To ns (infs) and stats interested, test 1.1!!!

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dexa

Guest
Hi u all statisticians :)

I have been searching many sites to see the effect what piercing over 50 does/helps.
Havent founded much but here on BW i read alot about it and many ppl here are very convinced that piercing over 50 is a must.
(Remember this is no lecture about it just a test from my side and pls if u have any stats, post them).

Anyway I did a test, it have its faults like all does but I think it went quite ok.
I am rrk 7 and still had my respec so why not use it now before 1.62 so if I want to change CS or piercing I can do it later.
The test was done on a hero, both was unbuffed and i used a dob with con 100% qua 100% speed 2.2.

I started with piercing 34 + 16 and CS 39 + 11 so the test will be between piercing 50, 55 and 60 also between piercing 60 CS 50 and piercing 60 CS 55.

I only used garotte - achilles heel combo because it is the most used one and who wants to sit and count all day, but instead I got enough numbers to get the test done with 95% accuracy.
The first number is the mean with about 30 hits and the second one i took away the 5 highest and 5 lowest hits. Heal have fewer hits because of miss and have about 25 hits.


Garotte - Heal - The real mean X is with 95% betwin this numbers

Piercing 50

58.75 - 67.00 - (55.67<X<61.83)
59.22 - 67.00 - (56.51<X<61.93)

Piercing 55

59.04 - 69.22 - (56.23<X<61.85)
58.69 - 69.01

Piercing 60

59.34 - 70.38 - (56.53<X<62.15)
59.11 - 71.28

Piercing 60 and CS 55

59.93 - 69.48 - (57.15<X<62.71)
59.90 - 69.93

I also counted on the normal hits but is was so small difference and I counted only the mean on garotte. If any intressed i used the t-test on the mean:

(X¡+or-(t1-Ó/2*s/squr n); s²=($Xi²÷-($Xi)²/n)/n-1), t1-Ó/2=1.990,n=tests)
(bahh for signs, $ = the sum and offcourse goes from 1 to n)

I also counted on the miss rate but really saw nothing there.

Theres always many small issues about tests, the one I am thinking about is that during the test somewhere the con went to 99% on the fang.

I hope I dident bored you :( with this test and i wont say what u should do.
Whatever u choose u wont gimp yourself (I hope) it all depends on what style u think looks cool :p or for sum its easier to use the diamond combo.
What i can say is it dosent matter if u have "better" or "worse" stats then your opponent its all about how you play!

Thanks to Sguall (nafta) for long the time we spent in ardagh :)

from Dexa with love ;)
 
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Chameleon

Guest
Nice, that's v interesting stuff. The differences seem quite small and assuming those extra points were put into CD instead of pierce, I wonder which would give most damage-over-time, even when factoring in misses, evades, etc.
 
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Aloca

Guest
:/ i would have loved to seen this test done with PA style
 
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Aloca

Guest
Atm im only 50 piercing with +11 from items. this test shows that atleast i dont do less dmg with garotte.... but how about the dmg on pa, how much is the random dmg affected
 
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dexa

Guest
The only thing i know on PA is that for every point u put in CS the PA go up about 7 hitpoints.

Sorry i did not look into piercing about it but i hope you understand the time it would take, and looking on garotte that is an CS style it should be about the same conclusion.
 
N

Noche

Guest
Read the post Covenn started at VN vault about 70 CS stuff, and how much is the variance of it depending on the target.

Wot I´m interested is to know if the evade DOES count in opponent´s WS vs urs, or it´s completly random, if by any slim chance having low wpnskill would make ya evade fewer in real rvr (hell vs a zerker I seldom evades, ofc I die in 5 hits max but still 0 evade usually), then I´ll avocate for high pierce, atm 44 pierce is being quite good for me, dunno if sacrificing that much reach 50 and lowering CS to 39 etc would do anygood (small increase in wpn skill and a shitty style for tons of points).

