The Stealth-Zerg Mentality (Read b4 you post plz)

[Chronictank]

I personally never quite understood the mentality behind a stealthzerg, since it is a very general term i will narrow it down to 9 people+. Stealthzergs have been around ever since release, be it larger now they have always been there. Why do people do it? this isnt a flame, bait or whatever i am genuinly interested in the psyche behind it. I have rolled various stealthers and chars most of which dont get past the bg's admittidly, but i have never found any pleasure in killing people who dont have a chance in hell of winning, but thats just me.

Back on topic, why do people go through all the effort to tweak their characters to the max, get a buffbot with +25% to get maximum out of it, go through all the ML's just to make sure you have all the tools you would want. Just to join up with another 10 stealthers and kill a soloer who obviously doesnt have a chance against you.
I thought about it for a while and maybe its just for the rp's to get their realm ranks, so they can compete with those higher up in the picking order. But when they finally get to a rvr standard they find they are unable to as they are not used to the 1 on 1 situation, so result in zerging once again.
Perhaps people genuinly enjoy zerging, running round with fellow realm mates in a Churchill style mass ftw attitude.
So i put it to those who regularly run in a stealth-zerg why do so?

keep it constructive, dont flame those who post honest answers plz.
This isnt a ego booster where you can declare you claim you never zerg, cus tbh noone really cares so dont make a fool of yourself

Flaming to the minimum etc.. Dicuss

 

[Darzil]

Well, if you're going to go through all the ML and artifact gathering in order to feel competitive, then you'll want to get some RR's before you start going solo, I'd guess. Certainly in 1 vs 1, RR makes a bigger difference than ML's.

Not that I have a stealther, though.

Darzil

 

[Jobil]

I never understood it either, i was in deadly shadows in albion for a short while, a guild thats notorious for starting stealth zergs on prydwen (utter bollocks, but lets leave that for another post). it was boring as hell. admittedly i play an infil so am probably at the top of the foodchain in the stealth war, but i take no pleasure in ganging up on other stealthers, a high rr shade might have a chance against 1+ well played infil, but any semi competent infil can rip apart without sustaining a scratch against an evenly tweaked, rr etc SB.
i guess its the childish thing about losing a fight, having your death spam on public display that what makes ppl gang up. ofc some duos/trios etc exist between friends, be that in-game or rl and those are ok in my eyes, but the aldoran 10fg+ stealthers, thats the root of the problem, you need a zerg yourself to counter something like that. some do, others leave their infils/shades/sbs and roll archers (me) and stand on a tower all day showering zergs in volley.
actually this came off as a bit of a flame, i cba to edit, rephraze and such, so just take my word for it, no flames intended

 

[Red HATred]

1) ppl are tired of /y lfg
2) stealth gives the player the chance when combat starts (control)
3) zerg just forms when 5+ off these peeps meet each other
4) some ppl are tired of groupig up with grey cons, blue cons, green cons in top rvr... since ppl are friendly they just don't bother to try and look for a decent balanced group (takes ages to get something going), thus they pick a solo char, stealther
5) if you have an active population off 300 ppl... a 5% is playing a stealther... it is verry likely to encounter those on the action-spots


conclusion: stealther = logg in.. buff up..hunt... logg out...
during that time period you meet fellow hunters...groups form = stealth zerg

 

[Chronictank]

1) ppl are tired of /y lfg
2) stealth gives the player the chance when combat starts (control)
3) zerg just forms when 5+ off these peeps meet each other
4) some ppl are tired of groupig up with grey cons, blue cons, green cons in top rvr... since ppl are friendly they just don't bother to try and look for a decent balanced group (takes ages to get something going), thus they pick a solo char, stealther
5) if you have an active population off 300 ppl... a 5% is playing a stealther... it is verry likely to encounter those on the action-spots


conclusion: stealther = logg in.. buff up..hunt... logg out...
during that time period you meet fellow hunters...groups form = stealth zerg

read post plz then answer
im asking why stealthers zerg not why they chose a stealther
Summary of the above:
3) zerg just forms when 5+ off these peeps meet each other
5) if you have an active population off 300 ppl... a 5% is playing a stealther... it is verry likely to encounter those on the action-spots

 

[Red HATred]

read post plz then answer
im asking why stealthers zerg not why they chose a stealther
Summary of the above:
3) zerg just forms when 5+ off these peeps meet each other
5) if you have an active population off 300 ppl... a 5% is playing a stealther... it is verry likely to encounter those on the action-spots

one thing comes from another....

the reason why they picked one has the stealthzerg as consequence.

cause and effect

name one other type off group where those stealthers can group into?



it just happens
nothing one can change about it...

equal minded ppl... look for each other.. group up...
exiles unite

 

[Outlander]

Why are stealthers expected to always play solo anyway? And I know for a fact that there are many stealth zergs that jump fgs or groups larger than themselves for a decent fight, its not just ganking poor ppl running alone. I do prefer solo myself though anyways mucho fun Until I get ganked by stealth zerg myself Think the zerg does usually just form ove rtime when stealthers run into each other at popular spots, well thats my experience anyway. I dont know too many that go lfg just to get a gank squad up but admittedly there are some that will go out together just for that purpose of ganking everything and anything Dunno why ppl do either/or and dont really feel the need to know personally

 

[Dukat]

'Stealth zergs' generally happen because alot of stealthers think in similar ways, eg. where to hunt.

