Theurgy spec comparison! :)

[Chimaira]

Greetings.
Atm im retired from daoc. Or atleast having a break.
That doesnt mean I dont read forum/watch daoc movies/plan future specs etc.

My theurgy is in his middle 4x lvls atm. and is what I want to play active if I come back to game.

Those 2 specs are what I was comparing. and Im not interested in PvE performance much. rvr performance mostly.

here goes:

41 Ice/35 Earth:
Best ice pets. Still im told that the pets u receive at 25 spec gets the same dds same lvls.
the baseline DD gives a low dmg variance.
AE root which lasts decent even on det tanks.
41 spec snare nuke. Which I consider useless due to slow cast speed. and pets already snaring targets.

Pbt 8 sec. good if u wanna help out in pve. vs dual wielding classes kinda useless. But any styled attack removed is helpful.
Good earth pets. can reach top lvl. 1 min duration. Roxor vs defense classes to keep them busy. anything to make that d0rfie pick out his hammer and hammer away to get rid of that mach5 in combat earth being.

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45 Wind/25 Ice/16 Earth
Top spec nuke. which is hammertime dmg on
2nd best Ghetto ae mez.
Top Air pets. stunning bastards. bad melee tho but chain stunning a healer class can be fatal for the enemy.

25 Ice. here is the thing. those are reaching the same lvl and according to ppl ive spoken to does the same dmg as top lvl ones. in spec line that is.
only thing I can see with those is a variance in dmg due to lower spec. can be handled with +max to skill perhaps?

A ghetto ae root that can be easier resisted. very neat to have to backup that ae mez perhaps. yep aint the theurgists job to mez. but backup is always nice. Atleast imo.

16 earth. max lvl 37 earth pets. not sure if those will hit 37 if im 50 tho. Afaik they are. and therefor be able to cause grief anyway.
Lacking Pbt
A low lvl attack speed decrease. does this interupt casters? not sure on that point.



the first spec is what I considered. but after searching around the 2nd spec seems more solid and suitable to my playstyle. also with more tools.


Ideas?

Humble Regards

 

[Krissy]

Personaly I love playing my air theurgist, thou fotm spec (ur first one) is what groups want. Vs a pbae group earth pets are usless due to being weaker than air pets.

Air nukes do hit pritty hard if u have peirce/+cast damage. Mez is also handy in small groups as well as ae root to doubleup the CC time.

PBT is over-rated, Theurgists are normaly taken out along with the Sorc in the opening moments of the fight (if the enemy group is smart and interupts/CC's ur healers first) and nothing keeps u alive vs it. Specialy pointless since BodyGuard was added, If u cant take the hits urself then shouldnt have such a defensive spell imo.

Ice nukes are actualy reasonable with the correct ToA items, k not as good as air but they are decent + ranged ice pets for interupt.

Air pets are great for short fights, if a fight is gonna last more than 30 secs they kinda need to be spamed every few secs, for short fights there 1350 range instant chainabel stun is pritty decent vcs healers/casters thou they never actualy land at the same time as the healers use instants but np there they stop spread heals/single targets anyway + help vs runners.

Really depends what ur style of gameplay is for a caster, if ur a group lover or a solo/small group person, as well as what type of groups ur looking for (caster/tank).

Enjoy ur theurgist no matter what

 

[Jenkz]

air pets are a lot slower (sprint speed) than earth pets.

air pets cannot catch up with a sprinting target unless a stun lands, they also last a lot less (22 sec compared to 60)

if you are planning on RvRing for pet-spam interupter earth is better choice.

if you are planning on RvRing solo or small group air is an excellent nuker character with substantial utility.

 

[Chimaira]

Im just wondering the earth pets I receive with 16 spec will be enough to interupt. they will be green con due to lvl 37.

I had a Mentalist now deleted tho. and tried Mana/light spec. Light with heavy DD was my favourite.

I lean towards the Wind spec atm. Tho im speccing ice/earth until 50.

some respec stones will do the trick I bet

Thanks for replies

 

[cHodAX]

Im just wondering the earth pets I receive with 16 spec will be enough to interupt.

16 spec will give the level 12 spell which is capped at level 25 so will be grey.

http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?line=100

Personally I don't like the air pets but I loved the nukes. The pets are slow runners and the duration they live for is dire. 60 sec earth pets run at mach 5 and live for 60 secs making them a superb interupter in 1fg+ fights because they can take enemy casters/healers out of the game for a large part of the fight. Ok it leaves you with the baseline ice nuke, but speccing 40 Earth for 2nd best pet which hits for an average of 150 every 2.5 seconds, put the rest in ice which makes the baseline nuke effective as well as being a very fast spell to get off when buffed etc. So... my chosen spec would be....

