Tips on 8 vs 8 ?

[reggie]

Heya,

Ok im playing on the german cluster with my enchanter.

My background in daoc is the following. The only class i ever rvr'd with, except from the thane for a short while right after retail, was my ranger.
I came back to daoc for like 4 times and all i ever did was play my ranger.
I never pve'd and at times i'd group up with my guildies in old odins gate or whatever.

However. Even though at times i did group with a normal 8 vs 8 group i really know nothing about 8 vs 8 mechanics.
I was a good ranger and was usually the highest scoring one on the excaliber server and played till 7.8 but i never needed to do real 8 vs 8, just duo's trio's, at times stealth zerg etc.
So i never needed to worry or learn all those 8 vs 8 words and tactical terms or skill turns or know which spells do what etc. Wasnt really any concern to me.
Also i lvld my ranger with another ranger friend and never in a group, arti's i didnt need a group for either since having a bot was enough and ml's i skipped entirely.
So basically didnt learn anything about group mechanics and which class does what.

Back then for the guildgroup i used to be a good MA. It was easy to distinguish classes etc. Now i cant distinguish anything anymore unless they start to do their spell/meelee animations. Everything runs around with shields and swords and all in black. Maybe something wrong with my gamma but i find it very hard to see what race they are even.

Also i seem to loose my teammates alot during fights.
I cant distinguish m easily enough to see where they are so i end up being alone in between albs and mids. For some reason names above players seem displayed at a way shorter distance then what i can remember.
Someone told me it has to do with when we engage i dont run to to our back, kiting its called i believe. Instead what i do is fan out and end up being ganked non stop.

Also if i would be MA what would be my job to target first ?
When i ma'd with my guildies i always targetted healer classes first but then again they were alot easier to spot back then.


So my current problem is when im MA then what is expected of me to target first... casters, healers or anything that's meelee that comes charge us ?
Also i keep getting ganked and killed in no time while i have no clue where my teammates are who aparently kite to our back while i fan out and i end up being alone and killed fast or constantly interrupted and unable to debuff anything. Im 49/22 spec btw.

On top of that they all use teamspeak, this part reallyyy sux, and im not used to listening to german all the time and with dialects it makes it even harder. I can write german ok and understand what they write but listening and understanding is a whole different thing.
Last time i actually had to write german, or listen to it, was 15 years ago at school lol.

To name an example. This will sound stupid to many of you but even though i had heard of body guard before and understand its the principle of a blocker etc i never did any research about it since i didnt need to me being a ranger and all who never really was in a 8 vs 8.
Yesterday a teammate kept yelling Reggie BG, reggie BG, BGGGGGGGGGG reggie. I couldnt even make out if he said BG or PK.
I didnt even know what bg is. I cant remember we used it on excaliber. For all i knew it was a battlegroup lol.
Turned out he meant bodyguard i had to stand still and could still cast.
Yeah i played in pock and they were blocking me but i never realized i had to stand still for bg to work. When you are bomber in pve you dont move anyway.

So yesterday felt pretty stupid teaming up and they'll sure remember me sucking at it.

On top of that i have only 900ish hp unbuffed.
I constantly see people say arti's and ml's are easy nowadays coz you can buy m with bp and lvl them through rvr fast so i assumed thats what new players did. Some old quest or rog items and farm bp's and lvl artis with rvr.
Aparently thats not good enough. They want me to have much higher hp and well im kinda stuck now on what i should do.
Should i go lvl my arti's first. I also still need 3 arti's i cant get a group for. Then i need 2 bp items which cost 1500 each. I only have 1300 bp so far which took me 2 to 3 days of rvr. BP's come really really slow. Im rr 3 now.
Then should i go do some epic quests or toa armor quests to raise my hp ?

Im also lvling a druid for buffing so i dont really have a problem with a poc or fins group if i can get in one, im bomber spec anyway.

Anyway overall its a bit dissapointing. Teamspeak needed and often listening to hard to understand german dialects, i still cant get the damn program to work so they can actually hear me talk, then low hp and crap gear, low experience with 8 vs 8 and so on.

So any tips welcome of what i should gear up with for the time being. Gear thats easy to get and cheap. Also whats expected of me playstyle wise in 8 vs 8 and tips concerning staying alive.
I do understand strategic positioning is important but somehow i keep loosing my teammates with everyone spread out. I wish their names would display at bigger range. Nowadays everyone looks the same in black, strangely i didnt have that problem in that past.
Im not entirely sure what that body guard range is either so when to stay put and when to run. I usually end up running around like a headless chicken trying to find the teammates i can never find.
Really think i must have a gamma problem or something lol.

