F
Farnis
Guest
Here is the sb tl report - with "feedback" from Mythic.
I was hoping for a something, but alas Mythic have decided not to help me out.
/wave
/quit.
---------------------------------------------
We have permission to post our TL report feedback. I'm posting the TL report as well so the feedback is in context. Feedback lines are marked with an *. Please note this is the first time Mythic has provided a point by point feedback for TL reports.
-Bog
===============
1.62 Shadowblade Class Team Lead Report 06.11.03
"Why are you wearing a mask? Did you get burned by acid or something?"
"No, it's just that they're terribly comfortable, I feel everyone will be wearing them in the future!"
-The Princess Bride
Overview
The Shadowblade class has changed drastically in 1.62. Left Axe style damage has been greatly reduced. Unfortunately, in correcting what was deemed a bug, no adjustments were made outside of the LA reduction to stabilize assassin class balance issues resulting from the change. The changes have also left most players with the feeling of being railroaded into the Critblade spec template.
Concerns
Left axe is now as much a detriment as a positive class feature: Recent board feedback is roughly 2/3 would rather have celtic dual/dual wield mechincs instead. Previously, the superior left axe damage for assassins helped negate the drawbacks to the Left Axe mechanics (the "crutch" effect). Now that the damage reduction is in place, the drawbacks in the Left Axe line have no counterpoint.
Anything you can do I can do better effect: In an assassin features lineup comparison, the only benefit SBs now have is the realm wide ability to use a 2 hander and neglible hitpoints. Those that still maintain spec points in the Left Axe line do benefit from 2 opening poisons, which results in a marginal benefit vs swapping out weapons. Fellow assassin classes have many more options at their disposal to pull from (those options mentioned in other topics).
Shadowrun RA: Shadowrun suffers from little viable usefulness, high cost, and overlap with the Mastery of Stealth RA. Fellow assassin RA's are on a much higher potential benefit level than Shadowrun.
*We're not planning on changing this RA specifically although we do plan on evaluating all under used RAs in the future.*
Groupability: There is nothing the Shadowblade class brings to a group another Mid class cannot fulfill better, save scouting a camp or around dungeon corners, and the seldomly used danger sense skill. Thusly, Shadowblades have a hard time grouping and xping. New PVE features are needed to promote SB groupability
*This is true of all assasin classes and is not an easy problem to solve. We're looking into it and hope to make things a little better with the upcoming expansions but we have no specific plans to try and address this at this time. *
Armor/weapon tables: Armor resist tables and weapon damage type choices result in a disadvantage in assassin match ups. SBs are slash vulnerable and can only spec slash. This can result in the widest gap possible (opponent slash resistant, opponent using slash weapons which norse armor is vulnerable to). When the gap is narrower due to thrust/pierce use, fellow assassins have generally a higher weaponskill and a stun style to offset the gap (next point).
*While SBs are slash vulnerable most of the other assasin classes use thrust/pierce which means armor type is a bonus for the SB. We aren't planning on any changes here. *
Evade based stun style: Shadowblades have no evade based stun style option. This is an inconsistancy to a highly powerful effect. Stun styles result in allowing 6 to 9 seconds of 'free damage', often from behind which is unevadeable, making stun styles have an effective DPS much much higher than any LA style had pre 1.62.
*We're going to be doing a general style review, but the lack of an evade based style in and of itself isn't something we're planning to specifically address on its own.*
Specline Issues
CS line - the CS line suffers from style effect redundancy (bleeds) and latter styles in a chain actually doing less damage with no offsetting effect (Ripper). Speccing high in CS offers little advantage other than a higher perf cap, which is increasingly unlikely as resists have slowly increased.
*As mentioned above, we are doing a full re-evaluation of all styles. We do not feel that the SB CS line is so bad off that it needs specific addressing at this time. *
Axe/Sword - both axe and sword line do not have an evade based stun ala NS's and Infs. Both axe and sword are of the same damage type and offer no damage choice. These spec lines are generally geared heavily towards tank classes due to parry and block orientad style and chains. Both those specs are not dex based and result on a lower weaponskill.
*We're not planning on making a specific change to add an evade based stun style for SBs. But the style review should produce some positive changes here. *
Stealth - Stealth line is still suffering from 2 major bugs despite being reported months ago. Any style initiated from stealth can be lost. Spells/buffs/etc continue to hit a stealther upwards of 5 seconds after stealthing (stealth not breaking target).