40 Earth for ;

2nd best 60sec mach5 pet that hits for 150 average and is a fantastic interupter.

8sec bladeturn for PvE and static RvR situations like keep takes/defense.

36 Ice for ;

2nd best ice pet with ranged nuke, great for fighting PBAE groups when the pet stays out of the pbae range and spams it's nuke. Added plus of being large and easy to hind behind thus making it harder to target the old avalonian gimp Pet is a very solid nuker btw, 2 can easily stop any caster dead for 25 seconds.

49 sec AE root for the odd occasions when you have 3 savages on your arse, turn and QC it for perhaps 8 seconds (after resists and det) of protection. Useful as a backup.

Last but not least, having 36 ice helps hugely with variance on the baseline nuke.


The nice thing now is that for the first time in a long time the Theurgist class has viable alternatives and is not just stuck with spec's that only makes them only viable in either PvE or RvR. We are a much better all round class now and you can spec to suit your playstyle. Trigger happy fools can hammer the Wind nuke for evil damage and spam out orrible little stunning pets. The more caucious can stand at the back and spam earth pets on the enemy support classes, then pickoff enemy tanks at close range with the nuke or just root and run to safety. It took Mythic 2.5 years to get it right but they finally made the Theurgist a nice all rounder that is fun to play.

 

[Sycho]

Not quitting then chim?xD

 

[Chimaira]

Thanks papa Ch0

Im still considering what specs to use.

But to be honest. Im very interested in seeing how I can perform with the 45W/25I/16E spec

 

[Chimaira]

Not sure Sycho daddeh

Im retired now for a few days. And I dont see any point in skipping the game completely. but I think the break does me good. If the break goes to good so I dont feel to come back I wont.

But I might be back. atleast to test theurgy as a final project

 

[Levin]

fyi

Fyi, there's a level 48 ice pet too.

 

[Chimaira]

Nope but there is a lvl 48 Earth pet

 

[cHodAX]

Fyi, there's a level 48 ice pet too.

Not according to Camelot Herald

 

[Spathi]

my theurgy is fun to play and currently 41 ice 35 earth...

for a start he has the 8s pbt which makes him popular in PvE and is always useful to an RvR group, despite what they say.

i too don't believe that pbt is THAT useful in RvR, but with /assist chains and so on, is it even worth trying to get the perfect SC for group rvr or just go for all out damage?

anyway, the earth pets certainly make great interrupters in open field RvR if you manage to get one off and having 41 ice is lovely atm - mids were trying to take a our keep and i spammed two bars of power putting out ice pets onto them, 3-4 pets each, and since they havent been LoS nerfed yet, mids couldnt do anything about it as my pets nuked away from inside the keep it works just as well at milegates, and the baseline nuke can kill in 3/4 hits, less if theres people using cold LWs.

in normal group RvR you wont want to stand near the fight as a theurg anyway, i tend to run the opposite way to incoming groups and then turn around at 1500 range and start sending out pets, its better to just nuke at closer range

just my spam anyone kno when do ice pets get LoS nerfed btw?

edit: i dont think much of the snare nuke damage and cast-time wise, but fully buffed and capped speed i can certainly see the use for it in group RvR to prevent flight...

 

[cHodAX]

Pets are 2000 range ya nutter, run futher away Afaik the ice pets aren't being nerfed anytime soon, they are coded completly different from all other pets and it probably needs a major rework of the code which is why Mythic are in no rush. Truth be known it isn't a vital fix anyway, very few active Theurgists around these days and even less that spec ice. Wind spec is still insanely popular, those big nukes with mega crits are plain addictive

 

[Puppet]

There is a level 48 ice-pet (I know; tested it on Gorre at pet-changes) but it doesnt do anything better then the lower one. So no point in getting that 48 pet.

 

[Wharfe]

I recently respecced from 48 Earth 24 ice to 41 ice 35 earth. imho that is currently the best all round Theu spec. The combo of earth and ice pets is fun and having a decent duration AoE root is a nice added bonus. Base line Ice DD does okish damage and no variance. 8 sec PBT is a darn side less power hungry than 6 sec and not much use in RvR just like 6 sec PBT. Because as a pet spammer you want to stay back at around 2200 range (+10 % spell range) and that means no one gets the benefit of your PBT. The best solution is to make sure everyone has GBT on them so at least one hit is blocked when out of range. And run self speed to make sure you get in decent position while out of combat and the minnie speed is dropped.

As for ice pets here is the TL test about them.

