Toms mp3s sites going down

Tom

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What a shit article, with blatent lies from the BPI spokesman.

He can shove his opinions up his fetid stretched arsehole.
 

Trem

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Tom has a better place now ;)
 

Rubber Bullets

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Out of interest Tom, which part of his statement do you think is untrue?

RB
 

DaGaffer

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BPI Bloke said:
...But the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) said the ROMS licence was not legitimate and it would not cover consumers in other countries even if it was.

It all hangs on that bit. If the AllofMP3 licence is a legitimate copyright licence in Russia, then we have the right to buy things from there, and the second part, about 'not covering consumers in other countries' is wrong. Just because the music industry divides up its rights by country doesn't mean they 'own' the consumers of that country, and its perfectly legal to buy tracks from there (you are supposed to pay local VAT though).

Of course, if the licence the Russians say they have isn't legitimate in Russia then they're just another bunch of pirates, and the BPI guy would be correct.
 

yaruar

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Rubber Bullets said:
Out of interest Tom, which part of his statement do you think is untrue?

RB

Well, the bit about it being illegal in russia is patently untrue with russian copyright law the way it is at the moment. They have tried before to challenge it, but they do pay the licensing to the correct authorities in russia. The only issue is that most western artists aren't represented. AFAIR the RIAA are trying to lobby the russian politicos to change the law, but as far as things stand the service is a legal one in russia and there isn't much they can do about it.

As to whether it is legal here i'm not sure. I always though the law here was similar to other countries in as much as it's perfectly legal to download, but not to distribute. Although i am not a music industry lawyer and i no longer have access to one so i can't check!
 

Rubber Bullets

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Thanks for the answers, it's not as cut and dried as I thought.

I have no problem with using allofmp3, but had thought that it was naive to assume that to do so was legal. It is clear that the artists get nothing from the sale, though I get the impression that the recording industry isn't too concerned over giving the artists that much either.

If I buy pirated DVDs or CDs whilst on holiday in a country that has no copyright laws is it illegal to bring it home? Is it illegal to own it?

Again I'm only asking because I don't know, not to have a go at anyone.

RB
 

DaGaffer

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yaruar said:
As to whether it is legal here i'm not sure. I always though the law here was similar to other countries in as much as it's perfectly legal to download, but not to distribute. Although i am not a music industry lawyer and i no longer have access to one so i can't check!

That's correct. If you distribute, you would have to pay the local rights holders in the country you're distributing from. But there's absolutely no law against buying a digitally delivered product from another country, and the BPI is describing the law as they'd like it not the law that they've got, which is why AllofMP3 pisses them off so much. As I said, the only issue is that all electronically delivered items are subject to VAT in the country of receipt inside the EU, so allofmp3 are supposed to stick 17.5% on top for UK buyers. (I'm not entirely sure how HM Customs & Excise enforce this, I assume they just target the companies they can, who actually have offices inside the EU, even if the products are delivered from outside).
 

DaGaffer

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Rubber Bullets said:
Thanks for the answers, it's not as cut and dried as I thought.

I have no problem with using allofmp3, but had thought that it was naive to assume that to do so was legal. It is clear that the artists get nothing from the sale, though I get the impression that the recording industry isn't too concerned over giving the artists that much either.

If I buy pirated DVDs or CDs whilst on holiday in a country that has no copyright laws is it illegal to bring it home? Is it illegal to own it?

Again I'm only asking because I don't know, not to have a go at anyone.

RB

That's a different issue. The rules on physical product are different. Yes, technically bringing a pirated CD or DVD into the country is illegal, but unless you try and resell them, it would be pretty rare that you'd get prosecuted. Customs will confiscate them though.
 

Will

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DaGaffer said:
That's a different issue. The rules on physical product are different. Yes, technically bringing a pirated CD or DVD into the country is illegal, but unless you try and resell them, it would be pretty rare that you'd get prosecuted. Customs will confiscate them though.
They even have sniffer dogs for it.
 

