The gulf between players...

[censi]

Was chatting to brad about it...

do you think they have gone a bit over the top with melee survivability now accross the board...

Im noticing even on hunter the survivability is much much much greater than it ever used to be... because of cl 10 have parry, abs boost, omniprocs, cl heals etc...

With defensive classes u can engage and literally watch your health tick back up..

The gulf between a level 50 toon... and a lvl 50 ml10 cl10 toon with the latest toys is huuuuugge.....

This makes it very very hard for new players to unwrap the fun of daoc because they are up against some real hardcore stuff that experience players will seek out and use...

Its also making a lot of straight up melee fights go on forever.....

defense is cool but it just seems atm its a bit too defensive and to cut to chop things down... (for all sides etc)

Add the recent HOT additions...

Has daoc become too complicated and hard to get into for casual gamers?

 

[Adari]

hell, im already confused and i havent been gone that long

 

[Punishment]

Its bullshit , with cl's etc everyones hp keeps going up and lifebane is doing less and less damage .....

 

[CorNokZ]

I'd say it's too big and too unfriendly towards new players.. Way too many things to get in to!

For us, who have been playing for years and know some ppl, can make a char monday and the next monday be ready for rvr almost fully kitted! New players just can't..

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

Was chatting to brad about it...

do you think they have gone a bit over the top with melee survivability now accross the board...

Im noticing even on hunter the survivability is much much much greater than it ever used to be... because of cl 10 have parry, abs boost, omniprocs, cl heals etc...

With defensive classes u can engage and literally watch your health tick back up..

The gulf between a level 50 toon... and a lvl 50 ml10 cl10 toon with the latest toys is huuuuugge.....

This makes it very very hard for new players to unwrap the fun of daoc because they are up against some real hardcore stuff that experience players will seek out and use...

Its also making a lot of straight up melee fights go on forever.....

defense is cool but it just seems atm its a bit too defensive and to cut to chop things down... (for all sides etc)

Add the recent HOT additions...

Has daoc become too complicated and hard to get into for casual gamers?

wasnt this the case all along ? daoc never was the popular kind of game that made new players try it and stick with it .Daoc is for a few dedicated hc players that know what they want. thats all ;p

 

[Faeldawn]

wasnt this the case all along ? daoc never was the popular kind of game that made new players try it and stick with it .Daoc is for a few dedicated hc players that know what they want. thats all ;p

This has been true since SI was released (thanks Mythic for SC, way to smite a potentially great game!) and unfortunately has done nothing to make this game accessable to newer players.

Realm Abilities are the main culprit, rvr should have been for the fun of large scale pvp and have the RA's very much minor abilities rather than i-win buttons.

How does a new-player at low rr solo nowadays? Unless they have a top template, fotm spec, lvl 50 buffbot and all the associated trappings, they won't stand a chance. This is why so many zerg initially, they simply cannot compete 1v1 at low rr.

It should be possible, however difficult and unlikely, for any player to kill any other player regardless of class or RR, this simply isn't true.

 

[Shike]

It should be possible, however difficult and unlikely, for any player to kill any other player regardless of class or RR, this simply isn't true.

It depends really, what you need to remember is that Mythic built the game to be a multiplayergame with groups. Not as a sologame. Not all classes/specs/templates are matched to perform similar, some things simply are better then others. End of story.

When groups was discovered to not be enough Mythic implemented BG's and those are nice for zergs for both RvRpurpose and for PvE aswell.

However, I agree! The gap is big and its very hard for a low RR to compete if he chooses to go the soloroute but hey, who said it was easy and who ever said it was supposed to be easy? Most classes can zergsurf and bring in rr5 easily that way or just PuG and ding rr5. rr5 tend to give most a solotank really needs, purge2, ip2 and mop3 or something similar, that is enough to win fights I think since not everyone you meet is CL10, ML10 and RR10, there are other lowbies out there on a healthy server (which Dyvet aint) that you can fight.

Im not 100% sure but I think WAR is built quite different which leaves room for most playertypes at least, DAoC as is is too biased towards zerging imo.

 

[Raven]

I disagree, the more time you put into it the more competative your toon should be, its like that in any MMO.

