Theurgist question

[old.Ozwin]

Hoping one of you fine theurgist veterans can answer this. Sorry if this is a dumb question. As an alt im currently a lvl 12 theu at moment speccing in air. Can anyone tell me what the difference is as you get the next level pets? ie how do they improve? i have been using the lvl 12 air pets and also the lvl 1 ice and earth, the lvl 12 pets dont seem to kill mobs quicker than the lvl 1 pets , sometimes even slower than the lvl 1 earth pets. They all con blue to me, i just cant see what improves with each pet. I am finding it better to send an earth pet out first, then ice then 2 air pets because teh earth ones last longer. Its been bugging me this question so hope u can answer. Thanks

 

[cHodAX]

Air pets do basic melee damage and mostly stun. Very dangerous to purely use them. The Air line in general has been nerfed anyway I would recommend against it. Earth pets are pure melee and do alot more damage. Remember that pets are always capped at 7/8's your level so at level 16 your pets will be level 14 etc unless you cast a much lower level pet spell. The spec I would personally recommend is Ice 39 Earth 37 Air 4. However going full Earth and full Ice works ok too and some people even pick all 3 and which makes them a utility play but unable to deal high damage.

The spec I recommended gives you nice ICE DD with snare, 8 Sec PBT and a nice 120sec Haste debuff that works a treat with 8sec PBT and goes insta next patch. You also get a 60sec AE root and 10 sec ghetto mezz for emergencys. You will also have the best Ice and Earth pets which are a lethal combo when things are quiet and you need to solo. Btw you will not get groups beyond level40 unless you have at least 10sec PBT. Groups love our crowd control spells but they will not take you unless you provide PBT as it halves downtime.

To answer your question, ALWAYS send earth pets in first as they last longer than any other pet, do more damage and keep the aggro while you cast more pets or DD. Your pets are always 7/8 your level unless the pet you send is from a spec that you put very few points in and then it will be grey. As you level your bluecon pets get more hitpoints and deal more damage but even when you are at level 50 you would still need to use the same amount of pets to kill a level 50 mob as you did to kill a level 10 when you were level 10. The pets never become uber but if you cast the right combos you will drop and orange and most reds easily.

 

[old.Hamish]

You have a choice of 3 pets:

The air pet is the worst. It does the second least amount of damage and only lasts 20secs and proccs a short stun. You used to be able to cast several air pets which could chain stun but Mythic nerfed the stun rate. Bear in mind that at max range it takes up to 7 or so secs for the pet to run to target it doesnt leave much time for the pet to hit.

The Ice pet basically casts a snare DD which is its main form of attack. Keep these pets as far from the mob you are attcking as possible so they can cast as they are the worst in terms of melee and lasts for 25secs. Good for pulling mobs.

The earth pet is basically your tank pet. It has the most hps and hits the hardest and also lasts the longest 30secs.

So when you get the next lvl pet it just levels up with you and stays blue con to you most of the time and occaisonally at certain levels it will con green. As you are killing mobs that are on par with the level of you and your pets it should kill any quicker unless you cast them on lower con mobs


I disagee with Chodax and would say spec in the manner you would prefer to play. If you want to be a nuker, air is the only way to go as its the most powerful DD we have and is extremely economical compared to the Ice DD. I think I get about 3 air nukes to an Ice nuke mana wise even with the correct focus lvl staffs. Most people that are specced in the Ice line dont even use the spec DD as it does the same damage as the baseline nuke and unless you are full Ice the base will always do more damage plus the snare will trip a timer so you cant root after and on top of that its only a 35% speed reduction no matter what level you are.

Also air is very good in so much as it has a large bonus against undead as its in the spirt line and there are shed loads of undead everywhere in Albion so leveling will be easier. Another thing to think about is that the end game which is RvR the resists most people have maxed out the easiest is cold so those Ice nukes will get a large -damage number. The bad thing about air is the gimp mezz range and duration and that the pets are poo

For PvE grouping pbt is a must really.

Armatage

 

[cHodAX]

Hmm, I think you will find the Mids and Hibs aim to max out the Spirit resist not the cold. Yes they do have natural cold resist but nowhere near the 40%+ they get with items and buffs purely so they can resist mezz. Also you mentioned the air DD, yes it is a fine nuke but to get the best one you have to neglect the other lines, again the resists on the air/spirit nukes usually end up being huge in RvR because they want mezz resist. That drops the Air DD damage by huge amounts. Many of the orginal US beta testers on the Thuergist forums advise people to not fully spec Air anymore as it is a false economy in terms of damage.