Rubber Bullets

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DaGaffer said:
That's correct. If you distribute, you would have to pay the local rights holders in the country you're distributing from. But there's absolutely no law against buying a digitally delivered product from another country, and the BPI is describing the law as they'd like it not the law that they've got, which is why AllofMP3 pisses them off so much. As I said, the only issue is that all electronically delivered items are subject to VAT in the country of receipt inside the EU, so allofmp3 are supposed to stick 17.5% on top for UK buyers. (I'm not entirely sure how HM Customs & Excise enforce this, I assume they just target the companies they can, who actually have offices inside the EU, even if the products are delivered from outside).

A couple of downloaded pieces of software I have bought recently from teh ststes have had VAT added. It did make me wonder how that money would be collected, does the company just send over a cheque to our Customs and Excise?

I can imagine a C&E officer flying out to Moscow and asking very nicely for the VAT on thousands of mp3 files.

As for the other point I realise that the law would be different, but the offence is similar, i.e. the purchase isn't illegal, but the use of the media in this country is.

RB
 

Chilly

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Rubber Bullets said:
A couple of downloaded pieces of software I have bought recently from teh ststes have had VAT added. It did make me wonder how that money would be collected, does the company just send over a cheque to our Customs and Excise?

I can imagine a C&E officer flying out to Moscow and asking very nicely for the VAT on thousands of mp3 files.

As for the other point I realise that the law would be different, but the offence is similar, i.e. the purchase isn't illegal, but the use of the media in this country is.

RB
Thats pretty much it, if they are a legit company and do everything by the books then they would send hmce the money every year.
 

Tom

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They're not EU based, not VAT registered, and not required to collect VAT for C&E.

When you import something, either the shipping agent pays the VAT and charges it to you, or you pay on entry at the port (hence 'nothing to declare') The retailer, if based outside the EU, does not charge VAT.

The site has no legal obligation to pay any VAT. C&E might argue that the ISP must then pay the VAT, but I really can't see them investigating individuals to collect a few quid in VAT each - its simply not worth their time.
 

DaGaffer

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Tom said:
They're not EU based, not VAT registered, and not required to collect VAT for C&E.

When you import something, either the shipping agent pays the VAT and charges it to you, or you pay on entry at the port (hence 'nothing to declare') The retailer, if based outside the EU, does not charge VAT.

The site has no legal obligation to pay any VAT. C&E might argue that the ISP must then pay the VAT, but I really can't see them investigating individuals to collect a few quid in VAT each - its simply not worth their time.

Wrong! The rules for electronically delivered goods were changed a few years ago (July 2003 to be exact). Anyone delivering 'digital' goods (e.g. downloads) into the EU is supposed to pay VAT at the destination. As I said in an earlier post, customs tend to rely on the fact that most reputable companies will probably have a trading office somewhere in the EU to give them leverage; obviously in this case that doesn't apply.
 

Tom

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Well thats fair enough then, but I can't imagine the EU ever being able to enforce it. They have enough difficulty in this country with fake VAT registrations.....
 

ECA

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allofmp3.com speaks out.


The US government officials and politicians have been demanding lately that the Russian authorities shut down AllofMP3.com, alleging the site is pirate. Otherwise, they threaten Russia with sanctions, including blocking its entry to WTO.

In this regard we would like to make a statement:

1. The site AllOfMP3.com belongs to a Russian company and for 6 years it has operated within the country, in full compliance with all Russian laws. Throughout this period the various government offices have scrutinized site's legality and have not found any breach of the law. So far there has been no decision by any Russian court contesting the site's legality.

2. The Russian site AllOfMP3.com is not operating or advertising its business on the territory of other countries.

3. The site AllOfMP3.com does regularly transfer substantial amounts of royalties to the Russian organizations for collective management of rights such as ROMS and FAIR, which have granted the site licenses to legally deliver music through the Internet.

4. The site AllofMP3.com reserves the right to take all steps necessary to protect its business reputation. We call upon everyone to take a thorough and unbiased view of the site's legality.

5. On September 1, 2006 the changes to the Russian copyright legislation will come into force. Since January 2006 the site has been making direct agreements with rightholders and authors at the same time increasing the price of the music compositions and transferring the royalties directly to the artists and record companies. The aim of AllofMP3.com is to agree with all rightholders on the prices and royalties amounts by September 1, 2006.

6. We believe in the long term and civilized business based on respecting the law, considering the customers' demands as well as the interests of both national and international rightholders.
 

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