I see it as an extension to levels, you could argue that they should scrap levels because a level 20 cant compete with the level 50s, the same way a poorly equipped person cant compete with well equipped people

 

[Reignfire]

This has been true since SI was released (thanks Mythic for SC, way to smite a potentially great game!) and unfortunately has done nothing to make this game accessable to newer players.

Realm Abilities are the main culprit, rvr should have been for the fun of large scale pvp and have the RA's very much minor abilities rather than i-win buttons.

How does a new-player at low rr solo nowadays? Unless they have a top template, fotm spec, lvl 50 buffbot and all the associated trappings, they won't stand a chance. This is why so many zerg initially, they simply cannot compete 1v1 at low rr.

It should be possible, however difficult and unlikely, for any player to kill any other player regardless of class or RR, this simply isn't true.

I dont agree with most of this post. Censi on his hunter competed with most classes at low RR, Tuz and Ryo also soloed from RR1-2 aswell. My Champ has soloed since RR1(now RR3). Its simply a learning curve knowing which classes you are going to be able to beat and which is harder. Like Jamie said to me in game ' A lot of the Higher RRs will not use all their abilities v a lower RR' This usually allows the lower RR a degree of advantage as he can use ALL his abilities.

I will however concede that to 'solo' you will need a BB and a template.

 

[censi]

A lot of the Higher RRs will not use all their abilities v a lower RR'

dunno about that...

and low RR you got go in gunz blazing and apply a heavy amount of pressure... but high RR's dump like the rest of them.

 

[Sarumann]

just wait until im rr5 ill kill everything

 

[CorNokZ]

just wait until im rr5 ill kill everything

Don't you already?

 

[Sarumann]

Don't you already?

not on champion
but 4L8 and going STRONG!

 

[Cromcruaich]

Yes, its very difficult for new players - not that there really are any.

Is surviveability a problem, well, like someone else was hinting at, it might be for toe2toe but thats a thin slice of the game.

People were complaining for ages about poor survivability against the background of toa bonuses on casters/tanks, so maybe its a good thing, just that it sounds like it ficks up some melee v melee solo scraps.

 

[Eladamri]

indeed

i came back a month ago and rolled a skald from scratch on excaliber midgar, named schar. running in mostly epic armour with a few rogs and 4 artis and playing RR3 skald i dont mind havent it hard, i dont espect not to get added on, zerged down and loosing to ppl. but the attitude from the older players is silly, adding on a player fighting 2 apponents u get a rude and tell to fuck of the next time, attacking albs and hibs on beno bridge resulted in all the hibs and albs running towards me and zerged me down then continued to idle at bridge. i get shouted at mids for attacking a alb on bridge cause he was gonna duel him, i get told constantly how bad i am that i cannot compete against high rank players in SC template and loads of RA, MLs etc.

tbh i dont blame ppl for not starting daoc cause atm its mostly arrogant tards left who plays this game. I never knew how shit ppls attitude was before i started newbie move on a new char with no resources

 

[anioal]

i came back a month ago and rolled a skald from scratch on excaliber midgar, named schar. running in mostly epic armour with a few rogs and 4 artis and playing RR3 skald i dont mind havent it hard, i dont espect not to get added on, zerged down and loosing to ppl. but the attitude from the older players is silly, adding on a player fighting 2 apponents u get a rude and tell to fuck of the next time, attacking albs and hibs on beno bridge resulted in all the hibs and albs running towards me and zerged me down then continued to idle at bridge. i get shouted at mids for attacking a alb on bridge cause he was gonna duel him, i get told constantly how bad i am that i cannot compete against high rank players in SC template and loads of RA, MLs etc.

tbh i dont blame ppl for not starting daoc cause atm its mostly arrogant tards left who plays this game. I never knew how shit ppls attitude was before i started newbie move on a new char with no resources

maybe because you jumped all the soloers with your skald + warrior duo? or am i inversing the cause and the effect and you started to duo as a result of the things you posted?

 

[Maeloch]

Less to do with gear and mls I think than just not knowing wtf is going on. An experienced player will do okay on a low rr toon even with stuff missing. Give a new player at rr10 fully kitted out toon and he'll just die all time, peeps will run thru abuse, strafe, spam grey interrupts, whatever, use every trick, and he won't know what's hit him.

