To whom it may concern ^^

boppas

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
322
Well, that got your attention :)

If you think DAoC is excellent & you have no bothers with it & think mythic are doing a great job, then dont bother reading no more & enjoy DAoC :)

If your still reading then some of what im about to say you will probably agree with & some you may not :p Im making this post because im annoyed/frustrated & tbh pissed off as to what DAoC has become to what it used to be & i decided to make a post to share with others that probably feel the same way :)

Be warned, its a long read..i was bored & thought it be a good time make a post about whati think of the current situation with DAoC!

Why do Mythic insist on making useless changes instead of fixing what needs to be fixed!?

To name a few: (im a hib btw)

Animists - Been able to cast shrooms out of LoS for a long time before anything has been done

RA's - Dont always activate when you try to use them, even when spamming the macro for them, can take a few secs before they actually work. as a caster ive ALWAYS had problems wit MoC & Purge.. Before the new changes in RA's..i had this problem & now wit the changes, i have moc3 & Purge 2..both insta & still the same problem, I dont know if other RA's from other classes have problems, but it wouldnt surprise me.

Pet Pathing - Pets wonder off & do there own thing which is annoying, more noticable in dungeons & especially with BD pets

Casting - Lately ive noticed when casting on both my mana ment & my chanter, my char will begin to cast 2-3 times then actually cast the spell. Some might say this is lag, but this has only started since NF

As i said, these are just a few things that have been left un-fixed even though i know other ppl (especially wit RA's & Pets) have the same problem & im sure Mythic are aware of them. These are not minor problems, they are or have been BIG problems. RA's we all rely on in RvR.. But when theres problems with them, such as what ive mentioned above (MoC/Purge) is probably 2 of the main RA's for a caster to have & when they fail to work after you try to use them, it's not good.

Pet pathing has been another big problem for a few classes from all realms, again these have never been fixed & in PvE... classes such as BD's rely on there pets..as do enchanters. Dungeons are probably one of the best places to level up if your solo or in a mini grp. Getting killed time & time again or having to run out because your pets pathing caused them to pull a zerg is not good.

Casting is damn annoying at times, we spend all our time sorting our chars with ToA/SC etc to have a fair chance in RvR...as a caster its essential to have high dex as we all know for the cast speed only for this to become useless when your char decides to stand there bobbing up & down until he finally decides to cast the spell. The target ive had selected has always been in los when this happens so its not because the target was moving in & out of los & its not because ive been interupted as it would say so in my log. This ONLY happens in RvR, ive not yet experianced it in PvE

So...mythic ignore things like this in favour of adding a few "tweaks" such as:

Keep porting - Im still not 100% sure what these changes involve, but to what ive heard, we can no longer just port to any keep as long we own all 4 towers thats owned to it....They made keep portal possible in the 1st place so ppl didnt have to spend ages having to run across the frontiers just to get to a keep. Im guessing they have now made these changes due to the fact that theres alot of tower camping going on. If this is the case, do they honestly think that this change will stop ppl camping towers? Nope.. Imo this is what its gunna be like (i will use Crim as an exmaple which atm for this little example has all towers owned by hib):

Enemy attack T1, Hibs try to port to DC as crim can no longer be ported to, wait! DC has lost a tower already, we will have to port & run from nged! ..Alot of hibs decide to leave it as they cba to run across the frontier to try & save 1 tower being attacked by a few enemy (sad but true)

T1 is lost, enemy camp T1 for a while waiting for inc... a few hibs go there after pissing about running haly way across emain only to be ganked as soon they get there, those few hibs /rel & dont go back.

Enemy in T1 get bored as hardly any enemy are inc, so they deicde to treb main keep, Hibs wake up.. & goto defend the keep, 3 hours later...enemy are still camping inside tower & its become a 3-4 hour stand off between hibs & enemy...now, someone please tell me if the reason for this portal change was to push forward open filed combat..how the f00k does this do it ?

As we know alot of ppl left DAoC for WoW...people blamed WoW for DAoC losing players etc.. The point is.. if mythic didnt make so many mistakes or dont bother fixing things that NEED to be fixed & instead add useless changes that do nothing more than make people even more frustrated, then those that did leave daoc wouldn't have had a reason to leave, *most* people only leave an mmorpg for another because they are not happy with the current one they are playing for whatever reason.

