Tic question

[scorge]

Probably been asked a thousand times, which is a decent Tic spec for rvr.

Am thinking of going melee tic - flex/enhance, is it worth going crush and enhance or stick with flex. Or should i stick to rejuve?

 

[psyco]

cleric

 

[Nailez]

48 rej 50 enh 13 shield 29 crush imo is best spec

 

[DavidH]

48 rej 50 enh 13 shield 29 crush imo is best spec

Agree

 

[Hellsvip]

Few different specs that work

48 rejuv 50 enhance 29 crush 13 shield

Pretty nice holds its own

50 flex 50 enhance 23ish shield 9 rejuv

Standard heretank will hold its own and plays like a reaver but isnt ideal anything you can do a reaver can do better in the melee stakes.

50 flex 43 enhance 36 rejuv 13 shield

Hybrid type your mostly going for group utility by giving up some surviveability to have interrupting ui and good melee.

42 rejuv 50 enhance 34 crush 20 shield

Just a little more damage at the cost of some ranged (not really worth it vs the 48 rejuv 50 enhance imo)

Those are the standard ones all work just decide on your style of play if your solo often then i would advise 50 enhance and if you like to stay near zergs and so on then the higher rejuv is for you if you would rather go off and try build a soloer style reputation you can do that with a heretank spec or a caster one both works

 

[Tosen]

^^ what he said ^^




/hug hug hug

 

[kirennia]

50 flex 50 enhance 23ish shield 9 rejuv

Standard heretank will hold its own and plays like a reaver but isnt ideal anything you can do a reaver can do better in the melee stakes.

Except tics do more damage, more consistant interupting for open field fighting, tics have much better defence too and the instant snare. Slam is wubbly (I'd love it on my tic) but paralyze followed insta snare will give you over 9 seconds of levi damage on a running target.

Viper chain in solo warfare, because of the length of fights with a tic, will end up being used a few times in a fight, using less end and giving the same sort of stun duration over time.

The whole bomb vs 45seconds of 75%group (except cloth casters)magic immunity and DI/PR vs det discussions have been done to death though.


50flex/50enhance/27sheild/10 rej is still imo the best spec for groups, whether or not it's so great for solo I'm not so sure but I haven't had any big problems vs rej tics in duels before (RR was probably a factor in this). Sorting my solo template then I'll let you know.

Those are the standard ones all work just decide on your style of play if your solo often then i would advise 50 enhance and if you like to stay near zergs and so on then the higher rejuv is for you if you would rather go off and try build a soloer style reputation you can do that with a heretank spec or a caster one both works

What he said above

 

[Martok]

there is a uber spec but you do need pd 5 to pull it off

 

[Puppet]

Except tics do more damage, more consistant interupting for open field fighting, tics have much better defence too and the instant snare. Slam is wubbly (I'd love it on my tic) but paralyze followed insta snare will give you over 9 seconds of levi damage on a running target.

How do tics do more damage then reavers if you spec 50 flex? AFAIK Reavers have more WS, due to better raising stats (for melee) then tics do. Yes, I know tics have a self-dmg add which is always up, but that dont make up for the loss of WS, the loss of ABS-debuff aura's or no access to the melee-orientated melee-bonusses. Also, reavers have a self-dmg add on a timer which is better, even the elementalist base-dmg add overwrites tic one. Pure melee-tics with 50 flex/50enhance dont have that good 'consistent interrupting' - they dont have an UI focus DD for example. Instant-dot/snare requires tick to stand still and has 500 range.

Insta-snare + paralyze simply doesnt compare to slam at all. Slam is a true anytime, if your enemy decides he wants to face you abit, you will not land a *single* Levi at all as Tic.

Heretics can have more defense (or well, the ability to soak it up) and have better group-orientated RA's with DI, PR, RR5 etc.

 

[Jai13]

i run with 50 enhance 48 rejuve 15 crush and rest shield think its about 28. i love it gives me enough crush for the anytime chain with stun, which most times i can get off, and good shield so i can actually block in melee.

