Too many changes kill the game

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eleh

Guest
This is an opened letter to Mythic, really, I guess, so arguably there will be limited efficiency on these forums, but here goes anyway.

Too many changes (improvements/balances/etc) kill the game.

It takes an enormous amount of time, energy and careful planning to take a character to 50.

As a result, we develop an emotional attachment into our characters. We decide how and why we like them and how we want to play them. For example, as a darkness specced Spiritmaster rather than a suppression specced spiritmaster (or the other way around of course), because it suits better our playstyle, our understanding of the game...

We read the forums, we get to understand how our particular character works.. by the stage he is about level 20-25, I guess, we know how we want to play him.

Then starts the painful and frustrating grind to level 50, sticking to plan, so eventually we get to RvR with a character as we want him to be

We invest into a crafted armour, which we then have imbued according to how we want him to fight

We accumulate realm points, and we think long and hard on what to spend them on, that will be most efficient to helping our playstyle.

In the background of all this, Mythic looks and tweaks.

Minor changes are justified to try and bring balance to the game. I agree.

Sweeping changes into a class or a spec-line, basically change the whole balance - maybe not of the whole game - but of how the game can be played when you are a character that is being hit by those changes.

Some people are happy with adapting, of course. But the most blatant example is the latest change. 1.62 is a huge change throughout all 3 realms. I have only ever played in Midgard and I'll focus on that. A Shadowblade can only decently become a critblade now, to have any chance of doing whatever.

I do not want to enter the debate wether those changes to left axe are justified or not.

I can only say that I invested a lot of time into developing my character as a dual-wielder because I like it that way. Not for uberness reasons, for play style reasons.

I also invested a lot of money into weapons, armour and spellcrafting.

I invested into Realm Abilities.

All that is effectively wasted now, but it is also besides the point.

I can't believe I am the only one feeling I am being steamrolled into playing a character in a way I am not comfortable with. Again, nothing to do with 'nerf' or 'statistics'. I don't care much about that.

By making such strong changes into my character, Mythic effectively destroys the emotional attachment I had with it. He now reacts differently, plays differently, feels different.

He's not the character I grew and groomed.

On top of this, the multiplication of 'smaller' changes effectively affect the whole game over time. The increase of resists, particularly since the advent of spellcrafting, render many, many things next to useless in RvR: mezzes, combat styles...

My point, ultimately, is that there is such a thing as aiming for perfection. But basically, by trying to make the game better and better, there is a danger of effecitvely making it worse and I think Dark Age of Camelot is in 'clear and present danger' of reaching that point.

Mythic, please, please, I beg of you. You will never please everyone, as hard as you try. Just accept it and stop amending the game constantly. Give us new textures, new quests, new content but please leave the game mechanics as they are.

As imperfec as they are now, we can learn and leave with it. If one class has to be left gimped (such as mine now, I feel) then so be it. It would be a shame to see a class die out of the game because people stop playing it, but maybe it is inevitable and it still leaves plenty of choice.

I would prefer to abandon my shadowblade now and start an other character, if I knew I can rely on this character's abilities to stay the same over time. I have lost that confidence, and so have lost the motivation to invest the time in doing so.

With the game reaching maturity, many people's interest is starting to dwindle, understandably. This is not a bad thing. But constant changes in mechanics, far from helping, will only contribute to a dithering of interest.

At least I got it off my chest, for what it is worth. Thanks for listening.
 
O

old.TeaSpoon

Guest
Ok, you enjoyed playing a ShadowZerker because you enjoyed the play style, and you say that has nothing to do with the damage you were able to do.

Now the damage has be dropped and you don't like the change, yet the duel weild aspect is still there, you simply do different damage. Duel wield is still there, it just doesn't hit as hard.

So surely the "uberness" of the LA damage was a factor in the play style?

Basicly, the only thing that has changed is the damage and you claim that has no reason to why you like the spec you have.
 
V

Vell

Guest
By the same token, not enough changes will kill the game, perhaps even quicker than too many.

If the abilities of the characters I played stayed the same, forever, it would get pretty boring pretty quickly. It's the constant changing, finding new challenges, new options of how to play, that is what keeps the game interesting.

Stop the changes, and you stop the evolution of the game. Stop the evolution, and the game dies out. (Did you ever study evolution in Biology classes?).

If you feel your character is no longer up to scratch, respec. All classes are given a free 1-line respec in patch 1.62, so you have plenty of time to plan out a new spec.

It is the challenge of adapting and evolving around the ever changing game that keeps the game alive, not what kills it.
 
B

Balbor

Guest
Changes need to be made for 2 main reasons, to balence thing out and keep the game interesting. The main problem that need to be fixed is the spec lines, every spec line needs to be worth taking to L50 for every class. There are too many classes that have 'only way to spec' because 1-2 of there lines are useless, like Necromancers and Bonedancers.

I think left axe was changed to bring it more in line with the othe realm DW classes, although maybe it out of been better to bring the others up to LAs.
 
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old.Cher

Guest
Even if they changed the game and nerfed my char into oblivion i would still be found playing ns.

its the char i chose, and its the way i play.

changing chars because u simply can't spam one button and win fights anymore is not a reason to quit a class, its a chance to start playing it properly. try to use an assasins skills like p.a rather then just hitting one button constanly
 
A

Aravis

Guest
Originally posted by Balbor
I think left axe was changed to bring it more in line with the othe realm DW classes, although maybe it out of been better to bring the others up to LAs.