When things need fixing or changes that abvioulsy needed to be done asap (such as class un-balance issues) we always have to wait till "next patch" again, this is something else thats a big letdown. We have to wait around 2 months before anyhitng is done. Most other mmorpg's would do a quick-fix & sort it asap. If it was something like an NPC that gives you the wrong directions for a quest, fair enough...next patch it is...but when it come to classese un-balance it shoule be sorted fast as this makes PvP totally un-balanced as in the past Guild Groups or Fixed Grp's use this to there advantage... Theres been almost every class in-game involved with un-balancing that has made RvR @ 1 point totally un-balanced.. such as Reavers/Savages/chanters to name a few...this is not a QQ at the people who have played these classes when they were FOTM, its simply to point out that these were fixes that needed to be done with that particular class asap, but instead..we had to wait months until the next patch during which time Gank grps were running about pretty much un-stoppable due to calss un-balancing.

Imo the biggest let down & useless change for DAoC in terms of keeping its customers happy was the release of ToA. As soon this was released, Mythic had just lost or was about to in the near furutre lose alot of its subs. Alot o people carried on playing because at the time the PvP in daoc was (& prob still is) the best mmorpg for PvP. But still, alot of hardocre PvP players from DAoC left for WoW, even though WoW PvP (atm) is poor. Soon theres alot more mmoprg's arund the corner which look promising when it comes to PvP, but then alot of mmorpg's that promise good PvP have come & gone, but we wont know until its released, the point is it wont be long until one of these thats in Beta will get the PvP right, & this is when imo DAoC WILL be hit hard, WoW was just the beginning. If WoW PvP was as good (or better) than DAoC, im sure many more would have left DAoC.

Catacombs, ive not bought it & i dont intend to in a hurry. Im not in a hurry to spend yet more months of getting yet another char ToA'd up for RvR. Im not a PvE fan, if i was, DAoC would be my last choice ;) So catacombs for me is yet another poinltess add-on for the average user, when will myhtic wake up & realise that the only thing thats keeping DAoC above water atm is the PvP!? ...so what do they do...release a PvE expansion /clap

NF was a good expansion & was free & was needed. But in all honesty, over the past 3+ years ive been playing DAoC...thats the only good expansion thats been released. SI was just the same as cata when it comes to PvP...a few new classes...better gfx & alot of new PvE.

Im tired & fed-up, im fef up not because DAoC is going down hill, but because Mythic dont seem to have a clue what to do, they make changes & add new things that are 99% pointless when theres other things that NEEd to be sorted that are improtant.

Ah well... Roll on DnL ;)

Take care peeps

Bops
 

Shafu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Messages
224
I agree with your conclusion although not necessarily for the same reasons. It does seem like Mythic are missing a lot of obvious issues. They are so obsessed with analyzing numbers. "Need specifics, working as intended"... sometimes you (Mythic) just have to take a step back, look at the bigger picture and use some common sense :)
 

Bracken

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
2,368
I don't agree DAOC is going down hill. I think TOA was the low point, particularly in RvR terms, but most of what I've seen since then looks promising for the majority of players. Catacombs classes had the potential to set it back but 1.75, atleast with Warlocks, seems to put that right. And if nothing else, the graphics upgrade that Catacombs brings was badly needed. Could be argued that the graphics upgrade could have been done as a free patch, but tbh £20 aint much. That ain't to say there aren't problems still, but from what I see both at present and upcoming looks to me like things are back on track and improving.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
balance issues don't get fixed "quickly" because you can't actually get anyone to agree on what's a good balance change ;)
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
Balance changes and fix priorities.

While I don't work for Mythic and thus can't give you an official answer on their behalf, I can give you answers to a few of your points.

Q: Why do somethings get fixed but bigger problems stay as they are? Why do Mythic put in 'fluff' rather than dealing with serious issues?
A: Because it depends on several things. If it's an obvious bug and doesn't need a lot of dev time to sort out then it can be stuck in a patch or hotfix pretty much straight away. Example being the Valkyrie buff-shear fix, they were supposed to share the same timer and they didn't so as it's a simple fix to change the timers, they did it. Would have taken no time at all to do that. Other issues are more complex. First of all, everyone has to agree that there is a problem. Then they have to agree what the problem is, finally they have to agree on how to fix it without affecting anything else that might have access to similar abilities. The right way isn't as obvious as it seems, every tester on Pendragon will have test logs backing up their arguments and in most cases they'll be entirely contradictory. Team Lead A will be saying 'make my class stronger' while Team Lead B will be saying that class A is too strong and his class can't beat it. There are several hundred thousand players across the world who play/have played this game and each of them will hold a different view of what is balanced or not and how to fix it. If Mythic implemented every aspect of every TL report exactly as the TL suggested, all that would happen would be a spiral of all characters getting rapidly more overpowered. This time next year, Armsmen would be firing 600 delve lifetaps as bolt-range instas while in combat.
Some bugs are so generally embedded in the code that it'll take a major redesign to fix them. Major redesigns take a lot of developer time a lot of testing time and have significant impact on many different aspects of the game - all of which need to be tested and possible fixed as separate issues. I have no doubt that if fixing pet pathing was as simple as changing a couple of lines of code, it would have been done already and a long time ago.

