Bracken
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2004
- Messages
- 2,368
For what it's worth, the armsman TL Mors has left...not that it will change 'owt.
http://vnboards.ign.com/Albion_Fighter_Professions/b20902/78006861/?44
Oh and good post about quickness taken from this thread:
http://vnboards.ign.com/Albion_Fighter_Professions/b20902/77403448/?55
This sums up why quickness is your friend
==================================================
" Just had to reply to this to explain the point of capping Quickness, and advise you against leaving Quickness at 0.
First of all, if you have 60 base quickness, 75 points of quickness obtained from items is equal to 15% haste. If you're a Firbolg, and didn't put any Qui in at creation, you'll have 40 base Qui and that will negate 20 points of quick getting you up to 60, or 4% haste.
5 points of Quickness is 1% Haste. Haste is exactly the same as TOA's % Melee Speed, and it is exactly the same as TOA's % Melee Damage in terms of damage over time.
There are two types of damage when a melee style is used. Style damage, and Base Damage.
Style DPS will never change with haste. If the style DPS is 10, if you hit every 5 seconds you'll do 50 damage, add 40% haste you swing in 3 seconds and you'll do 30 damage. This is where people get their 'big hits' from going unhasted.
Base damage per hit will never change with haste. It's based on your weapon's stats. Weapon is 15 DPS with 5 second delay so the base hit willl always be 75 damage. Unhasted you swing it ever 5 seconds and hit for 75 damage, when you get 40% haste and swing every 3 seconds you will still hit for 75 base damage. Which means haste directly increases your 'base' DPS.
Add style and base damage together: Swinging unhasted every 5 seconds you hit for 75 + 50 = 125 damage. Swinging hasted every 3 seconds you hit for 75 + 30 = 105 damage.
Unhasted- 125/5 = 25 DPS
Hasted--- 105/3 = 35 DPS
Where did that that 10 DPS come from? 35/25 = 1.4 140% of the unhasted damage.
Now lets scale that up to something resembling real numbers. Okay a two hander 5 second delay hits for say 400 base damage before resists. That's 80DPS, add a .66 damage modifier style which is going to be roughly 53DPS, or 265 with 5 second delay, or 159 with a 3 second hasted delay.
Unhasted every 5 seconds you hit for 400 + 265 = 665.
Hasted every 3 seconds you hit for 400 + 159 = 559.
Unhasted- 665/5 = 133 DPS
Hasted--- 559/3 = 186 DPS
Why would anyone want to give up so much damage just so they can say, 'did u c how hard i hit that guy!?!/!11?1!!'
How difficult is it to get 40% haste? Druid Dex/qui buff caps out at 93, so 93 Qui is equal to 18% Haste. If the druid gives you that buff, they probably went 1 level higher in Nurture and can also give you the 17% Melee haste buff. Just those alone will give you 32% Haste (1 * (1-.18) * (1-.17) = .68) So you only need to add 50 Quickness to your template to hit 40% haste if you've got a buff bot, but you CAN go higher.
To the arguement 'I only need one hit cause I'm in an assist train so bigger hits are better'
Okay, that works for you, but I'll cut and paste from another of my posts on this subject the times where you'll be at a disadvantage because you chose not to get as much Qui as possible. This post also has another explaination if this one didn't ring a bell for you.
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=75333455&start=75348982
You will not fair as well without as much Qui as possible anytime:
You're out of endurance.
You miss a positional and didn't back up with an anytime style.
You don't kill someone in one hit.
Your next target is in range after your first hit.
A caster has bladeturn up.
A group has PBT.
An opponent has a class or pet that can heal in his group.
Your opponent has Ignore Pain.
Your opponent has a heal/ablative chant.
Your opponent has an intercepting pet.
You face a necro pet.
Your opponent has a intercepting/guarding group mate.
Your main assist is mezzed/rooted/stunned/dead.
You're alone.
The sky is up.
You want the enemies face down.
And of course the very important one I forgot to mention in that post. Divine Intervention. No matter how hard that first hit is, unless it kills them, they're going to need to be hit again, and again, and again.
The days of LW Champs one shotting people ended a few months after release. Even today, with BoV and Banespike and hits closing on 1k, that's not enough to kill the person in one hit. You can't hit casters for that amount, so you'll always need another hit. The faster that other hit comes (With Haste, not changing weapons to a faster delay weapon), the faster you kill the person.
MrZerg wrote "Damage over time is for suckers imo."