Don't think Hibs/Mids need any more reason to moan about "overpowered" infiltrators without bumping DW ;)
 
C

Cap'n Sissyfoo

Guest
I have to agree with the thread starter about all the time and money that they have wasted on buying armour and weapons which are now completely useless.

Changes need to be made and all I can suggest is that you roll with the punches.
 
E

Ekydus

Guest
Need I remind you DAoC is a RPG, meaning things are meant to take time...
 
M

^MisterJingo^

Guest
Originally posted by Ekydus
Need I remind you DAoC is a RPG, meaning things are meant to take time...

I wouldn't class DAoC as an RPG. It's purely a MMOG, and perhaps for people to say I'm shite talking, I'd put it into the same category as PlanetSide (minus the PvE.) Now UO I would class as an RPG.
 
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Ekydus

Guest
No. UO would be classed as a hot steamy pile of dog crap.
 
O

oldtimer

Guest
>...to balence thing out and keep the game interesting.

Well the balance Mythic is aiming for will never materialize. There will always be whiners that want new changes. Finding the balance in this game is Mythic's quest for the holy grail.

Keeping the game interesting can be done by adding content into the pve and rvr areas rather the major changes to classes that should have reached a stable state long ago.

Doac is really 2 games in one. First you have the regular fantasy hack and slash game similar to EQ etc. but with less variance in mobs/dungeons/quests and then you have the pvp deathmatching when you reach battleground levels and level 50 end game. Unfortunately, neither requires any rpg thinking.
 
N

Nichneven

Guest
I wonder when Mythic will finally realize that they can never make everyone happy.

Oh, maybe when their stock falls to 0 and they file for Chapter 11.


:p
 
D

Duzzy

Guest
lol, really waste of time in that post to just say that: Nooo, dont nerf my SB !!!
 
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iguk

Guest
Originally posted by Duzzy
lol, really waste of time in that post to just say that: Nooo, dont nerf my SB !!!
heheh will still take my sb to 50:)
 
I

illu

Guest
I can kind of sympathise for the poster - as I also have an sb and he will be "nerfed" too, but I will continue to play him after 1.62 as I just love the assassin role :)

I think all he is saying is that you get to a stage where the game is played a certain way, by all the classes, and yes some are slightly more over-powered than others, but people are used to playing in the present situation. But what happens is - in the quest to make all equal - all the classes are nerfed in turn, and it just causes resentment.

1.62 is cruel to sb's and zerkers, even though I'm sure it was only meant to be a zerker nerf. I think Hunters were nerfed on an earlier patch, people don't play thanes much now (another nerf?), I find playing my PAC healer less and less enjoyable with all the mezz resists, group purges etc, so in effect he's being nerfed.

And I imagine Bonedancers will be nerfed next, as I've heard people moaning, and Savages will probably be done after that as they also are too uber "apparently".

I think the game is almost balanced now - the thing that would make it more interesting for me now would be to have a /level 50 command once you have a level 50 on your account so that you only have to level someone up once before "unlocking" any other class / character. /level 20/30 helps but you still have 20 levels of crap to go to 50, which if you are working - sucks.

At the moment - I'm finding more interesting things to do than kill the same mob hundreds and thousands of times to level up an alt. The game needs something done to it to keep it interesting beyond level 50 and a few months of RvR.

Also the "tweak" of only 3 rams per door etc has effectively nerfed most keep takes too.

Anyway - back to work :/

Oli - ILLU
 
H

Hargh

Guest
He's not whining about low damage he's saying that if he spends all his time and effort and LOVE on another cahracter then who's to say they won't change that so something he doesn't recognise.

Comments about 1 button bashing and that aren't helpful - what if your class got changed so that all you COULD do was 1 button bash?
 
T

Tigerius

Guest
Well if you discard the class in particular and focus on the point, it is to an extent true. It is tiresome seeing hard work in form of RA's, specs and most of all items be reduced to nothing by the next patch in line. Change is inevitable and as a whole for the better but I think the deliberate Mythic way of taking away past hours spent and forcing us to spend them all again (such as SC) reeks. If I played 5p for what was once an uber item I don't think it's reasonable that the "Mythic market" continually devalvates that value, sometimes with a harsh 100% reduction inside a single patch.

Take a game like Diablo 2 with had fairly major item changes (such as commoness, effectiveness and so forth) between patches, while many items decreased in value over patch changes, many also increased in value by not dropping anymore, dropping more rarely or getting changed stats. That way a longtime player who put his hours in for a gain would be able to also profit from past gains, not just continually see them all made worthless.

Don't mistake my intention to make this all about items Diablo2 style, rather it's about a respect for time & effort spent on getting to where you are. Right now everything in this game devalvates, everything and I do mean everything becomes easier to gain, to achieve, and thus reduced in value. Hell even autotraining which some people used to struggle with, is being made pointless by the forced respecs.
 
D

darbey

Guest
For me 2 things killed alot of the RvR , guess many will disagree but just my point of view

spellcrafting
realm abilities
 
C

civy

Guest
Originally posted by darbey
For me 2 things killed alot of the RvR , guess many will disagree but just my point of view

spellcrafting
realm abilities

Hard to disagree with the truth. (Sure that wont stop some trying. :wink2: )
 

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