This is why you sometimes find alot of stealthers on bridges, if there is a big fight going on, stealthers tend to converge on the area the enemy must move through to re-enforce, bridges are 'choke-points' where there the number of enemies moving through the area is higher than the areas around it.

The docks are the same, the chance of encountering the enemy is higher here, and so stealthers who are 'looking for a fight' will head to areas like the docks, areas where the enemy is very likely to either be in or move through.

Very rarely are there more than 4 stealthers in a group together, due to the fact that numbers higher than 4 are near impossible to control effectively and you end up spending more time setting ground targets for lost grp members than actually killing stuff.

Atleast thats how I see it.

 

[Zebolt]

Actually I think ppl may think like this.. at least this is how I think.

When I play with my RM I play an a RvR grp and I hate to zerg it's boring, I'm good with my class and therefore I do like fg or solo.

When I play my hunter who only wear pre ToA stuff and is rr3 and no ml's I like to zerg. I can't compete at all solo so zerging ain't too bad.

I think it's like this.. It's fun to kill enemies and if you can't do that solo or have a good fg that can kill other fg's you will enjoy the zerg more since then you actually get to kill enemies. I think that's all to it, everyone wants to kill enemies, even you :>

 

[Jayce]

Well some friends and myself have been levelling group characters for a FG for PvE and RvR so we can learn to play together, our classes etc etc and throughout our time in daoc we all have a stealther alt. When we get to days when all 8 of our group are not online we sometimes get our stealthers out and go play. Needless to say we all group together (none are 50 yet, 46-48), the most together so far has been 5.

Very rarely are there more than 4 stealthers in a group together, due to the fact that numbers higher than 4 are near impossible to control effectively and you end up spending more time setting ground targets for lost grp members than actually killing stuff.

This is true, especially when someone dies, releases then runs back to where the rest are, more people die in the mean time, or you get found and killed, or you get to solo someone on route etc = Split group all over the place.

But we still have fun, we've had are arses kicked all over the place and we've taken down a few in the process, its just fun really as none of us have a template for lvl 10 arti's (yet). The only thing we do have is the BB with +25% buffs, shame he cant fully buff 5 people ...

5 of us killing 1 guy isnt really fun, for him more then us I'm sure, but still isnt much fun for us. 5 of us killing similar number stealthers / people is pretty good but doesn't happen often. 5 of us killing a FG would be nice, still havent done that yet though, will keep trying. We also add onto keep defence, thats fun sometimes too.

Not sure what I'm trying to say, though I agree with the cause and effect comment. I always found it funny when people whined about zergs in OF, the game was new and there were few 50's = solo, duo, trio players. Further along more people get 50 = FG v FG then more and moe got 50's and the numbers vs the play space meant zergs were inevitable. Power levelling came along = even more people at 50, but now more and more stealthers as well as this means you dont have to solo through PvE = Stealth zergs etc etc etc

Cause and effect, this is the way things will go, there is nothing that can be done about it.

Learn, adapt, enjoy or ... well ... leave.

 

[Belomar]

[random BS]

Nightheart, the uber Scout has spoken! :worthy: Remember, archers, that you are there to support the ground troops! The key words are "PPS" for Patience - Position - Support! (Check this thread for reference.)

 

[Cruhar]

Why are stealthers expected to always play solo anyway? And I know for a fact that there are many stealth zergs that jump fgs or groups larger than themselves for a decent fight, its not just ganking poor ppl running alone.....

What he said...

You dont meet many solo targets either these days, therefor you need to bring more stealthers as you have to take down several targets.

If a FG opted gankgroup etc. meets a solo target they rarely let it live, so I dont see why a FG of stealthers should?

I usually solo or duo aswell, but being RR3 I really dont find many targets I can take down with a 100% chance of survival. So I usually hang around keeps or do the 'Hit n' Run' as a scout... (Shoot someone from a FG, kill him off or till people start healing him, then leg it) But an infiltrator cant do that as he needs to be within melee range, so he needs to team up with some friends so they are able to kill the entire FG.

But to sum it up, I think the reason you see larger and more often stealthzergs is that you more rarely find solo/Duo targets that your able to take down. As people are usually High RR or/and 3+ people in the group.
Also with the RAs, MLs and artifacts today many targets are alot harder than they used to be.