Oh and how do you actually bomb ? Do i run in and stand still and start nuking, coz i got bodyguard on me so it should be fairly safe ?

Thanx,

Reggie

 

[Cadelin]

You have alot of questions there, I can't answer them all but I shall give you some advice.

1) Watch some videos people have made of 8v8 rvr. Any good ones will be fine. Watch it a few times and watch what the casters do.

2) Get your ML/CL and template sorted ASAP. A completed cheap template is almost as good as an expensive one.

3) Set up your controls properly. You need to be able to look and move in any direction quickly and easily. (No keyboard turning!) If you are having problems distinguishing between characters maybe you should check the settings on model skins?

4) Learn your class, learn what every spell you have does, when it can be used etc. Learn what realm abilities you need and when you should use them!


To answer some specific questions:
BG = Body Guard. In order for BG to work you MUST stand still and it will stop people hitting you in melee. You probably won't be able to cast much while BGed because there are lots of short range spells etc but at least you won't be taking damage.


(Pre-)Kiting. As a caster you hit like a truck but can easily be interrupted or killed. If you see a tank or anything running towards you, run away BEFORE it gets to you. If it gets to you, you won't be able to cast and will be taking damage. If you run away before it gets to you, you won't be able to cast but at least you won't be taking damage!

Positioning during fights is extremely important. Just remember that in an 8v8 fight people WILL get healed, a lot of damage over a short space of time is what is required to kill people. Don't give your life away cheaply! Play cautiously and you will get a chance to nuke the crap out of the enemy!


Bombing. This is when you have lots of people who can do AE damage. Normally you will have at least 1 or 2 pbaoers (such as enchanter or mana eld). Then somebody with Static Tempest (ST) or Thorn Weed Field (TWF) to stop people moving. Also having a few banelords with agnoy transmission (ML8) is good. If you manage to get the jump on another group it is possible to all run in and dump all this damage killing them in a few seconds. It is ALOT harder than it looks to get the timing right! Also casters that bomb are normally expected to have MOC3 which you can't afford and shouldn't get just yet. You should probably only use your pbaoe to kill enemy pets.


MA - Main Assist. Typing /macro MA /assist nameofdude-server will set up a macro that will allow you to assist them. If you are MA youself then target selection is complicated. I suggest you watch some videos and see what targets are selected first!


As you are new to 8v8 combat I suggest you stick reasonably close (but not too close) to the druids and try and stay behind the bard. Try not to be MA until you have more experience. Clear enemy pets on your support charaters and try and assist the MA. Lastly don't give up, some people might say some nasty things but if you learn and improve people will soon look past your initial crap play!

 

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

Yah think Cad nailed it. 8v8 is more or less a science, and everyone have diffrent ideas of how things are meant to work. As he said DL some 8v8 vid of some good grps that play well together, like Maurdrum, Xnys, Valheru, some old Public Enemy vids, Dem Hibbies, some Maelstrom phootage, Bad Omen, Vengeance pugs, Tedius Ten etc, there are loads of decent/really good 8 man phootage that you can watch to get insipration for your own gameplay, and or learn from.

And don't give up, 8v8 is what is the most fun part about daoc, once you have a nice team you play on a regular basis with. Also as with any team absed "sport"/game you will not work well with everyone, and sometimes it will be horrible to play with some grps or ppl since your vision of how things are done doesn't mix.

 

[reggie]

Hey guys thanx for the tips.

I think ill try the classic character looks again. I prob have to get used to all the newgraphics etc maybe that chars have. On the other hand ill eventually get used to that also i guess. Still find it hard to distinguish classes.

Also is there a gamma setting in the game that i dont know of ? Specially at nights i cant see who's who.
I guess also the distance at which names above chars dissapear has always been this short ? I find it very short and have char clipping, whatever that is , maxed.
I find it way to easy to loose my teammates.

Oh yeah i always pan around with mouse but i've been wondering if there isnt a camera center key that i can bind. Could swear there was one but i cant find it anymore.

Ahh i see now that bodyguard is battlemaster ml. So after Toa.
Whats the bodyguard range exactly ? I believe 500 units ? Bah thats small lol. So whats best. Me sticking to the bodyguard class or them sticking to me ?