*Report these as bugs. *
Poison - Poison resist rates are based on poison level which causes high resists rates unles spec'd high (same issue casters have). There is no check vs current poison on a weapon, which allows the same poison to overwrite and waste doses. Weariness poison on average results in negating 1 style lost for a target without end regen and is rarely used due to this. No dex debuff poison means SBs cannot debuff other assassins' weaponskill at the same level of impact they receive.
*Good point on the resulting wpnskl debuffs. We'll look into this further to see what, if anything, can be done. *
Left Axe - As Left Axe is a large 1.62 change, this is covered in other items as well. LA suffers from onhand damage penalty, offhand spec variance, offhand vs onhand hit rates due to styles. This forces a player to either forgo the line completely or spec very high.
*This is highly controversial and right now, we do not feel that Left Axe is as underpowered as many feel. We will continue to watch this closely over the next 4-6 weeks to make sure nothing is out of balance. No plans to change this right now.*
New Issues
The one line respec provided as a result of the Left Axe reduction is problematic in changing to another viable template in some cases, due to the number of speclines and the highly interdependent nature of said speclines. This results in a player not able to fully adjust their spec to a new one after the LA reduction.
*We understand the situation but do not plan on offering additional respecs. *
No RA respec was given, which is an issue for those that had dual wield-oriented RA's and now are speccing out of the LA line due to the change. This results in wasted RA points that are never used for those that now use a critblade template (as mentioned in overview).
*We have no plans to offer an RA respec.*
Left Axe - LA has several mechanics failings which cause it to be subpar when the style growth rates are equal to other dual wield lines as mentioned in specline issues. This is considered a 'new issue' as previosly, the higher growth rates offset these failing.
*See above.*
See hidden - the new see hidden range has had mixed results. Feedback has indicated many simply dropped the RA.
*We prefer See Hidden to provide a bonus and not be a pre-requisite. Right now, we're happy where it stands and do not plan to make any changes. With all things of this nature, we'll be keeping a close eye on it.*
Other Issues
Mastery of Arms isn't working.based on testing.
*Document and submit this as a bug. *
Enervating poison hurts SBs worse than other assassins. *Noted as per above feedback*
Disguise?
*Design is not something that is on the table at this time, although something similar may be seen in future expansions.*
Item Problems
Thrown weapons don't enchant in stacks
*Bug this. *
-Bogarte
*Good report. Would like to see more issues like the poison debuff vis-a-vis str vs dex and weapon skillls. This is the type of non-obvious stuff we like to hear about.*
I was hoping for a something, but alas Mythic have decided not to help me out.
/wave
/quit.
---------------------------------------------
We have permission to post our TL report feedback. I'm posting the TL report as well so the feedback is in context. Feedback lines are marked with an *. Please note this is the first time Mythic has provided a point by point feedback for TL reports.
-Bog
===============
1.62 Shadowblade Class Team Lead Report 06.11.03
"Why are you wearing a mask? Did you get burned by acid or something?"
"No, it's just that they're terribly comfortable, I feel everyone will be wearing them in the future!"
-The Princess Bride
Overview
The Shadowblade class has changed drastically in 1.62. Left Axe style damage has been greatly reduced. Unfortunately, in correcting what was deemed a bug, no adjustments were made outside of the LA reduction to stabilize assassin class balance issues resulting from the change. The changes have also left most players with the feeling of being railroaded into the Critblade spec template.
Concerns
Left axe is now as much a detriment as a positive class feature: Recent board feedback is roughly 2/3 would rather have celtic dual/dual wield mechincs instead. Previously, the superior left axe damage for assassins helped negate the drawbacks to the Left Axe mechanics (the "crutch" effect). Now that the damage reduction is in place, the drawbacks in the Left Axe line have no counterpoint.
Anything you can do I can do better effect: In an assassin features lineup comparison, the only benefit SBs now have is the realm wide ability to use a 2 hander and neglible hitpoints. Those that still maintain spec points in the Left Axe line do benefit from 2 opening poisons, which results in a marginal benefit vs swapping out weapons. Fellow assassin classes have many more options at their disposal to pull from (those options mentioned in other topics).
Shadowrun RA: Shadowrun suffers from little viable usefulness, high cost, and overlap with the Mastery of Stealth RA. Fellow assassin RA's are on a much higher potential benefit level than Shadowrun.
