The Trouble with Skalds

[Henry-Vee]

I never thought I’d say this but my Skald is no where near as much fun as he used to be :-/

I made up Henryvee on the day the Prydwen server opened. I identified strongly with him from the start, and just loved that speed song!

PvE groups were easy enough to get into. Soloing wasn’t too bad, and you were rarely short of a group in RvR. Hell in the good old days you could even make a Cruachan Gorge run and do some cheeky grey ganking on your own.

And then some whine threads appeared on IGN vault complaining that Skalds were way underpowered, and needed some loving fast. But I was still having fun so, what did they know? And Americans whine all the time right??

And then I reached 50 and got my epic armour. Ah well I might look a ponce, but at least the armour would make me really powerful right? Oh…wait a minute the armour is pretty naff…

And then more regular RvR came along. The spears stung, the arrows scratched, and the assorted nukes, nuked pretty badly. I know! I’ll increase my resists. So a master piece sword, and a few odds and ends later a new improved and harder Skald appeared on the battlefield, and don’t get me wrong this made a nice difference, but it was hardly night and day.

With the exception of guild groups, it wasn’t always easy to get 1. Sure if they didn’t have a Skald or knew me, then no problem, but 2 Skalds in a group? Hmmm not a powerful combination there I think.

And in fights I kept on having to work out what my roll was apart from taxi……Protect the casters? Hmm throw myself in the way of the armsman, who will kill me in 3 or 4 hits more like!!

Anyway….Mythic would send us some loving right??

I took my alt, a level 24 Bonedancer called Number Six to Thidranki last night, and the difference was night and day. In comparison this lil guy was a god of war. I was sympathetic when during a siege, Toecrusher (a Skald in my group) said, ‘I feel useless’, whilst I ran about like mad gleefuly life tapping Albs, and earning us a heathy amount of realm points.

So Skalds get rarer and rarer it seems. And it’s a shame. I read an interesting thread on ideal RvR groups recently. Virtually every group had a Skald in it. Take away a Skalds speed, and every group without exception wouldn’t :-/

Sorry if this seems a bit of a pointless whine, but I have spent more time than most playing a Skald, and I guess after investing SO MANY /played days in this toon, to only realise I’ve been very slow in the uptake and do what everyone else who ever played a Skald before did, and that was to roll another character, I feel a bit annoyed.

Tis sad

Henryvee

Lvl50 Skald

White General of White Rose

 

[dyna_mite]

Come on Henry, it isn't that bad! All chars have strengths and weaknesses but post L50 the game is all about RvR and is group orientated. Solo, skalds are gimps, but imo a group without a skald is like a hand without a thumb.

 

[Xavier]

is that THE famous Dyna Mite of the north? lol

 

[Ottar]

> I made up Henryvee on the day the Prydwen server opened.

So did I with mine.. Ottar is now for all practical purposes, retired. Rolled a savage and loving it. As someone said in /gu yesterday, I wish there was /transferrealmpoints command.

Ottar

 

[Cathul]

Originally posted by dyna_mite
Come on Henry, it isn't that bad! All chars have strengths and weaknesses but post L50 the game is all about RvR and is group orientated. Solo, skalds are gimps, but imo a group without a skald is like a hand without a thumb.

Ok, then tell me what's a skald good for in a group except for speed?

We do less damage than a warrior, cannot protect anyone in a group, skald's dmg-add is pathetic with it's very low range of only 700 units, we have very low hitpoints.

Except for speed there is no benefit of taking a skald in a group instead of any other melee char in Midgard.

/Cathul

 

[Aerran Darktyde]

I assume they will bring skalds spells etc into line with other classes
like increase Damage add to the 1500 paladins get.. and either increasing the range or lowering the retimer on DDs.. and maye upping out mezz duration

i expect dodger RA and dodge 2 as per bards and minstrels..

as for other stuff who knows..
they need to define if we are a combat or support class at the moment we are not very good at either

 

[king_kettil]

Kettil have been on my shelf for a long time, but the otherweek i got a respec stone and voila! on 3 days iv'e gotten 40k RP's ( most because of the share fun of playing him again) I had forgotten how effective the instant mez is ( and you say we can't protect anyone?) and the dmg output is more then a warriors if you count in the DD's. and how i love to snare little assisns or mages trying to getaway =)

however the HP is a huge problem, and Evade 2 would only be fair. as well as increasing range on chants and by all gods give us 3 resists in one chant like pallys!