Something worth mention is that increasing my str by 6 (aug.str1) I went from 999 unbuffed wpn skill to 1006 unbuffed wpn skill being a pierce shade, so if u can afford it, buy it, cheap and really great to have.
 
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belth

Guest
1031 weapskill, 50+15 thrust, 150 str, 212 dex (I think, not capped atm) for comparison, you should get same weapskill with same stats and weapspec.

And no, you evading doesn't have anything to do with your weapskill (unlike some friar posted somewhere, due to being ignorant), just your opponents weapskill and the other usual modifiers.
 
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dexa

Guest
If u say that the mean on 60 is 5 hitpoints more then on the on the 50 in piercing.
(and lets for making it easy say its a straight line, did a
boring test about it and wont go into details, just saying it is
can be so little more so not worth talking about it)

Then for every 2 points in piercing over 50 u get 1 more hitpoint (in garotte)
Just did a fast look on builder if u have piercing 44 and cd 17. U dropp
the piercing to 38 then u can take cd to 27 = 3 less hitp but 5% more chance to swing both (and 24 points sp)

More swing = more hits, crits, proccs and the remember the second dot :)

Just a fast count in 10 garotte hits:

44 piercing u get about 30 more hp then 38
but with 38 and 10 more in cd u get about 18 hp more from the left hand + the crits etc
(the hits on the on the left hand had a mean over 36 hp)
 
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old.Reno

Guest
The more WS you have the less you get evaded/parried/blocked.
Xanadu did a number of test on this with various waeponskills pitted against the the same 2 defenders on vnboards.
They make for interesting reading.
So don't lower your weaponspec too much to get more offhand swings which will then both be easier defended against.

Danita
 
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Chameleon

Guest
Aye it's about finding a good balance. My modified pierce is 50 and I have no problems whatsoever with being evaded/parry'd. Am also more than happy with rate of offhand hits. It'd be very difficult to factor in all variables to determine the optimum point at which pierce should not be lowered in favour of CD, but if it works for you, that's all that matters :)
 
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Marwolaeth

Guest
Very interesting indeed. Think personally I'll just modify pierce up as high as I can fit into an SC template but not break my back trying to get the full +11 since it's not such a major difference. Might save me afew gold :)
 
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Aloca

Guest
Originally posted by dexa
If u say that the mean on 60 is 5 hitpoints more then on the on the 50 in piercing.
(and lets for making it easy say its a straight line, did a
boring test about it and wont go into details, just saying it is
can be so little more so not worth talking about it)

Then for every 2 points in piercing over 50 u get 1 more hitpoint (in garotte)
Just did a fast look on builder if u have piercing 44 and cd 17. U dropp
the piercing to 38 then u can take cd to 27 = 3 less hitp but 5% more chance to swing both (and 24 points sp)

More swing = more hits, crits, proccs and the remember the second dot :)

Just a fast count in 10 garotte hits:

44 piercing u get about 30 more hp then 38
but with 38 and 10 more in cd u get about 18 hp more from the left hand + the crits etc
(the hits on the on the left hand had a mean over 36 hp)



Hmmm my spec 35piercing +15. 27+15cd = 50piercing 42CD
 
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belth

Guest
Originally posted by Aloca
Hmmm my spec 35piercing +15. 27+15cd = 50piercing 42CD

This is exactly the reason I see whines on VN about Infs evading more than NS.
 
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dexa

Guest
Originally posted by Aloca
Hmmm my spec 35piercing +15. 27+15cd = 50piercing 42CD


was just an example :)

i like u cd = 58.5%

ns = needs to get muchoo hits in fast, long fights not so common
 
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dexa

Guest
Originally posted by belth
This is exactly the reason I see whines on VN about Infs evading more than NS.

maby its because the ns isent buffed :p

well i dont think so!!!

I dont use boot and dont "feel" they eveded more and when fighting a buffed one i dont care.....
 

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