To Novamir

S

svartmetall

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Screenshots? Sure, I start collecting them from now on :) And when I bring enough, is that proof?

Yes, it is.

If Savages are genuinely way overpowered (which IMO they aren't), then something should be done to bring them into line.

But I didn't buy that Zerks were "overpowered", based on what their class was SUPPOSED to do, and currently I don't buy that Savages are overpowered either, what with playing one and everything.
They own in grps, certainly, having uber reactional/positional styles, but have CRAP anytime styles - OK mine is only lvl35 ATM but so far they feel like great group fighters and lousy soloists.

In particular I'd like to see logs to back up the claims of endless quad hits put forward by some non-Savage players.
 
W

Whisperess

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Not only is the savage overpowered, both Albs and Hibs lack something even close to it.

Most of the new SI classes are nothing like anything else.
 
W

Whisperess

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Screenshots? Sure, I start collecting them from now on :) And when I bring enough, is that proove or just my sucky SC (only 28% slash resists) and always lucky zerker/savage ?

28% + 0% absorb you mean?

Anyway - no - screenshots aren't okay - as they show damage with crits already applied - leaving us with no info whatsoever on if it was a crit or not.

Only valid evidence are logs during weeks of RvR, by all 3 realms to get valid data.

By using screenshots you're actively selecting data, which leads to inaccurate results showing only what you want to show - and not the truth.
 
A

Arnor

Guest
Originally posted by parzi
bring savages in line through LOGS, ok, but not through biased whines.

i wouldnt mind a little nerf if determination stays (and im sure it will). but without det = savage useless in rvr grp, mez = purged root = savage standing around and cant do shit :p
other hybrids can provide somthing to the grp (auras, crap heals etc) when rooted, or interupt, debuff and damage enems while rooted. savages could only take away healpower from the grp if they use their selfbuffs while rooted :p

i'm writing this cause i've seen some dumb posts like "remove det = problem solved"... ofc... you could also say remove savage = problem solved if thats your way of fixing things ^^


I totally agree, nova who is fanatically obsessed about them should really get some logs, do some tests, THEN come whine. Not the 5yr old "mommy he beat me" whines.
 
A

Antedeluvian

Guest
Originally posted by Whisperess
28% + 0% absorb you mean?

Anyway - no - screenshots aren't okay - as they show damage with crits already applied - leaving us with no info whatsoever on if it was a crit or not.

Only valid evidence are logs during weeks of RvR, by all 3 realms to get valid data.

By using screenshots you're actively selecting data, which leads to inaccurate results showing only what you want to show - and not the truth.

28%+10% (leather)+ 15% (self buff) - leather weak to slash dmg.

Ok, so screenshots don't prove nothing, right?, LOL, u want WEEKS of RvR to proof the case. Well, show me ONE only ONE screenshot of a merc doing 1000 dmg in 6 secs like Savages do, AND THE FUCKING SAVAGE DONT NEED EVEN CRIT TO DO THAT DMG. OMG, did u realised that the experimenced mids are saying too tha savages are IN FACT overpowereds?, only u and some random RR3- mids are deffending the balace of Savage class, cause u all WANNABE UBAH!!11!. A lone Warrior cant kill me whit my cleric ok, a lone Hero cant kill me whit my healer ok, FFS a fucking Highlord cant kill me whit my cleric ok, but a RR3 savage not only can but do usually, and my cleric cant do a shit cause the freaking guy hit me 12 times in 8 secs! and u think that hit in that rate is ok, right?...
 
S

StormriderX

Guest
Originally posted by svartmetall
In the same way that Zerk-whiners made out that Zerks killed everything before them in seconds, one-shotted Paladins, and generally annihilated all other classes.

Which was also bullshit.

"Loff and stormride attack my heale i go for loff and 3 shot kill him"

Quote from guardsxmen rr9 zerk on the lol guardsxmen thread by novamir.

Loff was rr6 at the time wearing scale with capped slash resists.

Loff is a champion.