Sadly Mythic also gimped our AE mezz a few patches back by moving the entire Air line of spells into the spirit line of damage Whilst spirit damage helps hugely fighting undead mobs it made our mezz almost redundant as other classes can do it more effectively than us which is a shame Mythic see our class as a utility class, that means average or below effectiveness in all our spell lines We get an insta haste debuff next patch but that is only useful again for PvE and only good in RvR if you have PBT running. The siege bolt is a complete joke, I melee for more damage than that piece of shit spell. Frankly Thuergists are dying on the feet in RvR and future patches don't look like they help us at all

 

[cHodAX]

Oh almost forgot, using the correct focus level staffs

Baseline Ice DD = 33 power units per cast = 2.6 sec casting time
Air Line DD = 29 power units per cast = 2.8sec casting time

Not a big difference although the air line does more damage unless hugely resisted. The Ice Line DD is still broke at the moment as the snare doesn't work properly, that gets addressed in 1.53 and then that will be a great DD as the snare timer is about 60secs, maybe more although the 3sec casting time hurts unless your dex is capped and and you have dex buffs so you can cast at the 2sec max speed.

 

[Jenkz]

please.....

spirit resist does not effect CCs duration (apart from cleric PBAE mez and air theurgiest AE mez - hardly the major mez' in alb).

45 air 26 earth, rest ice is an excellent theurgist spec.

you are basically a single target nuking wizard, with PBT, gimpy AE mez, runbuff, ~30sec AE root..

cold is a MUCH more common resist type (cold, heat, energy, body are the 4 most common damage types out there).

air pets arnt much to talk about. in PvE they are just for stuns, which help a LOT for nuking (summon 2/3 pets for chain stun, then chain nuke = dead red even at level 49!!, for a LOT less power than summoning 5-8 earth pets to kill a red @ 49).

power wise air is far superior in PvE and RvR. spamming 5 earth pets eats mana - i'd much rather be able to drop a target in 3 to 6 nukes which cast 2 times faster and use 1/5th the mana as pets. theurgist pets tbh in RvR are just walking marshmellows that are nothing more than a laughable distraction - which tbh, by the time you have gotten 6 pets off you are half mana and dead.

i play with an air theurg, i have leveled with one, and tbh it pisses me off the number of people who say it is gimped. it is FAR from gimp. the highest theurgist RP wise is an air theurgist- that is also the case in the US.

45 Air rest earth for great single target nukes with good utility for RvR. It's mez is not worth much due to its crap range (not due to spirit damage) its great in keep defence when they are charging for the lord, and as a backup CC, but tbh if you want to crowd control play a mind sorceror. Lots of mobs are weak to spirit, making air IMHO superior to the other viable spec:

41 ice 35 earth for good/average RvR nukes, and good PvE groupability - but taking this line over air based on PvE really isnt worth it. 10sec pbt is good enough for groups, and epic mobs. you also only get the ~140ish snare DD at 41spec ice. this is hardly a "great" nuke compared to a 210 base damage air nuke on a BETTER damage table than cold.

both specs (45a/26e or 41i/35e) are viable, both have advantages and both work extremely well. making out air is "gimped" or nerfed is coming from someone who simply has NOT played a 45 air spec theurigst - and believes VN board myth and legend that spirit resist has something to do with ALL mez durations!! - Please find me the patch notes!!

 

[old.Hamish]

Aye Jenkz I agree as I wrote earlier cold can be easily maxed out without even trying. It is a total misconception that people have their spirit resists maxed out to resist mezz as all the other mezz classes have had them moved to a different resist line. So that only leaves us the theurg and the cleric left on the spirt line (after patch I think) and as we arent primary mezzers it is actually a small help to us. Air is a very good line for the nuke but the other two spells being the pet and mezz need work from Mythic.

The snare I think will get a fix in 1.53 but its still a pathetic snare at 35% ? speed reduction which is crap compared with the snares of the hibs for instance and as I said before, most people use the baseline Ice nuke because unless you are full Ice, you will do more damage with the base than a lower level spec line nuke.

What I do agree with Chodax is that Theurgs are dying RvR wise because of our poor mezz range and almost useless pets (class defining spell). Theurgs are excellent in PvE so any changes to Theurgs in RvR might make us more powerful in PvE so Mythic has always resisted to even look at Theurgs in RvR.

Armatage

 

[Chole]

All I can say is dont go down the path I went, and thats Earth to 46 (or whatever last spell is at in earth)

Apart from the 6sec PBT (only any use if you can get in a grp anyhow) earth Theurs have pretty little to cheer about

From what I see youd be best to main in Air or Ice, with earth as your secondry, Sure Earth pets might last the longest, and hit hard, but in RvR all that will happen is there get Mezd before they reach there targets (and if you on your own, well your be dead from some enemy before to long)

Good luck however u spec
(And is it true about the weap debuff becomeing Insta?)