Date Posted: 12:22pm Subject: RE: 48 ice pet
I've seen a couple tests now. So I will now release my most recent tests on this in 1.69. Following up on my 1.67 tests. I generally don't do this in exact numbers, because I don't want to see people 'pretending' to do tests and just feeding me back these numbers, slightly modified. (Trust me, it happens). My most recent tests have extensive logs however and show a slight variance in the top 2 pets. So I'll post it here.


Test condition : Level 50 test mob, cloth armor equivalent, single ice pet at a time deployed against the same mob.


Level 40 ice pet ; Ice theur 50+11 ice spec. 248 casts.
(No ToA gear for +damage, +duration, etcetera)
178.50 Average damage per hit that lands
60.8% of spells cast land and do damage


Level 48 ice pet ; Ice theur 50+11 ice spec. 248 casts.
(No ToA gear for +damage, +duration, etcetera)
189.90 Average damage per hit that lands
62.9% of spells cast land and do damage


NOTE: Both the level 40 and level 48 ice pets appear to have approximately 485 hp's, when cast by the same caster in the test, above.

NOTE: The more pets cast at a target, the more the chance for the target to resist each cast goes down. These tests are only a single pet, cast by a single ungrouped caster, on a single mob.

-----signature-----

Abaddon Ambrosius
50th Level Theurgist & Legendary Tailor
Vigilance Guild Officer <Guinevere Server>
Theurgist Team Lead

 

[lacroix]

I used to be 41Ice/35Earth and always liked that spec, but for rvr, Krissy summarized my general experiences

..PBT is over-rated, Theurgists are normaly taken out along with the Sorc in the opening moments of the fight (if the enemy group is smart and interupts/CC's ur healers first) and nothing keeps u alive vs it. ..

I respecced to 48Earth now as I usually only use my theurg in pve these days anyway
But if you want to do noticeable damage, air would still be the way to go, even tho I gotta say I always loved my aoe root and ice pets (still have them, but lower level now, ofc ); just surviving the first few seconds of a fight might be a challenge, but I guess this applies to either spec

Good luck either way

 

[Jace]

Although I'm tempted by Earth/Ice spec I'm 45W/26E/14I and have been for a looooong time (so pls no fotm shouts ) and have always loved the spec. I've found even the earth pets at I get form 26E are enough to cause chaos in openfield RvR and although the duration of the Air pets is poor they can turn the tide of battles when used correctly.

Of course the Wind nuke is damn nice but as an overall package I love my spec.

It's great to see that Theurgists now have some viable spec choices

 

[Krissy]

I feel compelled to point this out more for a power comparason than anything else.

Even thou with the Earth pets recent hitpoint nerf its still a powerful tool.

Yes Air pets have substantualy more hp than Earth pets now but the melee damage geberated by any E7ath pet green con upwards is substantual.

I use my green con Earth pets in RvR on anything thats running away from me, and this is y.

*Larre comes out of stealth and chances you betwen grogos and grannys near apk*
*you /face and nuke x2*
*Larre has 50% hp left*
*Larre runs*
*you cast 2 green con Earth pets on Larre before he manages to get out of range*
*You are attacked by a healer+SM Duo*
*Healer+SM duo die due to AE Mez*
*Larre was Killed by You!*

^^ tis what happened to me and been loving earth pets ever since, they are uber in melee even at there low lvl and imposible to run away from if ur not a speeder. Wouldnt have that problem if ur much higher earth but higher earth comes with more defense less offence which dont suit my gaming style

All specs have there bonus's and draw backs just need to use ur char the way u want, listening to others without learning the char urself can make u a terrible theurgist (Seen it many times in RvR, loads of zombies copying fotm style play without knowing y,how and when).

 

[Case]

the level 48 ice pets do roughly 15-20 damage more each than the previous level ice pets (i`ve tested it against good resists)

my spec is 50 ice 20 earth i find group bladeturn is plenty and the spec 50 nuke with 35% snare kicks ass

3 ice pets on 1 enemy thats 15 damage every 3 seconds more for each so 45 damage for 8 nukes so 360 more damage for the loss of 8 second pbt \o/

and that doesn`t count the times i stick 3 pets on every enemy so have like 15 pets nuking away thats like erm 1800 extra damage for the loss of 8 second pbt

if everyone managed to keep up with my twisted logic

 

[Wharfe]

I considered the 50 Ice spec, but I just felt that what you lose compared to the 41/35 spec just does not justify 50 ice. The loss of PBT completely and only gaining a very slightly better pet and a slower nuke albeit with 35% snare which as we all know is bugged due to root/snare immunity timers.

Gaining 13 secs on the AoE root and reduced outright resist rate is nice as well for 50 spec.

But I never completly rely on my ice pets I love having the 32 earth pet with 60 sec duration as well. my normal tatcic is 1 earth pet and 2 ice pets.

41/35 is just a much more rounded spec