What can I say to that except that you're entitled to your opinion. Your comment on the Moose ability in a previous post explains why you like the big hits happy
At what point does higher DPS with Haste out damage bigger hits unhasted.
Lets use the scaled up numbers I made up just a moment ago and run a time line.
Unhasted- 665/5 -Hasted- 559/3
00:00 665 vs 559 unhasted does 103 more damage with one hit.
00:03 665 vs 1118 Hasted is now 453 in the lead for 2 seconds.
00:05 1330 vs 1118 Unhasted jumps back up 206 damage now for 1 second.
00:06 1330 vs 1677 Hasted back in the lead for good by 347
00:09 1330 vs 2236 Again hasted pushes futher ahead to a 906 difference.
00:10 1995 vs 2236 Hasted is still ahead by 241, and will continue to pull away.
00:12 1995 vs 2795
00:15 2660 vs 3354 Get the picture?
There are only 4 seconds in this example where being Unhasted will do more damage. If there's a blade turn on our target? Only 1 second after the 2nd hit does being unhasted have an advantage.
Who kills the caster faster without his bubble and only 1500 hits buffed? Hasted, 4 seconds sooner.
Who kills the 2100 hitpoint Hybrid tank faster? Hasted, 6 seconds faster.
Who kills the healer/cleric with 1900 hits faster? Hasted, 1 second earlier.
In the time it took the Unhasted person to kill a 2200 hitpoint tank, the Hasted person killed the tank and has got the next 2200 hitpoint tank down 1100 hitpoints.
See what I'm getting at? Quickness is good! There is a 1.5 second swing speed cap, but as long as your weapon's speed is not rated below 3.4, you will never hit it, (55% max possible haste with 250 quickness (Qui haste cap is 250), 20% Druid haste buff, and 10% TOA Melee haste without Celerity or Warden's Self 38% Haste) so every bit of it increases your damage.
My Firbolg Hero (10 str/con/qui at creation ages ago) with 39 Blunt 50 Shield 42 parry spec 75 Quick and only 2% TOA Melee Haste (No other TOA bonus on his template), will output more damage than a 50 LW spec Firbolg Hero with no quickness. Guess that makes me a sucker since I do better damage over time and have a shield.
Quickness, Haste Buffs, TOA% Melee speed. There is no substitute for high DPS. That's my opinion of course, and it's supported by facts.
Wrekal"
==================================================
http://vnboards.ign.com/Albion_Fighter_Professions/b20902/78006861/?44
Oh and good post about quickness taken from this thread:
http://vnboards.ign.com/Albion_Fighter_Professions/b20902/77403448/?55
This sums up why quickness is your friend
==================================================
" Just had to reply to this to explain the point of capping Quickness, and advise you against leaving Quickness at 0.
First of all, if you have 60 base quickness, 75 points of quickness obtained from items is equal to 15% haste. If you're a Firbolg, and didn't put any Qui in at creation, you'll have 40 base Qui and that will negate 20 points of quick getting you up to 60, or 4% haste.
5 points of Quickness is 1% Haste. Haste is exactly the same as TOA's % Melee Speed, and it is exactly the same as TOA's % Melee Damage in terms of damage over time.
There are two types of damage when a melee style is used. Style damage, and Base Damage.
Style DPS will never change with haste. If the style DPS is 10, if you hit every 5 seconds you'll do 50 damage, add 40% haste you swing in 3 seconds and you'll do 30 damage. This is where people get their 'big hits' from going unhasted.
Base damage per hit will never change with haste. It's based on your weapon's stats. Weapon is 15 DPS with 5 second delay so the base hit willl always be 75 damage. Unhasted you swing it ever 5 seconds and hit for 75 damage, when you get 40% haste and swing every 3 seconds you will still hit for 75 base damage. Which means haste directly increases your 'base' DPS.
Add style and base damage together: Swinging unhasted every 5 seconds you hit for 75 + 50 = 125 damage. Swinging hasted every 3 seconds you hit for 75 + 30 = 105 damage.
Unhasted- 125/5 = 25 DPS
Hasted--- 105/3 = 35 DPS
Where did that that 10 DPS come from? 35/25 = 1.4 140% of the unhasted damage.
Now lets scale that up to something resembling real numbers. Okay a two hander 5 second delay hits for say 400 base damage before resists. That's 80DPS, add a .66 damage modifier style which is going to be roughly 53DPS, or 265 with 5 second delay, or 159 with a 3 second hasted delay.
Unhasted every 5 seconds you hit for 400 + 265 = 665.