about more then one skald in a group.. this morning i joined a gorup in emain... 4 skalds (!) 1 healer 2 zerkers ( i think) and a thane. we had some great 1fg vs 1fg fights with albs wich looke dlike " Zap 4 mezzed albs, 4 very confused albs and wham! 8 very dead albs" I must say that the healer ( Func) did a very good job keeping us skalds a live with his healing and the zerkers helping us kill a bit quicker

besides the mezzing, we also could have Body, Energy and Spirit resist chants up ( wich stacks with healer/shaman resist buffs) wich made me atleast have bear 50% resist in those three mentioned.

there are good times and bad times in Daoc. play another char a while, if you find it more apealing, keep playing it, but chck in on your skald once in a while and see if maybe, just mabe it's fun again

 

[zapzap]

Originally posted by king_kettil
Kettil have been on my shelf for a long time, but the otherweek i got a respec stone and voila! on 3 days iv'e gotten 40k RP's ( most because of the share fun of playing him again) I had forgotten how effective the instant mez is ( and you say we can't protect anyone?) and the dmg output is more then a warriors if you count in the DD's. and how i love to snare little assisns or mages trying to getaway =)

however the HP is a huge problem, and Evade 2 would only be fair. as well as increasing range on chants and by all gods give us 3 resists in one chant like pallys!

about more then one skald in a group.. this morning i joined a gorup in emain... 4 skalds (!) 1 healer 2 zerkers ( i think) and a thane. we had some great 1fg vs 1fg fights with albs wich looke dlike " Zap 4 mezzed albs, 4 very confused albs and wham! 8 very dead albs" I must say that the healer ( Func) did a very good job keeping us skalds a live with his healing and the zerkers helping us kill a bit quicker

besides the mezzing, we also could have Body, Energy and Spirit resist chants up ( wich stacks with healer/shaman resist buffs) wich made me atleast have bear 50% resist in those three mentioned.

there are good times and bad times in Daoc. play another char a while, if you find it more apealing, keep playing it, but chck in on your skald once in a while and see if maybe, just mabe it's fun again

From what I know resist buffs does not stack. If it does I will be looking with my 1 eye very evuuuul at my fellow skalds.

say 54 body with aughealer + skald resist and determination mess would be np for tanks. We are not hibs therefor it does not stack


The healer with 1 eye

 

[eynar]

True Zap, they don't stack. Or didn't when I still played my skald at least. The resist chants are a joke in general anyway, cuz they can only be used in a group with more than one skald. And when you are in a group with multiple skalds you might as well simply log and play something else or watch tv

 

[midmaster]

It's worse even. It does not stack, it in fact overwrites any other resist that is running (shammys, healres) regardless if it's better or not. It's a bug, and not uncommon when it comes to the Skald.

Seems like skalds are being framed by Mythic :/

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Originally posted by king_kettil
and the dmg output is more then a warriors if you count in the DD's. and how i love to snare little assisns or mages trying to getaway =)

hehehe you must have been up against some low body resist albs

both DDs normally hit for a total of 200-250 max.. and on a 30 second retimer = no where near enough to get anywhere near a warriors damage output... sadly..

drop the retimer to 15seconds like minstrells then maybe getting closer but still not that close..

and as for mezz..28second duration which is less than the healers AE insta... yes i know skalds can recast it after 30secs but the skald is probably dead by then but with determination, high resists and purge in equation its only real use is a yet another interupt..

With the bugs fixed and the spell inline with the other realms skalds will more playable, a RA that actually was some use would be nice though

 

[Litmus]

Re: Re: The Trouble with Skalds

Originally posted by Ottar
>
As someone said in /gu yesterday, I wish there was /transferrealmpoints command.

Ottar

I think this command would also be useful when it comes to my skald /respecclass

 

[Genius-Ino]

Nothing wrong with skalds imo.
If I started to say warriors/thanes/hunters/savages/runies/... are bad and I had a lot of followers on barryswhine...
then you'd see a lot of people suddenly saying omg <insert class> are so nerfed etc.
Skald might need an improve yes, but I love playing mine as it is to be honest.

 

[king_kettil]

perhaps it doesn't stack ( the resist songs that is ) my bad. but however it worked well having them up since we lacked a shaman/ high aug healer.

and about dmg output, i don't know why you think warriors make more dmg then us, the warriors iv'e duelled hit for as much as I do but don't have that extra DD's, however ofc we loose to a warrior, they got more HP, spec shield ( with slam ) but we are supposed to loose against main tanks.

something is worrying me though, imo Skalds should be able to beat:

Mincers
Assasins ( unless a succesfull PA lands)
Archers ( unless they get off 2-3 arrows first)
Healing classes
Semi-healers
Casters

but it seems like we have trouble killing all of theese except pure casters theese days.

got in a 1v1 with a mincer and it was Even.. the Mincer is the child of mythic and mythic Loves it soo much it seems to give it all they whine for =/

It's a rouge clas dammit! remove chain ( how the hell do you sneak in chain?) and why oh why can a ministrel even come close to a skalds dmg output ? we got 2 handers *laughs* ( hey mythic when do we get more then 15% add for that?) but ok there are flaws with skalds, but not so big ones.