Take SMs as examble - Buffed to the teeth with pet and 1-3 brittleguards you need (as a scout, also buffed) someone to kill the SM while your distracting the pets/player, because of the RA named Mastery of concentration, the ever intercepting pets and Life tap.

Also the skill/knowlage of the avarage player has increased, stats tweaked, optimised spec etc. makes it harder to solo, especially as none-stealthers rarely move solo. Even casters move in pairs or bring along a BG-bot or smiliar. And with the damage/range casters dish out damage today, you cant really blame an infil for keeping away or not being solo as he would have to kill the BGbot first and in the meanwhile the caster is free to kill him

Give more solo targets and you will see more solo stealthers again im sure

 

[Dukat]

Nightheart, the uber Scout has spoken! :worthy: Remember, archers, that you are there to support the ground troops! The key words are "PPS" for Patience - Position - Support! (Check this thread for reference.)

omg lol, classic

When I play my hunter who only wear pre ToA stuff and is rr3 and no ml's I like to zerg. I can't compete at all solo so zerging ain't too bad.

It may well be true that people zerg because its fun to get kills, but I disagree that people cant compete.

I've seen lvl 30-40's in RvR, most of them dont have top level TOA stuff, but they still have fun and compete and get kills every now and again.

remember, PPS

 

[Haton]

united in their love for brynja bridge the stealthers of enemy realms and midgard line up to defend their most treasured camp spot.

imo

 

[Jaem-]

I'll answer your question with another... Why do visable chars group up also?

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those sort thats too stubbon to give up my solo ways, altho I duoed for the 1st time in ages with a good mid/pry friend on a mincer, had a blast altho there hardly any solo we had some fun together that evening, plan on grouping with him more in the future as having a duo partner enhanced my/our chances of making a kill vs the insane amount of adds and/or stealthzerg that happen.

Basicaly, grouping upps the chances of surival, some also see it as a way of rp farming, to gain a higher rr quicker.

 

[Yeke]

Nightheart, the uber Scout has spoken! :worthy: Remember, archers, that you are there to support the ground troops! The key words are "PPS" for Patience - Position - Support! (Check this thread for reference.)

LOL!! quality :>

Think most stealthers that stick with visable zergs are the ones that havnt spent the time to maximise there toon thus "PPS" archers (haha) can still be useful and not just get wtfpwned.

Stealthzergs are slightly different there are ofc the friends that play together a lot and then there are the people that simply have to win no matter what and so outnumber the opponent, personally I've hardly ever grouped with Ulukin (my SB) because I simply enjoy the stalking and 1 vs 1 fights more than f8 /stick hit things.

 

[Jeriraa]

I cant tell much about the motives of the groups of stealthers camping public routes such as bridges or docks since I hardly ever do it. (As for now I've been in a group of 6 hunters + a healer only once 'camping' a dock.)

The phenomenon of 1 person engaging another in a fight and having 4+ stealthers pop in the area is common. Usaly I am very surprised to see how many Mids, Albs, Hibs are around when I at first thought I was the only one.

The odd stealthzerg is a simple thing: You know where you can find prey (eg. docks, bridges) so you go there. You are not the only one that knows so you are likely to meet other people there. You group up for better coordination and more effective fighting.
Actually there's no problem with that. The problems start when one party starts to counter the opponent with numbers instead of leaving a place that is "too hot" for them. Then you end up with silly amounts of stealthers in one place.

 

[Tip]

Where does the mentality that stealthers must solo come from?
that is one persons view on how stealthers should be played, however for the more Sociable people this does not apply, myself and aim have probably grouped with many stealthers on Albion/prydwen apart from those who prefer the less sociable and solo route, and as a result we have gained many friends, in fact to the point there is a small group of those who we regularly group with getting together for a few beers and a night out.
For those who play solo i say get some friends! doac is much more fun when you interact with people instead of talking to yourself in your box room.
If you want to be a hermit thats your choice, if i want to be Sociable that is ours, people talk about playing your class well, how an earth can you do that solo, when a scouts job is support, and believe me a few assisting scouts can certainly turn the tide in a large scale battle.
As far as rp's are concerned its much more beneficial been solo, but that gets boring real fast, a little company beats rp's any day of the week.
Currently trying our hands at Sorcerer and Wizard (much work needed)

 

[Dafft]

I know I grp/zerg because Im tired of running around for say 1 hour solo having killed nothing then decide to move to places where there is a high chance of action ie bled bridge, waiting on the chance of fellow mid/hib solo'er to come along (Some ppl do tend to solo) then start fighting & all of a sudden a fg of hib/mids/albs or 2+ mid/hib/albs starting wading in left right & center killing the person Im fighting or killing me.