Would make melee last a tad longer with 6sec pbt

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Jenkz
please.....

spirit resist does not effect CCs duration (apart from cleric PBAE mez and air theurgiest AE mez - hardly the major mez' in alb).

Find me a quote where I said resists effect duration of the mezz. Try cast an Air AE mezz now with all the resist buffs. 7 out of 10 times you will fail, I know because I have seen it night after night. Oh and I don't read the VN forums, I read the proper Theurgist forums where the team leader for our class posts. He resigned recently in disgust at what they have done to our class in the last 4-5 patches and thier total lack of will to have another look at our class.

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Chole
(And is it true about the weap debuff becomeing Insta?)

Would make melee last a tad longer with 6sec pbt

Yep it goes insta in either 1.51 or 1.52 which should help the earth spec people greatly as you will last alot longer in close combat and actually manage to get a mezz or root off.

Have a look at this page it gives a full rundown on our current spell list as of 1.52 BUT they actually dropped the effectiveness of the level 47 debuff from 33% to 19% which is another nerf for the poor Theurgy

 

[Jenkz]

Originally posted by old.cHodAX
Hmm, I think you will find the Mids and Hibs aim to max out the Spirit resist not the cold. Yes they do have natural cold resist but nowhere near the 40%+ they get with items and buffs purely so they can resist mezz.

spirit resist does not effects CC resists in anyway - apart from cleric PBAE mez, cleric stun, and air theurgist AE mez. as i said please find me the patch note that mentions spirit resist having ANYTHING to do with CC resists, duration or outright. it doesnt its a VNboard myth.

Try cast an Air AE mezz now with all the resist buffs. 7 out of 10 times you will fail, I know because I have seen it night after night.

to my knowledge outright resists are level, not spec based, but 70% complete resists on the theurg AE mez? this is nonsense. i play 45a/26e theurgist on prydwen, and the AE mez rarely if ever completely resists - infact its very useful in keep defence to spam when they are charging for the lord or through the doors.

i also VERY rarely, if ever, get -40% resists on my nukes, i hit tanks for 350 (-80ish) and casters for 500-600 (-80ish again). they will have capped 20-26% spirit as well as capped 20-26% all other resists, but chants? well ask a mid or hib, they serve little purpose apart from reducing the effect of smiters - theres two or three 45 air theurgists afaik on prydwen, hardly a major threat to midgard.

theres an ice wizard in our guild, and he is constantly whigning about his awful resists against midgards.

my original post was nothing to do with resists really, it was bsaically countering your "air is nerfed, air is gimped" misinformation post - which you could only ever post if you had never played a level 50 air theurgist......

dont roll an air theurgist for its AE mez, roll one for its 45 spec 210 base ~2sec with nice cleric buffs 629 dmg cap (which yes it does hit in rvr, quite often) on a NICE dmg table (spirit isnt as common as you make out).

as for the original post and as not to go offtopic and turn this into a spirit resist debate. there are TWO very very viable theurgists specs, amongst others:

"wizard" with utility: 45 air, 26 earth.
bubble with nukes: 41 ice, 35 earth.

the latter is great for groups (nice CC, nice PBT). the former is great for solo (good damage against a lot of albion mobs) and is good for groups too (nice nukes, nice PBT).

RvR wise im sorry but the air line is superiour then floating marshmellow men which get mezzed and instakilled by confusion. Btw how often do you manage to get 5 earth pets off before you are dead or out of power? Ice pets are quite nice, air pets are a stun for your nukes nothing more, and earth pets are nice for some door and lord bashing while buffed up.

 

[sru]

Using Earth pets

Just a little hint, cast your damage add buff on the 2nd earth pet you send in.

It will maintain aggro and ensure, no matter how many more you send, it does not come storming to you when the first pet dies.

If you earthen buff pets, a single earth will take down green con, 2 = blue con, 3 = yellow con (usually)

 

[darbey]

Thanks for a ll the feedback. Just to update you just hit level 18 in around 15 hours played and must say im very pleased with the air line i went. Im thinking of taking air to 24 for some bg fun then switching to earth till i get 26 then back to air. The nukes are awesome and as someone said i can nuke an orange undead mob down in 4 with no pets. Damage wise ive found the pets weak but against orange the stuns stick and i can comfortably nuke them down as they r stunned.
Thanks again.