Skalds however are definetly not a Solo class, you need a group to back you up... or rather to back up. be there with your mez, your snare, your dmg add and your 2hander as support dmg..
and about speed.. speed is one of the most important things to have in RvR. it gives you " micro management" to swiftly get around or flank enemies.

Anyway i wouldn't complain if our range on our songs were increased, or DD timers set to 15 secs or if we got ablative song like Mythics crybabies.

but I must say i like the class for it's play style. you can't just enter a fight and stick n' style, you must be ready to snare and move out of combat if low on hp, mez someone , runaway ( make them think you flee) to comeback and whack someone from behind, move again etc.

BUT I know all about the feeling ( man this class sucks )
and this one: Nooooooooo! ( nerfing LA whe i got a Shadowzerk)

 

[Cami]

Originally posted by king_kettil
Assasins ( unless a succesfull PA lands)

It is possible to kill an assasin, even when successfull pa is landed, my bro have a 50 skald, and he manages to mezz me in between pa/cd when i land one of those when we duel

Besides, ive seen a skald take out a warrior in duels aswell, actually think ive seen a screenshot of the fight somewhere, he kited him tho, but only to get the dd's back so he could do more damage.

Anyway, i agree, skalds are gimped atm, but they arent useless, they have speed and those dds and the 2hander are evul to other supportclasses

 

[Jeron]

Originally posted by Kerram Darktyde
both DDs normally hit for a total of 200-250 max.. and on a 30 second retimer = no where near enough to get anywhere near a warriors damage output... sadly..

Skald DDs aren't on a 30 sec timer FYI

 

[mid_Efour]

skalds kill my warrior 99% of all fights just Kite/snare you cannot win.

skalds and paladins not on same HP table?

should make them very similar imho

 

[Wij]

Pally = 2x spec points + shield spec = ub3r defense.

Skald cannot beat Pally without Kiting for 5 minutes mostly. Fine for duels but in proper RvR Pally == winn0r ! Pally has better combat and better support. Skald has... Taxi chant.

:/

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Skalds are not total pap.. but they are not a good class either.. if they did not have speed would anyone play them??

and the only 1v1 combat you get is vs archer or assassin and you are pretty much dead if they are same RR or greater than you... or if you are lucky you can getaway from them....

duels are not a good gauge of a classes str or weakness as a you dont fight your own realm in RvR and you know the fight is going to happen and so are ready for it have best QB up for opponent etc..

Only time will tell as to what Mythic do or dont do to skalds...

 

[id_pundit]

When I said I felt useless, I meant that I couldn't really do much in the keep defense - well, until I jumped out the back, ran the long way round to our pk, loaded up with wood, sprinted back in, and started repairing the doors that is; but that's hardly a skald-specific attribute

On the other hand, when I was outside I was able to run around quite happily, stealthing my sleek Troll shape through the trees, before dropping at speed onto hapless assassins, or having a great chase with a bard called Karlkow. I caught her in the end, but just gave her a hug and left - got a bow from her, and a slap from someone else - heh.

I'm enjoying the skald a lot more than my hunter, although I may take him to Caledonia tonight if people are actually going to be there. I'll be easy to spot, as I don't have any stealth

The lack of hit points is an issue, but I'm not sure they'll ever address that, and it would be nice if 75% of my spells weren't targetted in the body area alone. That's just silly.

The speed is like a drug though - makes it really hard to play other classes. I'm fortunate in having a great guild, so I know that when I hit the high levels I'll probably have no trouble getting a group, and as my group will consist of the best players in Midgard it should all be very enjoyable.

 

[Ottar]

> the warriors iv'e duelled hit for as much as I do but don't have that extra DD's

The warriors you duel hit you for same damage with 1h weapon. You are using a 2h, meaning he will hit you for same damage 1/3 as often. You can kill warriors in duels with some luck - snares and mezzes sticking, you cant kite in real RvR.

> you must be ready to snare and move out of combat if low on hp

Snare is on 30s timer. That means in a typical fight you use snare once or twice depending on if you won the fight or not. 1st snare goes to interrupt the caster you went for. 2nd snare, if youre winning the fight, goes for catching a runner. Only 1st of those snares are somewhat essential to actually win the fight and it doesnt have to be a snare, just any interrupting insta spell with range. Thats why I have taunt shout on the 1st keyslot on my 1st qbar of my savage.