Loff got 3 shotted.

Zerks deserve the nerf.

Case closed.
 
N

Novamir

Guest
Originally posted by Arnor
I totally agree, nova who is fanatically obsessed about them should really get some logs, do some tests, THEN come whine. Not the 5yr old "mommy he beat me" whines.

i dont remember saying that once actually. and can you imagine how hard it is for me to obtain logs? Sub said he'll get some for me - so that's the best i can do atm
 
J

Jergiot

Guest
Originally posted by zmurf
The man is right, but all u mid's r apparently so afraid to get 1 more dmg dealing class in line ull rather cover ur eyes and over look the true powers of a savage and then flame Novamir for actually making a well made point ...

Atm savages do more dmg than any other nme melee tank, over time, and they can get highest dmg hit's of possible in the lowest swing time(quad hit with bonus is like 4x200 possible 400added in crit's) where a none quick hero got 3 times the swing speed and hit's for about 7XX...

savages got 360degree's evade + an instant buff that nearly cap's evade chance (i think it's by this novamir say's they r immune to slam)

and the whine about they loose hit's when buff drop's ? lol it's % taken out of base hit's and with buff's it's a max of like 10~15% and healer's spam spread anyways so they get the hit's back without healer even noticing they r gone ...

Don't 'nerf' savages, bring em into line ...
 
J

Jaxal

Guest
Originally posted by Antedeluvian
28%+10% (leather)+ 15% (self buff) - leather weak to slash dmg.

puppet is an alb, therefor : alb leather neutral to slash
 
T

Trinilim

Guest
Why on earth do people say "give screenshots as proof"

Like you're gonna be man enough to say "Oh, you're right, I was wrong".

There's gotta be 50+ screenshots of zerkers hitting for over 1,000 damage, but still people (the ones that want screenshots as proof) say that those are "lucky" hits.

I can name the amount of people that would look at a screenshot disproving them and admit that the screenshot is solid evidence that they were wrong on one hand.
 
S

StormriderX

Guest
Armor bonuses/penalties are only 10% not 15%
 
I

Ithurts

Guest
Maybe Excalibur savages are alot better than every other savage in the wordl?!? :D
 
N

NP_Finster

Guest
Damage done by svg multi hits actually equals dualwield damage over time. Just that the quad can do a lucky frontload.

However: factor in a self dps buff, a powerful self haste buff and the fact that savages routinely cap personal quickness, because they don t care about styled front load and you easily have higher damage over time than other realms dualwielders. On the other hand the heavily reduced weaponskill cuts down on that damage while attacking hard targets.

Yes, savages need some toning down of their damage (i personally believe the self dps buff and the self haste buff should take a hit). 2hand savages are an entirely different problem due to tank weaponskill backed up by those buffs. On a sidenote don t forget that savages are the only light tank with a 'modern' melee style line as probably is mythics vision for the style line overhaul. When dualwield and celtic dual lines as well as basic weaponspecs are revisited more powerful effects are likely to be added to those and the h2h line will not look quite as overpowering in terms of utility.

My 2cp and greetings,

Finster, playing Kunry the Svg for Vigrid
 
N

Novamir

Guest
hi finster, btw nice fights we been having with u+estat recently, blue+white right? ;>


anyway, example of just now in emain: Kadaver - dwarf savage- evades <three> annihils in a row... annihil has 'very high' to-hit bonus. im swinging with a 5 speed weapon here (4 or sth with haste) - so thats at least 12sec free bashing on healer. this is why savages > zerks, a zerk in critmode is stunnable. so how are tanks supposed to protect healers? PF not much use when the healer is stunned..
 
N

NP_Finster

Guest
Greeting Nova :] yib yib.. blue white with the triangles...

I know what grieves you about those evades and i feel your pain. It s not a factor of to-hit-bonus though, i believe. Testing done by the Paladin and Warrior TLs seems to imply that to-hit-bonusses generally have no effect what so ever in rvr. Evade is/appears overpowered at the moment, because its likely the only form of defense that is unaffected by multi attacker code (i do not 'know' this, but it very much feels like it).