 

[thergador]

it always been baised one or the other really ie
dark age of tankalot or dark age od castalot

at any point in the games history the side that hasnt had it good has whined kicked and screamed till the others got nerfed and maybe this is why peeps tend to roll fotm toons. but that fights between tanks now are beyond silly with ml10 cl10 and rr5+ most tank run around with more hp than golly the dragaon. and casters do more damage than than mount vesuvius. in fact the only thing that has remained constant in daoc is the bugs

just my 10cent

i still think daoc had the potential to be the best game ever

 

[Stallion]

i came back a month ago and rolled a skald from scratch on excaliber midgar, named schar. running in mostly epic armour with a few rogs and 4 artis and playing RR3 skald i dont mind havent it hard, i dont espect not to get added on, zerged down and loosing to ppl. but the attitude from the older players is silly, adding on a player fighting 2 apponents u get a rude and tell to fuck of the next time, attacking albs and hibs on beno bridge resulted in all the hibs and albs running towards me and zerged me down then continued to idle at bridge. i get shouted at mids for attacking a alb on bridge cause he was gonna duel him, i get told constantly how bad i am that i cannot compete against high rank players in SC template and loads of RA, MLs etc.

tbh i dont blame ppl for not starting daoc cause atm its mostly arrogant tards left who plays this game. I never knew how shit ppls attitude was before i started newbie move on a new char with no resources

me and the bard were gonna leave you til you attacked us. I will in for future reference leave you alone if I am teamed up. Best regards. /keep it up

 

[liloe]

I think it's a lot about who the new players meet when they first join the game. Your friends have a big influence on what you do in this game I think. If you meet nice people who tell you how this game works quite fast, then you have better chances to be competitive in 1v1 or 8v8 fights. If you meet people who simply play to beat something down (and I'm definately not attacking anyone here, play as you wish imo), then you'll be more inclined to make an average temp and just go beat down stuff aswell. Both can be fun for people, that's sure, but that won't bring a new base of solo players.

I think one big problem is, that some parts of this game are only to be done with outside help. Let's look at making templates. First of all you need an external program with an item database, then some experience to get the parts done correctly etc.
You want to set your skills at lvl 50? Again you need an external program, cause Mythic (not even GOA, what a shame) only shows the spell-lines, but in theory you'd have to calculate what you can spec yourself.

Basically there is a big information hole in this game, which new players instantly fall into.

It's not that hard to get CL10 after you ding a toon 50 and it's not that hard to get it to ML10 either, but people need to get told better, I think that's the thing that creates a gap between new and old players.

 

[Cadelin]

Yes, its very difficult for new players - not that there really are any.

This is a problem with the UK cluster mainly though. On other servers, there are many more people and alot of new/inexperienced/very casual players.

On the US servers people level up alot in BG so they are often almost rr4 before they hit 50. On the Limors (and I assume other european servers) there are large zergs that are constantly up and battling each other. These aren't places to become the most skilled player ingame but you can get experience and rps playing your class without having to get a perfect template and have read every thread in exsistance about game mechanics.

 

[Gibbo]

It isn't a gulf between players, its a gulf between classes and class abilities.

Mythic have never got class balance right.

 

[Matmardigan]

the problem with daoc and several other MMOG is the amount of "time" u've to put into to have fun.

 

[liloe]

It isn't a gulf between players, its a gulf between classes and class abilities.

Mythic have never got class balance right.

Any maybe one day people will get it that classes are not being balanced for 1v1, but for groups. Sure it's fun to solo, but you can't ask to have classes fixed for solo fights.

 

[aika]

liloe you loved that PA today?

 

[Faeldawn]

I dont agree with most of this post. Censi on his hunter competed with most classes at low RR, Tuz and Ryo also soloed from RR1-2 aswell. My Champ has soloed since RR1(now RR3). Its simply a learning curve knowing which classes you are going to be able to beat and which is harder. Like Jamie said to me in game ' A lot of the Higher RRs will not use all their abilities v a lower RR' This usually allows the lower RR a degree of advantage as he can use ALL his abilities.