 

[pbuck]

About Pets:
Earth pets are the strongest,have the most hps last longer and three of them can finish a yellow mob most of the times depending also on the hps of the mob.5-6 of them can kill a low orange mob or almost kill it so u can finsih it off with nukes.In rvr pets have a specific use.At most times they are useless but there are some situations in which ive found them useful.
In small encounters which are rare but do occur earth theurgists stand a good chance vs almost any opponent including stealthers if they fail the pa.The idea vs mid tanks hib tanks is to quickcast root at them which might not work at all times but has a good chance then cast pbt send 2-3 earth pets in and melee with buffs.Also if u have a staff with nuke charge which i assume at 50 lvl u do, after u send the pets and before u melee u can use a charge which will deal about 300 dmg.
Earth pets are best used as a distraction especially in small battles.Even if they wont deal damage they force the enemy to lose time mezzing them or running away or even healing the person being attacked.Meanwhile there is a smaller chance the enemy will notice other forms of attack like a sorcerer trying to mezz or an archer shotting arrows.
Earth pets do suck rp wise.To get the most rp u have to nuke and not use pets.
Ice pets cast a snaring nuke so probably they may be useful in a situation where u want ur enemies slowed down eg when they are targetting you or they are running away.Ice pets are probably used best by ice theurgists(only one full ice theurgist ive seen so far in rvr though)
Air pets are useful too in rvr(although not in large scale battles) and pve.The idea is to send 2-3 air pets to an enemy then nuke him to death.If he is a caster he will have trouble nuking you(he can only nuke with quickcast or he will be interrupted),and if a tank he will be slowed down because of chain stuns(although stuns are tuned down next patch but they are very powerful now)
About speccing and rvr.In my opinion there isnt a build that beats the other.What is most important is to utilize your spec the best way u can.Use every advantage ur spec gives u in the best way.
Air theurgists make the best nukers and thats why they are the most popular in rvr.Popular doesnt mean the best.
Advantages of air theurgist is:Best nukes,stunning pets aoe mezz
and their disadvantage their weak blade turn But that isnt shown so much now since there are so few hunters and rangers about.
Advantages of Ice theurgist(full spec).Good nukes 50+11 ice (at least) makes up for the relatively modest 179DD ice spec that also can slow enemies and useful at times cc.(73 second aoe root)
Advantage of earth theurgist(with 35 or 45 earth and rest in ice):they are the hardest to kill but with the most modest of nukes(with 29+11+3 ice i still do 250 to most resisting mid tanks and close to 4350 dmg on mid casters but to hibernian tanks i do 300+ dmg and more on casters)
Why be earth theurgist then?The idea is that although ull do 70-100 less dmg than an air theurgist u will live longer enough to cast a few more nukes thus make up for the slightly weaker nuke plus other party members especially tanks will live longer and deal more damage.You will also have the best earth buffs.
Earth and ice theurgists arent as popular as wind theurgist though but that doesnt make then any less inferior in rvr.
Pbuck the white theu

 

[Jenkz]

i know of very few air theurgists on prydwen.... most seem to be earth, or earth/ice. very few "full" ice or "full" air. i wouldnt say air is, at least on prydwen, a popular spec for theurgists - if anything it is put down by quite a lot of people, other theurgs included.

on the US servers there are a lot lot more, due to the respec they recieved in 1.52.

yes an air theurg will only recieve a 10sec pbt, compared to 8 or 6, but in open scale emain style rvr a 8 PBT wont really save your life much more than a 10 sec (archer fire rates are a lot faster than 8sec). best bet is to spam self bladeturn really if you're in trouble.

i wont judge what you say you nuke for, i dont have an ice elementalist, all i can give you is the damage cap figures. 540ish without RAs for the 50th ice one, and 629 for the 45th air. with nice buffs the air nuke is as fast as the ice nuke, so no real difference in casting speed. the benefit imo is that cold is a "big 4" (heat, cold, energy, body) damage type where the majority of nuke and CC spells lie., where as spirit (air nukes) is not as popular - at least in %age of spells with that damage type.

benefit of a single target nuking class to a pet or bolt class is it is does not have to be on the front lines, and it doesnt make itself a target with marshmellow men or big bolts of fire. they can stand behind the main casters, or tanks, and wait for a charge, find a nice place to hide and nuke away - doing this keeps you alive a LOT longer.

 

[pbuck]

Most 50 lvl theurgists ive asked WILL respec to 45 air/26 earth in 1.52 so in my opinion the nuke theurgist makes for a popular rvr build.
6 second pbt is godly in rvr while 10 second pbt blows in comparison.If i ever respecced to air im not even sure id use a crap 10 sec pbt i would keep my points at 18 earth for group bt than spend them on a blade turn that would pulse after i was dead.
Ice is not that crap since hibs have mostly bad resists vs ice and mid casters and stealthers suffer a decent amount of dmg from ice nukes.Wont compare it to air resists cause i have no idea if mids or hibs have capped resists to air(they might do tho)
Pets and bolts have a greater ranger than single dd nukes(1875 than 1500) therefore they are safer to use at times and make a good alternative to nuking.The advantage of dd nuking to using bolts or pets is obviously not range..
pbuck the white theu