 

[Hellsvip]

Tics do not do more damage i am afraid to say kirrenetic perhaps you consider the resist piercing but if a templated reaver has it they do more and from my testing i do not outdamage a fully buffed reaver.

Defence wise yes we take less damage per swing but with a reaver having both parry and higher shield spec there is the defence.

Nothing stops reavers just using the viper chain in solo either so not really a point for heretics.

But i am afraid the 50 flex 50 enhance 27 shield 9 rejuv IS NOT better than 50 flex 43 enhance 36 rejuv 13 shield in group situations, you are still part of the assist train when wanted but you also have the ability for ranged interrupts, but yes you will lose the rear style 6 sec stun but to me it is a far far more adequate trade off.

 

[kirennia]

How do tics do more damage then reavers if you spec 50 flex? AFAIK Reavers have more WS, due to better raising stats (for melee) then tics do.

You're right, overall reavers have 45 more strength then tics.
45strength = 135 weaponskill.
With the same aug dex2/str2 and rr8, a tic will have 1653WS and a reaver 1788WS
1788 divided by 1653 is 1.0817
Reavers by rights hit for 8.17%harder then heretics. (the higher the realm rank/amoutn of RAs pumped into the equation, the less of a difference)
Heretics self pierce buff is 10%
Reavers CAN get AT to compensate for this which would push their damage upto 13.158%harder (multiplied 1.0817 by 1.05) but to fit this into a template, they need to sacrifice other things...it's not the best of artifacts to put into a melee template.

On the other side of things, heretics in a SOLO template need eternal plant (to compensate for no IP) which is almost as bad in a melee template.

You're right though, reavers hit for 3.158% harder per levi hit IF they can fit AT into their template.

no access to the melee-orientated melee-bonusses.

Not quite sure what you meant with this one bud, all heretank templates should have high melee damage, style damage and magic damage.

Also, reavers have a self-dmg add on a timer which is better, even the elementalist base-dmg add overwrites tic one.

The tic one is crap and in a group, an elementalists one is always preferred but still, it is permanent. For a reaver to get one better then an elementalist EB, they have to go for 36soulrending (12DPS instead of 10DPS) and they can go no higher with 50flex and 42sheild; this would leave them with 16parry. Is it worth overwriting the 10minute duration 10DPS buff with a 30second 12DPS one if you're talking about a fight which is going to last more then 30seconds?

Pure melee-tics with 50 flex/50enhance dont have that good 'consistent interrupting' - they dont have an UI focus DD for example. Instant-dot/snare requires tick to stand still and has 500 range.

MoC + ae snare is better then TWF imo. Sadly with the stupid essence damage stealth nerfs, TWFs damage is laughable so not much of an issue. It is used more in groups as an interupt ability. ae snare + moc can interupt a wider space if used by someone competent. Also, as silly as this'll sound, as soon as I start firing my ae's, I almost always get people charging me down then hitting for their 100damage a swing or nuking me instead of the rest of the group.

Even without moc, this still works well and helps alot when for example you're rooted and cba to purge (unlike a reaver who is stuck doing nothing until it wears off)

Insta-snare + paralyze simply doesnt compare to slam at all. Slam is a true anytime, if your enemy decides he wants to face you abit, you will not land a *single* Levi at all as Tic.

Instant snare+ paralyze is not a slam. It is however an alternative. Some people have argued slam and completely ignored the counterparts which although they aren't as good, are still damn fine additions to any arsenal. The amount of times an enemy has been out of range of the MA train (kiting)for example and my insta snare has got them killed is grand... That's an example where slam would do nothing. And if an enemy is running, a 5second stun isn't the worst thing in the world

Defence wise yes we take less damage per swing but with a reaver having both parry and higher shield spec there is the defence.

