To anyone with beta...

[Oskorei]

Did you notice any bugs in WAR so far? I've been playing DAoC recently again, and I remember why I left: too many bugs...has Mythic proven that it can actually program these days?

 

[Popov]

The people in beta can't answer that......but ofcourse there are loads of bugs - it's beta. No doubt there will be bugs upon release like every other game out there e.g. is WoW bug free after 3 years of dev time spent on it? (answer is "no it has loads" incase you were wondering)
All we can hope is that most bugs are gone and what are left are minor and dev time is spent on clearing them out instead of ignoring and adding to themas patches go by.

 

[Mabs]

go look up "beta test" then "nda".

and honestly, what a stupid question, its still being made, so of course it has bugs. and saying "has Mythic proven that it can actually program" is crass in the extreme. go do better yourself, or stop being so critical of others work. nothing is ever bug free, its a fact of life.

 

[vayasen]

Well as a vet of many MMORPG releases over far too many years, I honestly thought DAOC released very well.

Sure there were problems, but the launch overall was very smooth in comparison to some others I could mention.

One issue DAOC did have which I think wouldnt be acceptable now, was stuff like albions main dungeon at teh time (Barrows) was totally unitmised. Think stuff like that was a bit off, but hey, overall I would have nothing but praise for DAOCs launch.


Where I felt they let themselves down was at the 1.5 years mark where they didnt expand on their amazing and innovative (THE main draw for DAOC) open RVR system.

 

[Mabs]

One issue DAOC did have which I think wouldnt be acceptable now, was stuff like albions main dungeon at teh time (Barrows) was totally unitmised. Think stuff like that was a bit off, but hey, overall I would have nothing but praise for DAOCs launch.

nor was Tepoks mine, which was far more serious. but then again, it was all cash instead, to the set value of the mobs, so it was worth doing anyway. and they put it in fast enough for normal people, ie those who didnt try to "win" and get to 50 asap.

and id rather play it like that, than wait another month for the release

 

[Flimgoblin]

NDA NDA NDA and the NDA NDA but I'd have to NDA that NDA and NDA NDA NDA.

imo.

 

[Aesgir]

NDA NDA NDA and the NDA NDA but I'd have to NDA that NDA and NDA NDA NDA.

imo.

Well put

Personally yeah i thought DAoC's launch was quite good too, there were some niggly little bugs, most of which didn't impede gameplay. The annoying bugs (like necro L.O.S.) didn't get introduced until expansions came out. I'm actually hoping WAR does launch in a relatively similar state to DAoC.....as opposed to some others such as Vanguard or yes, WoW, which didn't actually launch anywhere near as smooth.

They have also several years experience of building MMO's now, which they didn't have for DAoC.

 

[Vasconcelos]

NDA NDA NDA and the NDA NDA but I'd have to NDA that NDA and NDA NDA NDA.

imo.

and dont forget about NDA

 

[Oskorei]

Hey, I didn't read the NDA, so I couldn't say how non-disclosure it is. Alright it is a silly question, ofcourse it has bugs and will always have bugs. Thing is, some bugs are actually very annoying, WoW imo, didn't have half as many the first year as DAoC apparently now (still) has. Ofcourse I can critisize it, I'm paying for this stuff. If my pants are torn because of a production error, I bring them back and they fix it. Ofcourse I understand debugging is alot more complicated than fixing a pair of pants, but after who-knows how many years DAoC should be major-bug-free...I'm just hoping WAR won't have that problem.

 

[Mabs]

Hey, I didn't read the NDA, so I couldn't say how non-disclosure it is. Alright it is a silly question, ofcourse it has bugs and will always have bugs. Thing is, some bugs are actually very annoying, WoW imo, didn't have half as many the first year as DAoC apparently now (still) has. Ofcourse I can critisize it, I'm paying for this stuff. If my pants are torn because of a production error, I bring them back and they fix it. Ofcourse I understand debugging is alot more complicated than fixing a pair of pants, but after who-knows how many years DAoC should be major-bug-free...I'm just hoping WAR won't have that problem.

therein lies the problem

you have the game . item A. it has bugs
you add an expansion pack. item B. it has bugs
then you get the A + B buggering each other up bugs, which is even worse.
then you add another expansion pack. item C. it has bugs
then you have A+B+C buggering each other up even more.

the more stuff you put in , which btw people demand constantly, the harder it becomes to debug it all, its an uphill battle, and yes, bugs are annoying, but would you rather have all the daoc addons, with bugs, or DAOC + SI and nothing else, and be bug free ?

they dont have money, or man hours, to do both realisticaly

 

[Oskorei]

Actually I would have liked DAoC+SI and then perhaps New Frontiers, but that's it...but I get your point, although in DAoC a bad example...oh wait, I stopped playing WoW at BC as well....hey....that's an idea! No more stupid add-ons!