Expansions:
Before ToA was released there was practically no high end PvE content. When you got your character to 50, you had very few options other than RvR, dragon raids or the SI epic dungeon. This isn't a purely RvR game, it's also a PvE game and not everybody wants to RvR all the time. Many people wanted more things to do with their 50s, they also wanted more interesting PvE encounters. So Mythic brought out ToA pretty much to fill this gap. High level PvE content with puzzles to solve, encounters that required thinking and tactics and mobs that behaved more intelligently than previous content. Did they get it right? Well that's down to your point of view, however they filled a need that had been asked for by the players. If it was my job to redesign ToA, I'd certainly make some changes, however the expansion was a good one in terms of what it was supposed to offer - challenging high level PvE.
New Frontiers was a much needed shot in the arm for RvR. It stopped the endless 'emain-grind' that casual players couldn't easily take part in and made RvR more objective focussed - just like a real war, the realm war became more about achieving goals rather than killing as many enemy as possible.
Catacombs is in response to player feedback regarding previous expansions and is Mythic again giving the players what they asked for. More interesting PvE at all levels, less 'grind' required to gain levels, abilities and items that are useful but don't upset the RvR status quo. One of the biggest complaints that people levelled at ToA was the opinion that you had to do artifacts and MLs to be competitive in RvR. People complained that without the expansion they would not be able to take part in the realm war. So Mythic were careful not to put anything in Catacombs that might be seen as a 'must have' for existing RvR players. Now people are complaining that there's nothing in Catacombs for their existing RvR characters.... Mythic were never going to release another RvR oriented expansion so close to NF. NF is the framework for all RvR content and any changes to that will come in patches gradually rather than another expansion to shake it up completely. Catacombs isn't for existing RvR oriented characters, just as ToA wasn't for newbie characters just starting out or NF wasn't for players who liked a lot of PvE. Each fills a different niche and caters to a different section of the playerbase. Each of them however makes the game bigger and better in different ways.
 

Kinag

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,217
Armsmen insta-lifetapping with a 600 delve bolt range nuke..

That's a scary thought :-s
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
Penlid said:
Didn't they also say ToA wouldn't affect RvR?! :)
No I believe they said that ToA wouldn't directly affect RvR in that there would be no RvR specific content in it. At the time people were expecting either an RvR focussed expansion or another PvE one. Mythic said that ToA would be a PvE expansion rather than a RvR one.

There was a long debate about this on VNboards some time ago. If someone is more bored than I am they are welcome to trawl back through VN and Herald archives to find the exact quotes.
 

Ezteq

Queen of OT
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
13,457
dont know if this will get any attention or if it would even work but i would definately renew account if mythic made a server which was just classic (with DF) camelot, possibly SI.

I used to have so much fun playing back then but when TOA came all my items became useless ( said this b4 soo many times) and it was no longer fun, i already have to go to work in the day i dont want to play a game that feels like work (and is less enjoyable than my rl job).

The way i thought of it would be no /lvl no necros (as they came out later , infact none of the newer classes) just the old style DAoC but maybe with a higher group hunting bonus to stop the trend of people just PLing their alts, the more in the group the higher the bonus?, however to stop it becoming mundane and people losing interest it could be more of a fun server with events ( i loved when they put on events in the villages, phoenix legion had their birthday party as an event with games and duelling contests, special npc's etc) and maybe some new quests, one off mobs stuff like that.

The quests i thought they could do on a time scale so you only have a couple of weeks to do it, then it gets changed so people dont know exactly what to do, for those that didnt get to do the quest have same items or choice of items but just a different way of getting them (i was quite fond of the infiltrator quests where you had to solve riddles etc) really give folks something to think about instead of just bashing away and sliding in to a coma.

One off mobs would be kind of like an event, could maybe have the dragon do a fly-by nuking of camelot city, or some stray giants going on the rampage. It would be an excellant oppertunity to look in to mythology and dig up some great old monsters like medusa roaming about in camelot hills, or the kracken popping out of a lake, you know stuff like that.