After respeccing to PD4 for a laugh at lower realm rank, I duelled a fully kitted out, buffed scout. His crit shot did no more then 150damage and his melee swings were between 25-40. Even with that low damage, he struggled to get past my sheild (27-42 sheild is a 7.5%block difference only). With 50flex and 42 sheild, parry wont be high if they want the nice soulrending stuff and rarely against a reaver has his parry been my problem.

But i am afraid the 50 flex 50 enhance 27 shield 9 rejuv IS NOT better than 50 flex 43 enhance 36 rejuv 13 shield in group situations, you are still part of the assist train when wanted but you also have the ability for ranged interrupts, but yes you will lose the rear style 6 sec stun but to me it is a far far more adequate trade off.

You loose:
rear style stun
capped self str/con buff
crap damage add....sorry, i shouldn't even really put this in
172AF (same as about dropping chain for leather i think?)
3%piercing dmg
5%ABS
7%block on sheild

You gain:
low damage attributes on all your casts
Uninteruptable low damage DD

Damage attributes are a moot point if you decide to MoC too.


Sorry for a long post, I don't mean to completely play down reavers as they still have very good points about them (hopefully soulrending boosts will make them more viable soon) but I don't see them as effective as tics in groups or to a lesser extent, maybe solo too.

 

[Hellsvip]

And yet strangely that scout could bypass that pd4 with a legendary As most smart stealthers that encountered me when solo did.

Does work great vs gimpy people who do not consider that.

Again you gain that ui which can be extremely useful against casters when you need to lock someone down as you can ignore any ae interrupts so can be great to regain some initiative, you underestimate it.

Yes the rear stun is very nice but it depends what you run with and i find that the snare is a nice setup for another tank (ie a reaver) to slam and both of us levi.

But arrows are not exactly a tics most dangerous foe at the best of times so i would not really mind archers firing at me does not even stop me interrupting Due to having a ui it doesnt lock me out.

Again i feel far more that having that ui can come in handy for interrupts and so on more so than not, yes you can be very high in pd and reduce damage by alot but again its not needed to that drastic level as casters should take over at some point and the tanks move off.

Also the comparison for armour its more like 50 enhance = slightly less than plate 43 enhance = slightly less than chain.

Block rate i find is generally only an issue when dealing with dual wielders as most shield users generally get.

At the end of the day heretics have more utility than reavers do and it really comes down to playstyles.

And all this discussion proves is there is no right or wrong way to play a heretic or to a large degree spec one we have many specs which in the hands of a competant player will do well.

(and side note that 3% resist piercing is generally made up by someone running aura in group)

 

[kirennia]

And yet strangely that scout could bypass that pd4 with a legendary As most smart stealthers that encountered me when solo did.

Not sure if baod/The empty mind effect it, should've tested it by now but I haven't been online in a while Have been told TEM does at least though (got it in my current RA setup too)

Great if it does

Repped btw for your 2nd to last point in the post.

 

[Vodkafairy]

funny discussion, malice is the most OP thing melee fights will ever know and no matter if you have 50+500 flex spec, malice will still be superiour.

and if you think any of those things you listed weighs up to the ui dd, you're very wrong. even with 43 enhance you still won't be a target trains will go for, and mages can't go for you either because you can just hit last attacker + ui dd all the time.

guess it does depend on your exact role a little, but:

if you need melee dmg in groups: 50 flex is a must
if you want to solo: 50 enh is a must
if you want to have more use then a braindead assist stick tank: 36 rej

 

[kirennia]

guess it does depend on your exact role a little, but:

if you need melee dmg in groups: 50 flex is a must
if you want to solo: 50 enh is a must
if you want to have more use then a braindead assist stick tank: 36 rej

Don't think I've ever grouped with you sadly in RvR and only came up against your hib groups rarely (I think most fights have ended with adds...) but if you think I'm a minddead assist tank because I only have 10 rej, you're very wrong.

Need to go out now though so can't really get into it but I'll post again later; I guess it's a kind of moot point now anyway as I'm trying to solo Just need to get my dang template sorted.