Before people think I say all add-ons are stupid, I'm only referring to the stupid add-ons, like TOA, was in my opinion, a stupid add-on

 

[Aesgir]

Before people think I say all add-ons are stupid, I'm only referring to the stupid add-ons, like TOA, was in my opinion, a stupid add-on

That would be when i stopped playing As Mabs points out, expansions are one of the major things that introduces bugs, due to cumulative effect and conflicts. Stability at launch comes about through a lot of testing and fine tuning, and most of the time you have a more lax deadline, the same just can't be said about any expansion. At that point you already HAVE the playerbase, attracting new players is a bonus, but you want the existing players to fork out their beer tokens.
DAoC at launch was one of the most stable launches i've seen, but yeah, the expansions then caused a lot of the problems that i've heard affect the game now.
So i'm gonna give Mythic (now EA-Mythic of course....remember EA wouldn't be happy with a sub par product with their brand name on it) the benefit of the doubt, as i had a very good experience of the DAoC launch, i can't really comment however on the game now, as ToA took the game somewhere i didn't wanna go, so i voted with my feet.

 

[Oskorei]

Well in a way you could conclude that the people from Mythic aren't stupid and learn from their mistakes. Also they learned what did work, like building on top of their RvR system...I doubt they will add a TOA-like expansion to WAR, since a great deal of players didn't like it...and bugs...well...after being troubled by alot of bugs I get a bit twitchy and start writing silly things on forums like these, but after a few hours cool-down, you realize it's just a game etc...which you pay for...but nonetheless shouldn't get worked up about...so, sorry for the silly spam

 

[Flimgoblin]

I'd say daoc is major-bug-free...

just some (most) people's definition of "major bug" differs from the developers

e.g. the "pets following while you're stealthed" was considered a "major bug" by a lot of stealthers, and a "feature" by anyone with a pet....

 

[Oskorei]

I considered rooted mobs sinking through the floor, then 5 minutes later stabbing your back while not being able to see them, and therefor not being able to hurt them, a major bug...

 

[Aesgir]

Whereas being a pathing issue, would probably only be considered minor by a developer. Its like a lot of bugs really, annoying as hell for the players, but it doesn't impact client stability, overpower anyone, or cause driver conflicts, so gets shelved. Its bad when they don't get fixed for months, but it is really only a minor bug, although its aggravating .

Nice example actually Flimgoblin, it was a minor bug because it affected all realms equally, so didn't unbalance the game. It was a disaster for stealthers, but wasn't game critical. Look at what happened with the Necro Line of Sight when they were first introduced.....it was useless fighting against Albion, RVR all but died. They just killed you through the keep walls (GTAoE wasn't fully implemented yet so little chance to fight back). That was a major bug, it totally unbalanced the game. A fix was rolled out VERY quickly.

Not that i'm saying any bug is acceptable, but hey, no developers think they are either, no one wants a bugged product, but its all a matter of perspective. Its kinda hard to feel objective when you're playing the game and something is driving you nuts

 

[Dervish]

I hear what your saying but people will always be wary of which bugs developers choose to act on. This is especially so when politically it would seem to be beneficial overall to keep them in. A good example is the following. Although I don't want to drag up old DAoC arguements here your example of how quickly (about a week was it?) the necro LoS issue was nailed is a good one BUT: how long were Bainshees allowed to nuke through anything? It certainly wasn't fixed in a week. People would love to just play these games but we all get drawn into them at deeper levels and many people questioned why such a blatantly OP class (oo Warlock also popped into my head then) was allowed to run riot for so long. Warlocks weren't "fixed" in a week either. The producer responsible for the Catacombs classes was allegedly fired by Mythic but in the interest of player base numbers the fixes took ages, long after many Bains and Locks all got into double figure realm ranks. Everyone who plays MMO's gets affected by these sorts of politics whether they take an interest in them or not. Admittedly Mythic lost out heavily to Wow but they had already done plenty of damage with ToA. Lets hope that with the greater financial backing of EA and the experience of the DAoC years behind them that they can choose to be less political and more 'game for games sake' orientated.