Crafting would be another area to look in to, i used to enjoy cratfing but it was somewhat tedious, there were some crafter quests that were introduced that gave you items to aid your crafting abilitys and these were good fun. For those days when you just cant face pve/pvp then crafting was a nice way to still do something productive but maybe the player could be more involved with the process, like going out and hunting for the materials instead of just buying them.

These are just a few ideas i have but if they were implemented on a special server (as it stands you have to keep up with the patches, add ons to even stand a chance, this offers folk a way to play the game the way they want to, with out being forced to start all over again everytime a new add on comes out) I for one would definately come back and i know quite a few of my old friends would too, there are so many threads on these forums saying about "The good old days" and how so many people miss them, why doesnt mythic listen to these people? they are the customers after all.

If there would be any way of this happening i would love to hear about it, but then im just one small voice, why should they listen to me?
 

Esselinithia

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,110
Requiel said:
No I believe they said that ToA wouldn't directly affect RvR in that there would be no RvR specific content in it. At the time people were expecting either an RvR focussed expansion or another PvE one. Mythic said that ToA would be a PvE expansion rather than a RvR one.

There was a long debate about this on VNboards some time ago. If someone is more bored than I am they are welcome to trawl back through VN and Herald archives to find the exact quotes.
I think there is a key element about TOA, and understanding it is a very imporant matter. First of all: In the game you expect rewards, and expect to use these rewards in RVR, no matter if the rewards are from SIDI or another raid, yet the content of TOA is fully independent from RVR and it is VERY important. But why Mythic focuses on PVE content?

For people who think the game is about the 12 traditional RVR zones, and roaming with a group of 8 in a limited land and beating each other in combat there are many combat games, and DaOC isn't a combat game. It is an MMORPG, a game about the community, roleplaying, your character development, etc. it makes it mostly a PVE game. If you remember, most traditional roleplaying games are focusing on PVE as well.

I think if you have most of the areas explored nothing new to discover, limited freedom, no new quests, that can make the game boring, make groups vanish, it isn't newbie friendly, and it is what made leveling grind for many. It is a bigger problem than any game balance problem since it hurts all, hurts everywhere and hurts community and the chances to get new people. Imho Mythic should work on this problem, and they do a good job.

If hibs are stronger? Who cares, you can still play the game, and with time, and new events the balance will change, as in the real world, as in a real war. If a Realm dominates RvR for months and make it pointless to do anything with RVR that can be a problem, but it is a rare event, and so far it was always fixed. A savage beats your merc? AND? If you came to play an MMORPG where yu have different characters and not fotm toons, you play it as an rpg not as a combat game, you can laugh and enjoy the game.

The moment, they don't add new content, and you seen a lot, and nothing interesting catch your eyes, nothing new happens, nothing new gets developed the game dies.

Yes, there are problems with monster pathing, but a new pathfinding algorithm, new zone data, etc is a BIG work, it can be improved only if you rebuild many things from ground up, this is why we have the big expansions, like SI, TOA, Catacombs: They all offer new engines. And we are speaking about not small work, and most of the expansions build on each other. The new code used in Foundations used in a lot of places.

A lot of things can be changed ONLY if all clients support your new systems, etc. but we still have players who don't have Foundations installed. Path finding depends on handling terrain data, and as you see Foundations added a dynamic terrain (with the houses) ability to create copies of some elements (again, houses inside and outside) placing static objects, etc. a lot of zones can be designed or remodelled with this support, and if you build on it, you will have different zone data and different pathfinding.

TOA terrain handling is again different, path finding became more complex with new swimming rules, etc. New Frontiers as a new and big expansion made possible to use TOA and Foundations specific features in RVR for everyone: It was here to allow fixing a lot of problems. One must do it step by step. There is no other way.
 

Gamah

Banned
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
13,042
I love toa, (not the pve) but the added dimentions it brought to RvR..although its kinda whos arti's up wins atm in reguards to higher rvr...rr7+ (solo not fg)

The only thing I dont like is power leveling, the game could do a lot if they stopped powerleveling (no xp for players 8 levels below the highest in the grp) would make the game fun again as people to get groups all the way up to 50.
 

Gamah

Banned
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
13,042
To the original poster, the reason they brought out cata was to address the issue of other games having better pve..you think they should just focus on the strong point rather than trying to bring the whole game up?...doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
 

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