? Where do you have that from ?

 

[Laroma]

Re: ..

.. for he actually WANTS to lead such attempts even after it has failed 3 or 4 times.

Wanting to do something doesn't nessecarily make you good at it.

I do however respect the players making an effort for the realm, which includes Durgi. If you like the personalities of those players as well is a personal opinion.

 

[SilverHood]

there was a good plan.... could have worked, except we didn't have nearly enough people, and some people thought they were there for RP, and not relics... which got them killed, thus giving the albs prior notice to us coming....

and we had about 4 FG's on keeptaking duty.... about 2 FG's after the 3rd keep, since people went LD, got lost or whatnot

 

[Silent Shadow]

It was a good try imo.
And Hellskor think about the guys that spent hours bashing doors and then we fail. We need more people for our raids and that's it.. Albs comes in like 100+, never had a relicraid like that with Midgard since no one seems to lead them, people just run around. Big thanks to Durgi for trying to arrange things and same for Blejsarus (even though he's not doing it now). Keep it up, someday we'll learn

/salute to the mids that tried

 

[Ottar]

> some people thought they were there for RP, and not relics...

So, it was another case of some ”scout” sniping at albs while supposedly keepig eye on Excalibur? Figures.

> Every Mid Raid uses the same 'tactic' in the end. Run to the RK Doors,
> try to do some damage, release, run back.

Well, every mid raid ends up that way, yes. This particular one was refreshingly different in that it didn’t start so from the beginning. There was actually evidence of planning and to a point the plan went rather well even. That point was before we managed to get to the keep tho

A relic raid is difficult to pull off as there are many problems that must be somehow solved.

1. Getting sufficient number of people together and to the relic keep.
2. Dealing with guards.
3. Dealing with defenders.
4. Getting the relic back home.

Now, the plan as much as I saw it, specifically dealt with first 2 of the problems. People were there (sufficient numbers? we’ll never know). Then the keeptaking action addressed the guardpop problem.

Now, a plan worth it’s salt should also provide contingencies for at least the most obvious things. Such as, oh surprise: defenders showing up! Actually, as a large number defenders can nail any relic raid no matter how well planned, the plan should be designed around the ”defender problem”.

And Azal..

> Have you actually tried leading a relic raid?

The fact that I nor many others have never been the President of United States, not even congressmen, does not neccessarily disqualify us from criticising US foreign policy. Actually being on a couple a dozen of them raids just might give us poor grunts at least some insight on what seems to go wrong on almost every single one of them. Showing up and doing our part, multiplied by failed raids numbering in double digits actually does earn us some moral right to be vocally discontent. Leaders invest significantly more time, effort ant their nervecells into them, granted. But we do or try to do our part. More people would show up and less people would whine if the leadership had just a tiny bit better track record of making those raids successful. And yes, I know Im not asking for a trivial thing here.

Ottar

 

[old.Eynar_Vega]

Although I most of the time don't share the same opinion as Durgi on raid plans, I have to admit that he at least takes some initiative. Everyone who critisizes him so much should try to arrange and lead a raid with similar amounts of participants before judging others (not that I would give it a go tho). Once more the expression "It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it" proves its right.

I also have to admit that Durgi does have a tendency to seize command of raids planned by other people from time to time, but I'm sure this could be avoided by pointing out all raid "commanders" in advance, and by emphasizing that orders are only to be accepted from these people to the troops.

 

[Glyph_mid]

I admire Durgi some, he might not be the best groupmember or leader, but he is the one planning and getting people together for the raids.
Its not Durgis fault that there is more defenders than attackers, its quite hard these days to do relic raids as theres always (in the evening anyways), running 5-6 groups of albs around in emain and maybe a couple in lyonesse and darkness falls. Its not really that hard to type /release and go back and defend relic with prearranged groups.

Us Mids might get to see how easy it is to defend a relic at primetime, where people are online and pregrouped. Then we might not see our own failures and big failures, but as progress.
Since several patches back, we havent been raided in primetime, but it might come and we'll show them for sure.

Its not making it easier that 40% of the raiders are SB alts, they might be good to clear battlements, but there really are a lack of tanks. Same when running around in emain, 50% are SBs, and many of them stay out of big battle to avoid dying and maybe stick in some lone avonlonian. People killing the morale as well arent helping, we had Svartalf (nice guy) running around yesterday in emain "lets go raid alb, we dont stand a chance vs. albs in emain", and for once we actually had the upperhand in emain, it took some yelling but we succeeded.
We mids are to afraid of the albs, which we havent got any reason for, we fight equal atleast, and with the right morale we will win. What makes us win is that 10-20% of the albs ALWAYS turn and run, making their buddies low in numbers and thereby slaughtered.

Stand together midgard, it will lead to to victory..some day

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I was in a relic raid a few nights ago. The Fedaykin alliance was charged with keep taking and we set to this. I wasn't leading and was quite happy to observe.
I have to admit I'd rather have been helping some guild peeps with their epic quests, but I felt it was important to show support for peeps that are willing to try and do stuff for the realm.

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff Durgi says and sometimes he might have a knack for saying things that get peeps' hackles up but when it comes down to it, if someone is going to the trouble of organising something for the realm, then he will continue to get support.

That also applies to anyone who is taking the trouble to put in the time and effort to get it together for the realm.

I hope this is a 2-way thing.

Tactics need a little work though

One important point though: on the subject of item raids on mobs such as Legion etc, I absolutely will not advocate members of the guilds allied with Fedaykin to join those hunts when I know they will not be included to get a chance of drops. We've done a few item hunts (WoWs, DF stuff, etc) and we've always been scrupulously fair with the items, sometimes even biasing against our own guild because it ultimately makes us stronger as a whole.