Personally I'm confident that EA Mythic will really ace this one and that DAoC was actually something of a 6 year beta for Warhammer. I think we should all go into it without prejudice and see what we find. To those lucky enough to be active in beta you really have a chance to help shape the game and I hope to be one of them when guild beta starts. I read lots of quality, informed opinion on these boards (yeah I really do ) and a lot of folks here can do a lot to help promote the game and I'm sure they, like me, already do so.

 

[Case]

You know this if freddyshouse your on and not the WAR beta forums? you might wanna delete before anyone notices as your clearly breaking the NDA by even talking about a bug on here.

 

[Aesgir]

Case: he's talking about a DAoC bug i believe?

I'm not qualified to comment on the Catacombs classes, as i wasn't playing then, but i take your point . I'm in agreement that i think DAoC was more of a first dip into the pond, and i think the team will have a lot of experience behind them now, and should be able to come up with something special.

In fact, my only real concern about the game is the PvP itself.....will there actually be any 'punishment' for dying. Its already been said there will be no 'constitution loss or xp loss, possibly rezz sickness' (can't remember where it was said, but remember reading it lol)...from what i've seen so far, with no claimable objectives such as the capital city....its all a reputation/contribution grind. Without items getting damaged, or something really to defend other than a couple of open air objectives....what exactly are you fighting for? As said in another thread, Open RvR needs a carrot, and personally i think (from what i've seen) that PvP whilst having collision detection etc added, has also been dumbed down to WoW level to appeal to that sort of player. No offense to anyone....but WoW players aren't MMO players....WoW has its own fan base, there wasn't 8 million people playing DAoC, these people have joined WoW, not the MMO scene. I think Mythic would be better suited appealing to MMO players, who appreciate the need to compete, rather than grind to some item, or get some title that means little.
Personally i think that outweighs any possible bug issue with the game. I'm worried that they are gonna fall into the trap a lot of developers are going to do, dumb down their existing formula to attract disaffected WoW players. I know theres an argument for the game to appeal to everyone, but really, if people really have an issue with consequences dying in RvR, should they really be playing an RvR game?

I'm going to play the game, and i'm going to enjoy it, but i DO hope the PvP style is more akin to DAoC than WoW, that means items degrading, some form of area control beyond some little bar that we see in the videos (not yet seen what its like when an area is controlled by one force, no vids on it yet, either cos it hasn't happened in beta yet or its covered by the NDA). And yes, i'd personally like some form of bonus for open RVR, possibly in renown/RP points to appeal to PvP players instead of all homing in on scenarios.

Yeah i realise thats a bit of a thread hijack, and probably a little preachy, but thats ideally what i'd like to see in the game. I'm probably not alone in this either. Those are my concerns at the moment, more than any bugs on launch, cos i know Mythic are capable of launching well.

 

[Aqe]

NDA NDA NDA and the NDA NDA but I'd have to NDA that NDA and NDA NDA NDA.

imo.

What he said.

 

[Flimgoblin]

You know this if freddyshouse your on and not the WAR beta forums? you might wanna delete before anyone notices as your clearly breaking the NDA by even talking about a bug on here.

*ponders the bright green FH colour scheme*

You know it's daoc I'm talking about yeah?

 

[Oskorei]

You know this if freddyshouse your on and not the WAR beta forums? you might wanna delete before anyone notices as your clearly breaking the NDA by even talking about a bug on here.

What are they going to do? I didn't break any NDA since I didn't sign any

 

[Ctuchik]

Hey, I didn't read the NDA, so I couldn't say how non-disclosure it is. Alright it is a silly question, ofcourse it has bugs and will always have bugs. Thing is, some bugs are actually very annoying, WoW imo, didn't have half as many the first year as DAoC apparently now (still) has.

ofc WoW didnt have as many bugs as DAoC did, WoW came 5 years after. DAoC didnt have all that many games to compare to, and ppl didnt have all that much experience with coding those games. and those few MMORPG's that existed back then were also riddled with bugs, some even more so then DAoC.

and theres definitely bugs in WoW thats been from the beta thats even more annoying then what DAoC could muster.


like mobs standing still after you pull them but still manage to melee you.

or how about error 131 or 134, of which blizzard still cant fix?


or BSoD crashes (yes, WoW even manage to do that on XP!)

theres lots more but i cant be arsed writing them down. just look at the stickes on WoW techie section if you really want to see whats going on.