Moving out of combat when low hp and all other sorts of fancy maneuvers work well if you actually have hp and defences to survive them to succeed and that's where skald is lacking the worst - defence and survivability. HP isnt all that important even. Ottar as a dorf skald with toughness II has around 1950 hp with full buffs. Now, my savage doesnt have all -that- much more, just a couple of hundred hp's.. but these hp's get magnified by evades, they last -alot- longer and that with studded armor being vulnerable to slash (which is more than negated by melee resist buffs).

The talk about skald being support is bollocks. A year ago, skalds were light tanks. I cant see any amount of realistic mucking around with battlesongs making skalds into support suddenly. Support means you do yer best to stay out of harms way so you survive to actually provide the support and thats what low defence skalds wont be able to do.

In fact, there's a rumor around some bloke from Mythic told Roseanne skalds are supposed to be melee hybrids. So what sort of hybrids are we? Offensive or defensive ones? Defensive hybrid would mean 2x spec, speccable shield and at least 1 effective in-combat group chant. They going to try that, I foresee much noise from the thane quarters. Offensive hybrid would mean self-haste shout and -substantially- increased evades, access to doger and range upgrade to the dmg add chant. Now that would fit much better to the way skalds originally worked. A weak 2h savage with expensive RA's and speed. I seriously doubt tho they have guts to pump the defence up to a degree it actually needs to be bumped for this to work.

Ottar

 

[dyna_mite]

I can't understand why anyone would want to compare skald melee ability with a warrior - or any other tank for that matter. A warrior is supposed to be THE mid tank so if skalds could beat them consistently then I would say there is something seriously wrong. I have accepted that skalds simply don't solo that well (well I don't anyway).

I also can't understand why someone would say the skalds only use in a group is speed? Well if all you do is switch on speed and stick then fine. If that was all there was to it then no-one would play the char. RvR for a skald is skilfull, busy and exciting.

IMO the skald should be the equal of the minstrel, which is supposed to be the equivalent alb class. Some time ago I felt we were a match, but we are totally inferior now.

 

[opoc]

Skalds aren't too bad done by IMO, its the other mid classes that are really overpowered which makes them look bad. Actually skalds are better than alot of other alb/hib classes at most times. Evenw ith speed its nice to see that skalds dont *allways* mezz and run off like wussie minstrels do....

 

[Damon_D]

yeah we all overpowered and should be flogged for saying the skald is bad.. and chanters are even worse than skalds right ???

 

[opoc]

Erm mid is way over powered as all 3 of their casters are best in the game along side the albion ones. They have most of the best melee classes and also the best archer. Now what can you say needs loving in mid? Honestly.

PS. I did make some long post with lots of stuff saying why you mids should be nerfed...but i pressed wrong button and it went back and got deleted and i couldn't be bothered to write it again

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Originally posted by opoc
Erm mid is way over powered as all 3 of their casters are best in the game along side the albion ones. They have most of the best melee classes and also the best archer. Now what can you say needs loving in mid? Honestly.

PS. I did make some long post with lots of stuff saying why you mids should be nerfed...but i pressed wrong button and it went back and got deleted and i couldn't be bothered to write it again

Troll!!

 

[opoc]

Originally posted by Kerram Darktyde
Troll!!

Oh well yeah ok you got one, ONE!! valid point....maybe you need a new female troll skin

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Do you actually play DAoC?

having baseline stun on your mages must be such a burden

and as for StT or BoAD dam they must be so unused Espiecially as Mid has not pet classes...

you are either a Troll or an uninformed Moron.. your choice


(man i am so bored i am replying to lost causes on BW, somebody shoot me )

 

[opoc]

Originally posted by Kerram Darktyde
Do you actually play DAoC?

having baseline stun on your mages must be such a burden

and as for StT or BoAD dam they must be so unused Espiecially as Mid has not pet classes...

you are either a Troll or an uninformed Moron.. your choice


(man i am so bored i am replying to lost causes on BW, somebody shoot me )

Yes I play daoc and sorry no I'm not a moron, do you even play hib to know what there is there?

1. About 3 chanters in hib have BoAD
2. About 2 Mentalists in hib have StT
3. Baseline stun does stun for about 3 seconds now with the resists unless heat debuff prior to casting stun.

StT was never used before BDs too.

So you know jack and like to think you know it, so....i could write that "i 0wned j00" crap or some insult like you but i won't lower myself to such a level that I have a vocabulary of a 3 year old. Have a nice day

 

[Jenna.]

Originally posted by opoc
Erm mid is way over powered as all 3 of their casters are best in the game along side the albion ones. They have most of the best melee classes and also the best archer. Now what can you say needs loving in mid? Honestly.

PS. I did make some long post with lots of stuff saying why you mids should be nerfed...but i pressed wrong button and it went back and got deleted and i couldn't be bothered to write it again

You're kidding right?