The cheap temp in the mean time, before i finish my own temp which needs about 3k bp is a bit of a prob. I really dont want to spend farming for to long a time. Had to buy a house with merchant etc to try sell some stuff and make room in my bank and inv. Also having to save up for my final template and wanting to rvr asap lol hehe.
Im just doing champion lvls every now and then for some champ xp and easy money.

Btw from what i remember i have to reclick the assist macro every time a target dies right. It doesnt auto change targets. Im not how it worked anymore and well new mmorpgs i played after that confuse it more where they can auto renew new targets etc.

Often enough they dont discuss at all who's MA. Am i then supposed to be the MA ? When its not discussed i usually just make a macro to assist a champ or something.

About debuff, i just ask in group now if cold or matter is needed for legendaries. If noone answers, when no eldritch in the group, ill just stick to heat debuff.

They werent really nasty btw but i felt guilty for failing the group and it constantly dying with 8 vs 8. I always want to play well so i dont handle this sort of guilt well.
Plus you know how it is in communities like daoc. Its all tightly knitted. Screw up to often and you wont get any more invites with those that regularly rvr.

Thanx for the video suggestions, ill check it out.

 

[reggie]

Oh btw do the light debuffs break mezz?
They dont do any damage but just to make sure.

Should i get mastery of focus or is it pretty pointless at 49 mana /22 light. Im guessing the light debuffs are to low lvl anyway and for mana and stun itll maybe make a difference of 3% max.

I understand that all chanter debuffs interrupt still ?

As for now im going aug dex 3, since i dont have my template ready yet, and still have mcl and serenity 1, next thing ill take is purge 1 to see how useful it was again on a 15 min timer with 5 sec delay.
Im saving up for moc 3.

 

[reggie]

Oh and what exactly are the immunity timer durations on stun and mezz ?

 

[reggie]

Btw is it ok for me to just stick my zealot pet on a mezzer/healer for the duration of the fight and not worry about breaking mezz on them ?
Im not entirely sure how often he casts a dot but it lasts for 10 sec.

Often enough in between different targets im nuking i switch him to other caster targets to interrupt them.

 

[Cadelin]

Once again I can't answer all those questions:

You should not follow the bodyguarder (BGer). In some situation the BGer may follow you. However most of the time the BGer will follow the enemy tank MA and just BG whoever they target. The important thing to remember is that if you want BG to work you MUST stand still. You can rotate on the spot and cast spells but you can't move.


I am not sure what enchanter spells break mezz, the best thing to do is to ask a current high realm rank enchanter player. There are regular patches, bugs and spells aren't always logical!


For realm abilities, once again ask a high realm rank current player what is the best way to spec your RA as you level up. Respec stones are very cheap these days!


If you need some cash I can throw you some spare cash (or I might even have a few items). We can always try farming in laby if you really want to earn some cash.

 

[reggie]

Ah i found out that also for spells its 5 times the cast time for immunity.
I have no clue however if my stuns give immunity to all stuns, including style stuns.

Thanx alot for the offer btw but nah i dont like accepting money. I should really take care of myself.

I just dont like farming while i'd rather rvr hehe. With my ranger back then i got my arti's, lvld them with pve and after that i never looked back to PVE again.
All i really did all day long was RVR, nothing else.
Still somehow managed to have plenty plats back then, think last time i played i still had 30p from rvr alone.

Thanx alot for all the info .

 

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

Download 10 vids watch them all and u will have learned alot, promisse you!

 

[WiZe^]

check out some of my fav rvr movie's: nolbypride.se &bull; View topic - The old daoc movies

gets me all rvr horny everytime i watch 'em!

 

[reggie]

thanx, checking m .

 

[reggie]

Daoc Videos

that video site still works btw.

 

[reggie]

Btw i notice on those np movies that they seem on follow on the druid instead of stick. To minimize mezz casualties i reckon.

 

[Bugz]

Btw i notice on those np movies that they seem on follow on the druid instead of stick. To minimize mezz casualties i reckon.

Makes it harder for opposing groups to immediately target and spot the bard and subsequently gives him enough time to locate himself appropiately and start doing his job.

Saying that, you can roll with the druid leading or the bard - makes no difference really if the bard can react quickly and appropriately.

 

[aika]

Btw i notice on those np movies that they seem on follow on the druid instead of stick. To minimize mezz casualties i reckon.

erm? afaik its from bard pov and its always the bard is leading (the hib ones atleast)

 

[WiZe^]

Well u want the bard the dead asap ;p anyways