As a result of these and other things, we have an ever strengthening alliance because bickering is kept to a minimum, all guilds get a say and ultimately it will be good for the realm.

Getting a strong realm isn't just about organising every now and again, its about actually doing things that promote working together.

 

[Ottar]

> Its not Durgis fault that there is more defenders than attackers

A brilliant excample of a sentence, that while being obviously correct is at the same time wrong

A significant number of defenders is one of the likeliest causes of failiure. Therefore, the plan must include ways to avoid and / or counter defenders.

Now, to be honest, I believe it was actually done to an extent. I suspect the siege of Hurbury was at least partly intended as a diversion to draw more albs into Snowdonia. Also, moving into Sauvage in smaller groups, piecemeal could have been to make the force less identifiable as a relic force. If such was the plan, I’d actually like to congratulate Durgi on at least trying to make a workable plan. It wasnt good enough but it was a nice try. In that sense, the raid was not a complete waste as most of the earlier attempts have been, in a sense that we can at least learn from it.

Part of the problem we have here is that Prydwen is relatively low population server. The strength of relic keeps is adjusted according to US servers with larger populations to draw from. That means defending agains relic raids is actually easier on Prydwen, as the threat presented by purple guards on relic keep is proportionally higher.

The most obvious way to avoid defenders is a non-primetime raid. Someone comes up with a good robust way of doing it some other way, I’ll be delighted.

Ottar

 

[VidX]

Originally posted by Ottar
> Its not Durgis fault that there is more defenders than attackers

A brilliant excample of a sentence, that while being obviously correct is at the same time wrong

A significant number of defenders is one of the likeliest causes of failiure. Therefore, the plan must include ways to avoid and / or counter defenders.

Now, to be honest, I believe it was actually done to an extent. I suspect the siege of Hurbury was at least partly intended as a diversion to draw more albs into Snowdonia. Also, moving into Sauvage in smaller groups, piecemeal could have been to make the force less identifiable as a relic force. If such was the plan, I’d actually like to congratulate Durgi on at least trying to make a workable plan. It wasnt good enough but it was a nice try. In that sense, the raid was not a complete waste as most of the earlier attempts have been, in a sense that we can at least learn from it.

Part of the problem we have here is that Prydwen is relatively low population server. The strength of relic keeps is adjusted according to US servers with larger populations to draw from. That means defending agains relic raids is actually easier on Prydwen, as the threat presented by purple guards on relic keep is proportionally higher.

The most obvious way to avoid defenders is a non-primetime raid. Someone comes up with a good robust way of doing it some other way, I’ll be delighted.

Ottar

Agree 100% with you there when saying about the relic raids being designed for the bigger servers.

For a Hib relic raid of 60 people, approximately 1/5 of the primetime Hib population, it is hard enough taking an undefended relic keep. Add in even a few defenders and things become iffy. Having the defenders being of equal numbers to us and we may as well go home. The Master casters can handle about 30 players on their own. Add the normal P+++ guards, and also the named ones, and you are talking a force of 60 people before you even think of allowing for defenders.

Yes, taking all the keeps beforehand is a GOOD idea, but warns the defending realm, allowing for more time to get to defence. Zerging the relic keep without taking any keeps requires, as I have said, a really good organised force of about 60 reasonably high level players.

Nice try there Middies. Seen the keeps drop and guessed it was a raid. Unlucky.

 

[AbPoon]

Mids afraid of Albs on Pwyd?

Man how different things are on this server

 

[Azal]

The only person saying mids are afraid of albs is you, not us

 

[Freia]

Um, i wanna say a few things..

Raids are slow and boring. Everyone does what's fun so if its slow and boring then less ppl will show up on the next raid. Thus, next time we get lots of shouting over /as for more ppl, thus more waiting (for them all to arrive). Also we get less time to organize rams and other preparations (because leaders are busy just trying to get ppl together) thus even more waiting. Thus raids become slow and boring and round it goes.
Thats the problem with not enuf ppl showing up i think.

Now this is just a game and everyone does what they think is fun. And they should!
If it was real and not a game we would make sure every participant pracised the different parts of raiding before we let them out in the field. Everything down to and including scouting/reporting, following commands, routine for running in a train, get moving quickly, bevaviour in chatgroups, getting to a specific loc and sorting rams. We would also have a nice command structure with ONE field commander that gives orders in a chatgroup to groupleaders which in turn smothly and quickly made their groups do whats required. Also everyone would have a ram in vault so they could just grab it when its time to move out.
... oh and let not forget we would get the carrier a direct fiberlink to the servers and give him an ubercomputer so he dont go ld on the pad or such

Ok i'll quit dreaming now. hehe

Anyways.. mebbe thats some food for thoughs, and if I would get to rule and everyone would obey me I would.... um, not be typing up an entire manual for relicraiding on barrysworld, im tired of typing already But feel free to /cg invite me and discuss it in game or on irc://irc.quakenet.org.

Hmmm, as if ppl would actually obey a blue lil healergirl anyways.

/salute to patient people who take the time to get raids going and put up with impatient people moaning for hours and hours

 

[Rumble]

/salute Mids

Normally I wont return to the Albion frontier until we are down to 2 keeps. Having 4 keeps in Alb hands and hearing Mids on Excal came as a bit of a surprise. Even more surprising was seeing some organisation from the Mids with some catapults setup at Excal, keep doors bashed open (Berks) and a low level con zerg at Bold.

To have the balls to try an Excal raid without taking more keeps deserves a bit of respect. Even bashing the doors is costing us money so congrats on the attempt and dont lose heart, nothing stirs Albion into action more than hearing the magic words "Mids on Excal".