It really pisses me off.

So in order to have a decent fight I form a grp of stealthers (pointless having a non stealther in grp) & then the opposition does the same thing, gets more ppl, then I get more ppl to counter them & so a vicious circle forms

 

[Cracked]

Started solo, found a bunch of friends that is fun to play with. Some times im solo out there, but most often we are 2+. If it's call zerging, fine, i know i can solo good but i choose to play with my friends because it's more fun.

Also u almost never encounter 1 enemy, there is always a bunch more so often and it's a very nice fight anyways.

 

[Naffets]

I think the mentality behind it is the same as behind any "zergs". Safety in numbers, the more people you are with the less chance you stand of loosing/dieing.

Although its a bit lame and may remove the challenge from the game, and obviously it is quite annoying when you get zerged.

Personally i run in a duo more often than not due to a lot of stealthers that decide to run in a trio+ (this is not a flame but its usually albs (scout, minst, inf or scout, minst, scout) however ofc mids and hibs stealthzerg aswell)

As much as i'd like to blame other stealthers, i can't fully blame them. I'm still admitadly getting to grips with playing my class and so running in a duo is a lot safer/easier than running solo, although i have done successful runs and im proud to say i've taken Dwera down 1 on 1 :wub: He likes to say i only won due to strafe lag but nevermind


Essentially its a case of big numbers good

Edit : Hope this answers your question Chronic

Oh do you remember me btw?

 

[Ctuchik]

for me its not so much the number of stealthers as much as they ARE stealthers.. i mean, just the stealth gives a huge advantage on a non stealther. just 2 or 3 stealthers can do one hell of alot of damage to a visible FG just by the fact that they dont face the risk of being spotted. meaning they can target the healers first and kill them off (pretty safe) before going for the other players.

and for those that wonder where we got the idea that stealthers are only solo classes. look at most of the "assassin movies/books etc, and ul find out that they "work alone"

AND the fact that Mythic wont give them any group utility (exept mincers) kinda gives it away abit to.

and the reason they zerg? its easy, "everyone else does it so why not us"

and why shouldent they? 99% of the playerbase zergs every now and again. be it 2 fg or 10.



No flames intended.

 

[Jeriraa]

for me its not so much the number of stealthers as much as they ARE stealthers.. i mean, just the stealth gives a huge advantage on a non stealther. just 2 or 3 stealthers can do one hell of alot of damage to a visible FG just by the fact that they dont face the risk of being spotted. meaning they can target the healers first and kill them off (pretty safe) before going for the other players.

If you had played more often than you quit you'd know this is not true.

No flames intended.

 

[Dafft]

AND the fact that Mythic wont give them any group utility (exept mincers) kinda gives it away abit to.

lies!!!!

Scouts & infils got grp util

Can spec BM/Soj for scouts: BG & FZ & water breathing & scouts with guard 99% of scouts spec 42 shield so they have a high chance of blocking singlular hits plus high dex ( aug.dex2 was needed for MoB in OF - leading to train of thought process that you needed dex for blocking)

Infis BM/SPymaster: BG again & Grp stealth

 

[Castus]

If you cant beat em join is my theory Oh and it really pisses off StonyPony and CweepInfact scratch the 1st reason and just keep the second

 

[Ctuchik]

If you had played more often than you quit you'd know this is not true.

No flames intended.

i only quit playing my shaman tho.

 

[Chronictank]

I think the mentality behind it is the same as behind any "zergs". Safety in numbers, the more people you are with the less chance you stand of loosing/dieing.

Although its a bit lame and may remove the challenge from the game, and obviously it is quite annoying when you get zerged.

Personally i run in a duo more often than not due to a lot of stealthers that decide to run in a trio+ (this is not a flame but its usually albs (scout, minst, inf or scout, minst, scout) however ofc mids and hibs stealthzerg aswell)

As much as i'd like to blame other stealthers, i can't fully blame them. I'm still admitadly getting to grips with playing my class and so running in a duo is a lot safer/easier than running solo, although i have done successful runs and im proud to say i've taken Dwera down 1 on 1 :wub: He likes to say i only won due to strafe lag but nevermind


Essentially its a case of big numbers good

Edit : Hope this answers your question Chronic

Oh do you remember me btw?

you never answer on msn !!

 

[Shike]

skill=x
nrs=y

if x<1 then x*y>1 hopefully, if x*y<1 still, then just increase y by 1 until x*>1.

 

[Naffets]

you never answer on msn !!

Always running buffbot on 2nd system, thats why xD

Look me up on hib/pry, charnames are below. Will see you on msn sometime though maybe.

Naffets 50 ranger rr4L4
Meepi 50 druid rr6L9
Dooks 50 buffbot rr4L3
Vereesa 50 blademaster rr5L3

 

[Chronictank]

im on alb pry >_<