My guess is that savages will be nerfed, because they (and I) deserve to be nerfed. I sincerely wish however that they will be balanced as the light tank mythic believes them to be and not reclassed into a hybrid, because frankly i rolled a light tank and not a thane.

regards, Fin
 
P

parzi

Guest
lo nova think i know what fight you mean, was in a nice random grp with kadaver @ dcx, wasnt half of you rezsick then or was that another fight ?
but yes evading anni 3 times is hard :p (imo nerf evade a bit too) but sometimes a single slam hits too.
 
O

old.Reno

Guest
Getting past evade is all a matter of weaponskill vs the combined evade rate, only hits or misses are influenced by style to hit bonuses.

Danita
 
S

Subbiz

Guest
Originally posted by Novamir
hi finster, btw nice fights we been having with u+estat recently, blue+white right? ;>


anyway, example of just now in emain: Kadaver - dwarf savage- evades <three> annihils in a row... annihil has 'very high' to-hit bonus. im swinging with a 5 speed weapon here (4 or sth with haste) - so thats at least 12sec free bashing on healer. this is why savages > zerks, a zerk in critmode is stunnable. so how are tanks supposed to protect healers? PF not much use when the healer is stunned..

to-hit does not have any effect in rvr :|
 
N

noaim

Guest
Evade isnt such a big problem in 1.62 with buffcaps removed. One of the heroes in my group (dont know if more have that high) has 2062 weapskill buffed...he havent noticed savages to evade alot when he attacks em really.
 
T

tildson

Guest
BW is almost like VN-boards nowadays, try get your own site instead of this. Like on prydwen we've got www.prydwen.net and it has a much better behaviour and level of maturity.

And you dont get flamed or anything because you are in a special guild/realm etc.
 
P

parzi

Guest
yes heard that evade rate is based on weapskill vs weapskill of attacker too. got 16xx ws or something fully buffed with aug dex 2 and 50+15 hth if i remember right.
 
N

noaim

Guest
Originally posted by parzi
yes heard that evade rate is based on weapskill vs weapskill of attacker too. got 16xx ws or something fully buffed with aug dex 2 and 50+15 hth if i remember right.

Cant say for sure how it works, all I know is he hardly ever gets evaded.

Slam on the other hand is a bitch to land.
 
B

Blazor Meneth

Guest
Originally posted by agon
have you all forgot about zerkers or are you just being nice for once? :D

The nerf is comming to the zerks so now so they are seeking a new class to whine at (eventually nerf), in the end they might even complain on RM's unstyled staff dmg is overpowered! :wall:
 
N

Novamir

Guest
Originally posted by Subbiz
to-hit does not have any effect in rvr :|

maybe not with evades, certainly affects block/parry.. example: i can get annihils through guardbots on healers, but not LW anytimes.
 
P

Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Antedeluvian
28%+10% (leather)+ 15% (self buff) - leather weak to slash dmg.


I am weak to crush as Alb leather, neutral to slash and resistant to thrust :)


Ok, so screenshots don't prove nothing, right?, LOL, u want WEEKS of RvR to proof the case. Well, show me ONE only ONE screenshot of a merc doing 1000 dmg in 6 secs like Savages do, AND THE FUCKING SAVAGE DONT NEED EVEN CRIT TO DO THAT DMG. OMG, did u realised that the experimenced mids are saying too tha savages are IN FACT overpowereds?, only u and some random RR3- mids are deffending the balace of Savage class, cause u all WANNABE UBAH!!11!. A lone Warrior cant kill me whit my cleric ok, a lone Hero cant kill me whit my healer ok, FFS a fucking Highlord cant kill me whit my cleric ok, but a RR3 savage not only can but do usually, and my cleric cant do a shit cause the freaking guy hit me 12 times in 8 secs! and u think that hit in that rate is ok, right?...
[/QUOTE]

So true!
 

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