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Scouse

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We have some excellent bike paths here, they run a sweeper down them and all sorts.
Sweeper you say? So a clearly painted bike path by the side of the road?

I would disagree with your definition of excellent here (as would all the mums not using them) , but the other thing I'd draw your attention to is if you mean "segregated/separated" etc etc - then they also need to be "ubiquitous" and "joined up" before we even begin to make the cultural shift.

And we're nowhere near that.
 

Raven

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No, actual no motor traffic allowed, designated pathways. The bits that do follow road ways are at least a metre from the road and in a lot of places behind the barrier, In the case of the parts that follow the dual carriageway.

Edit, they even had an E-bike scheme going where you could pick one up at a station, ride it to another one and drop it off. Most ended up in the canal, so they binned it.
 

MYstIC G

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1 or 2 people a year die in collisions with cyclists. And there would be massive health bemefits (and cost savings to NHS) if we cycled like the netherlands.

We need to make it easier, not harder.
I think you're confusing insurance with apathy and cyclists can and do plenty of damage accidentally.
 

Scouse

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Cyclists can and do plenty of damage accidentally.
Do they? Other than something that can be t-cutted out, what damage do cyclists do? Is it approaching 0.001% of the damage motorised vehicles do a year?

You'd have to evidence this. On the scale between SNAFU, shitshow and clusterfuck then the combined per-annum damage caused by all the cyclists in blighty rates firmly in the SNAFU department.

I mean, there's a very good reason for this - if a cyclist is involved in "actual damage" he's also very likely involved in "serious pain".
 

Tom

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They put signs on the trucks to show them where the obvious blind spot is "BUT IT IS A CYCLISTS RIGHT TO RIDE THERE ANYWAY AND FUCK YOU"

Yeah, trucks need to better designed for visibility, but there will always problems from time to time, a bit of common sense from the cyclist wouldn't go amiss.

People complain about trucks, but even your bike was on a truck once, so was pretty much everything in your house...likely including the house itself.
Of course this ignores the simple problem of HGV drivers overtaking people cycling straight ahead, and turning left across their path. Which has happened many times, and continues to happen. And it usually results in death for the innocent person cycling. But that's ok, the lorry driver put some stickers on.
 

Tom

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We have some excellent bike paths here, they run a sweeper down them and all sorts.

Hardly used.

The industrial estate I work on has an entire network of them criss-crossing it, it's shorter than getting about by car, still mostly ignored.
If the "excellent" cycle paths don't form a part of a larger, cohesive network, then they won't be used. I can think of many "excellent" cycle paths around the northwest that are largely inaccessible, because they require that people who want to use them cross difficult, frightening junctions, and busy roads they're not comfortable cycling along.

The only way to achieve large scale modal shift is to build working networks, not orphaned cycle routes. Paris are doing this right now and has achieved outstanding results, with huge numbers of people starting to cycle.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-1YNAmWlk
 

Tom

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Do they? Other than something that can be t-cutted out, what damage do cyclists do? Is it approaching 0.001% of the damage motorised vehicles do a year?

You'd have to evidence this. On the scale between SNAFU, shitshow and clusterfuck then the combined per-annum damage caused by all the cyclists in blighty rates firmly in the SNAFU department.

I mean, there's a very good reason for this - if a cyclist is involved in "actual damage" he's also very likely involved in "serious pain".
I always say to anyone who suggests a cycle can do a lot of damage. Ride a bicycle into a brick garden wall at 10mph. Then drive a car into the same brick garden wall at 10mph. See what happens.
 

Scouse

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I always say to anyone who suggests a cycle can do a lot of damage. Ride a bicycle into a brick garden wall at 10mph. Then drive a car into the same brick garden wall at 10mph. See what happens.
I had considered pulling out that analogy.

Regardless of damage - a lot of the cost of motor vehicular insurance is all the DEATH they cause. So, errr....
 

Raven

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If the "excellent" cycle paths don't form a part of a larger, cohesive network, then they won't be used.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-1YNAmWlk
They circle the entire town, go through it, go through the industrial estate and retail estates. I can cycle half a mile from my house to get on the network and travel to town, to work, to the shops and not have to share a road with a motor vehicle.
 

Jupitus

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:)

Seriously though - lots of great ways to get around the place - just pick the one that suits and try to stay out of other's way - no matter how you do it. Also remember accident's happen, but if you pay attention you can see them coming and avoid them a lot of the time.
Sorry, angry mode is on... why the apostrophe? Anyway, please move on... preferably by the safest mean's of transport available ;)
 

MYstIC G

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Do they? Other than something that can be t-cutted out, what damage do cyclists do? Is it approaching 0.001% of the damage motorised vehicles do a year?

You'd have to evidence this. On the scale between SNAFU, shitshow and clusterfuck then the combined per-annum damage caused by all the cyclists in blighty rates firmly in the SNAFU department.

I mean, there's a very good reason for this - if a cyclist is involved in "actual damage" he's also very likely involved in "serious pain".
Thing is, we all have different experiences in life. I've had a cyclist come through the passenger window of my stationary vehicle because he came down a hill too fast and also seen my mum black and blue with bruises from head to toebecause a cyclist thought red lights were optional for him.

So frankly I don't care to indulge in statistical bullshittery, all sides can cause damage, cars are required to be insured, that should apply to all vehicles
 

Scouse

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So frankly I don't care to indulge in statistical bullshittery,
Not dissing your lived experience Meg - neither of those are good things. But statistical "bullshittery" is a solid foundation on which to base real policy - and cyclists do very little damage at all.

Sounds like you've been on the arse end of some bad and statistically really unlikely experiences.
 

Aoami

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Scouse

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They give positions of power to people with average IQs who interact with scum all day and end up acting like it - and they ensure joiners conform.

Had a really good friend, very idealistc, at uni who joined the cops. After 2 years he nearly quit, was getting bullied, tears and the lot as he described the casual criminality that he was expected not only to turn a blind eye to, but partake in.

Something snapped in him and he caved. Started gleefully talking about cruizing around Leeds to find people to beat up in the back of the van. How crims all look alike etc.

He was clearly happier, but had turned into an insufferable cunt. Which is a crying shame.
 

Raven

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You must mix with some twats then. The coppers I know are pretty decent folk.
 

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