*We're not planning on changing this RA specifically although we do plan on evaluating all under used RAs in the future.*
Groupability: There is nothing the Shadowblade class brings to a group another Mid class cannot fulfill better, save scouting a camp or around dungeon corners, and the seldomly used danger sense skill. Thusly, Shadowblades have a hard time grouping and xping. New PVE features are needed to promote SB groupability
*This is true of all assasin classes and is not an easy problem to solve. We're looking into it and hope to make things a little better with the upcoming expansions but we have no specific plans to try and address this at this time. *
Armor/weapon tables: Armor resist tables and weapon damage type choices result in a disadvantage in assassin match ups. SBs are slash vulnerable and can only spec slash. This can result in the widest gap possible (opponent slash resistant, opponent using slash weapons which norse armor is vulnerable to). When the gap is narrower due to thrust/pierce use, fellow assassins have generally a higher weaponskill and a stun style to offset the gap (next point).
*While SBs are slash vulnerable most of the other assasin classes use thrust/pierce which means armor type is a bonus for the SB. We aren't planning on any changes here. *
Evade based stun style: Shadowblades have no evade based stun style option. This is an inconsistancy to a highly powerful effect. Stun styles result in allowing 6 to 9 seconds of 'free damage', often from behind which is unevadeable, making stun styles have an effective DPS much much higher than any LA style had pre 1.62.
*We're going to be doing a general style review, but the lack of an evade based style in and of itself isn't something we're planning to specifically address on its own.*
Specline Issues
CS line - the CS line suffers from style effect redundancy (bleeds) and latter styles in a chain actually doing less damage with no offsetting effect (Ripper). Speccing high in CS offers little advantage other than a higher perf cap, which is increasingly unlikely as resists have slowly increased.
*As mentioned above, we are doing a full re-evaluation of all styles. We do not feel that the SB CS line is so bad off that it needs specific addressing at this time. *
Axe/Sword - both axe and sword line do not have an evade based stun ala NS's and Infs. Both axe and sword are of the same damage type and offer no damage choice. These spec lines are generally geared heavily towards tank classes due to parry and block orientad style and chains. Both those specs are not dex based and result on a lower weaponskill.
*We're not planning on making a specific change to add an evade based stun style for SBs. But the style review should produce some positive changes here. *
Stealth - Stealth line is still suffering from 2 major bugs despite being reported months ago. Any style initiated from stealth can be lost. Spells/buffs/etc continue to hit a stealther upwards of 5 seconds after stealthing (stealth not breaking target).
*Report these as bugs. *
Poison - Poison resist rates are based on poison level which causes high resists rates unles spec'd high (same issue casters have). There is no check vs current poison on a weapon, which allows the same poison to overwrite and waste doses. Weariness poison on average results in negating 1 style lost for a target without end regen and is rarely used due to this. No dex debuff poison means SBs cannot debuff other assassins' weaponskill at the same level of impact they receive.
*Good point on the resulting wpnskl debuffs. We'll look into this further to see what, if anything, can be done. *
Left Axe - As Left Axe is a large 1.62 change, this is covered in other items as well. LA suffers from onhand damage penalty, offhand spec variance, offhand vs onhand hit rates due to styles. This forces a player to either forgo the line completely or spec very high.
*This is highly controversial and right now, we do not feel that Left Axe is as underpowered as many feel. We will continue to watch this closely over the next 4-6 weeks to make sure nothing is out of balance. No plans to change this right now.*
New Issues
The one line respec provided as a result of the Left Axe reduction is problematic in changing to another viable template in some cases, due to the number of speclines and the highly interdependent nature of said speclines. This results in a player not able to fully adjust their spec to a new one after the LA reduction.
*We understand the situation but do not plan on offering additional respecs. *
No RA respec was given, which is an issue for those that had dual wield-oriented RA's and now are speccing out of the LA line due to the change. This results in wasted RA points that are never used for those that now use a critblade template (as mentioned in overview).
*We have no plans to offer an RA respec.*
Left Axe - LA has several mechanics failings which cause it to be subpar when the style growth rates are equal to other dual wield lines as mentioned in specline issues. This is considered a 'new issue' as previosly, the higher growth rates offset these failing.
*See above.*
See hidden - the new see hidden range has had mixed results. Feedback has indicated many simply dropped the RA.
*We prefer See Hidden to provide a bonus and not be a pre-requisite. Right now, we're happy where it stands and do not plan to make any changes. With all things of this nature, we'll be keeping a close eye on it.*
Other Issues
Mastery of Arms isn't working.based on testing.
*Document and submit this as a bug. *
Enervating poison hurts SBs worse than other assassins. *Noted as per above feedback*
Disguise?
*Design is not something that is on the table at this time, although something similar may be seen in future expansions.*
Item Problems
Thrown weapons don't enchant in stacks
*Bug this. *
-Bogarte
*Good report. Would like to see more issues like the poison debuff vis-a-vis str vs dex and weapon skillls. This is the type of non-obvious stuff we like to hear about.*