Hasted every 3 seconds you hit for 400 + 159 = 559.
Unhasted- 665/5 = 133 DPS
Hasted--- 559/3 = 186 DPS
Why would anyone want to give up so much damage just so they can say, 'did u c how hard i hit that guy!?!/!11?1!!'
How difficult is it to get 40% haste? Druid Dex/qui buff caps out at 93, so 93 Qui is equal to 18% Haste. If the druid gives you that buff, they probably went 1 level higher in Nurture and can also give you the 17% Melee haste buff. Just those alone will give you 32% Haste (1 * (1-.18) * (1-.17) = .68) So you only need to add 50 Quickness to your template to hit 40% haste if you've got a buff bot, but you CAN go higher.
To the arguement 'I only need one hit cause I'm in an assist train so bigger hits are better'
Okay, that works for you, but I'll cut and paste from another of my posts on this subject the times where you'll be at a disadvantage because you chose not to get as much Qui as possible. This post also has another explaination if this one didn't ring a bell for you.
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=75333455&start=75348982
You will not fair as well without as much Qui as possible anytime:
You're out of endurance.
You miss a positional and didn't back up with an anytime style.
You don't kill someone in one hit.
Your next target is in range after your first hit.
A caster has bladeturn up.
A group has PBT.
An opponent has a class or pet that can heal in his group.
Your opponent has Ignore Pain.
Your opponent has a heal/ablative chant.
Your opponent has an intercepting pet.
You face a necro pet.
Your opponent has a intercepting/guarding group mate.
Your main assist is mezzed/rooted/stunned/dead.
You're alone.
The sky is up.
You want the enemies face down.
And of course the very important one I forgot to mention in that post. Divine Intervention. No matter how hard that first hit is, unless it kills them, they're going to need to be hit again, and again, and again.
The days of LW Champs one shotting people ended a few months after release. Even today, with BoV and Banespike and hits closing on 1k, that's not enough to kill the person in one hit. You can't hit casters for that amount, so you'll always need another hit. The faster that other hit comes (With Haste, not changing weapons to a faster delay weapon), the faster you kill the person.
MrZerg wrote "Damage over time is for suckers imo."
What can I say to that except that you're entitled to your opinion. Your comment on the Moose ability in a previous post explains why you like the big hits happy
At what point does higher DPS with Haste out damage bigger hits unhasted.
Lets use the scaled up numbers I made up just a moment ago and run a time line.
Unhasted- 665/5 -Hasted- 559/3
00:00 665 vs 559 unhasted does 103 more damage with one hit.
00:03 665 vs 1118 Hasted is now 453 in the lead for 2 seconds.
00:05 1330 vs 1118 Unhasted jumps back up 206 damage now for 1 second.
00:06 1330 vs 1677 Hasted back in the lead for good by 347
00:09 1330 vs 2236 Again hasted pushes futher ahead to a 906 difference.
00:10 1995 vs 2236 Hasted is still ahead by 241, and will continue to pull away.
00:12 1995 vs 2795
00:15 2660 vs 3354 Get the picture?
There are only 4 seconds in this example where being Unhasted will do more damage. If there's a blade turn on our target? Only 1 second after the 2nd hit does being unhasted have an advantage.
Who kills the caster faster without his bubble and only 1500 hits buffed? Hasted, 4 seconds sooner.
Who kills the 2100 hitpoint Hybrid tank faster? Hasted, 6 seconds faster.
Who kills the healer/cleric with 1900 hits faster? Hasted, 1 second earlier.
In the time it took the Unhasted person to kill a 2200 hitpoint tank, the Hasted person killed the tank and has got the next 2200 hitpoint tank down 1100 hitpoints.
See what I'm getting at? Quickness is good! There is a 1.5 second swing speed cap, but as long as your weapon's speed is not rated below 3.4, you will never hit it, (55% max possible haste with 250 quickness (Qui haste cap is 250), 20% Druid haste buff, and 10% TOA Melee haste without Celerity or Warden's Self 38% Haste) so every bit of it increases your damage.
My Firbolg Hero (10 str/con/qui at creation ages ago) with 39 Blunt 50 Shield 42 parry spec 75 Quick and only 2% TOA Melee Haste (No other TOA bonus on his template), will output more damage than a 50 LW spec Firbolg Hero with no quickness. Guess that makes me a sucker since I do better damage over time and have a shield.
Quickness, Haste Buffs, TOA% Melee speed. There is no substitute for high DPS. That's my opinion of course, and it's supported by facts.
Wrekal"
==================================================