I will however concede that to 'solo' you will need a BB and a template.

I'd hardly call Censi a new player and i know your not either. Oddly enough, you have actually agreed with me on most of what I said

My point is, as i said, you need the kind of template and tools new players can only dream of to compete at low rr. Older players can afford this and get it sc'd etc, new players will turn up in semi-rog and get blasted back to the ice age and probably emote-spammed to boot. I speak to enough new players with offering advice etc to know the vast majority quote this as the reason they leave the game. Quite a few new players do try DAoC, unfortunately few ever stay.

/agree with liloe btw

 

[jamiesmallicus]

Scharr

I think the reason everyone ganks you is the fact that a trio of you were happily ganking soloers all yesterday
I went out of my way to add on any fights you were involved in after been killed by your trio several times..

Jamie

 

[ebenezer]

i kidn of agree to a lot censi is saying there imo. For a while it was all reavers/valks/wardens/maulers/armsmen in a big mess in the solo game at the killbury cluster(US). Albs/hibs had a great difficulty fighting valks and all players had difficulties with maulers. Now that they nerfed that hot it seems a lil better from what i heard. But with all those mythirians and what not it draggs the fights out a lot.
Its very nice that you can survive longer as i remember in past one was discussing that a lot with people that when dark age of castalot came to stay everyone died in seconds^^
So maybe thats what they answered now...not sure.
/eb.

 

[censi]

Originally Posted by Eladamri
i came back a month ago and rolled a skald from scratch on excaliber midgar, named schar. running in mostly epic armour with a few rogs and 4 artis and playing RR3 skald i dont mind havent it hard, i dont espect not to get added on, zerged down and loosing to ppl. but the attitude from the older players is silly, adding on a player fighting 2 apponents u get a rude and tell to fuck of the next time, attacking albs and hibs on beno bridge resulted in all the hibs and albs running towards me and zerged me down then continued to idle at bridge. i get shouted at mids for attacking a alb on bridge cause he was gonna duel him, i get told constantly how bad i am that i cannot compete against high rank players in SC template and loads of RA, MLs etc.

tbh i dont blame ppl for not starting daoc cause atm its mostly arrogant tards left who plays this game. I never knew how shit ppls attitude was before i started newbie move on a new char with no resources

you are not being strictly honest with your own apprasel here... I was a bit hard on you which became apparent as I watched you get killed a few times... I realised then you were new. At first I thought you were just a blatent greifer...

because my first encounter with you was at eras I would be fighting an opponent he was the only person there and you run in and kind of leech kill him with the last shot.... (what happened next was funny though, but we will keep that our secret)

The next time I saw you it was the same thing... (ditto with what happened next again, let just say there is a god and you upset him)

I think I was too quick to label you as an idiot and your not... At the moment your a new player runinng around with no concept of respect and a toon thats a very weak platform to RVR with (thats gonna frustrate you too, and you need to fix this by a) reserching skalds, b) playing more)

when we finally spoke the third time I tried to explain to you about this respect thing... that means you can still play the game, kill things... Maybe add in the chaos of a mass RVR brawl... But just to bear in mind that a lot of people now in the context of the shelf life of daoc, play with a bit of respect for enemies... this is something thats evolved with the game... Its not in your interests RP wise to not "if its red or dead attack" everything... but lots of players dont because its in the interest of the overal playability of the game...

You can ignore what I said to you and take me for a fucking rude leetist idiot or whatever you wanna call me... Or you can try and take on board what im telling you, because one things for sure, if you stick with the game and start to enjoy your toon and enjoying competative fights, you will start to value this respect thing and naturally develope a level of respect for other players and you wont want to add on them...

that doesnt mean you can only solo
that doesnt mean you cant add in a mass brawl
that doesnt mean you can KOS people you hate

All it means is you will naturally play in a way where the people you admire most and want to be nice to... are the people you are supposed to be killing...

You will also come to understand that these players want nothing more than to have a good fight with your skald, and if you beat them they will be happy for you.

Thats the good side of the game...

A lot of bad players (or new players or casual players,whatever you wanna call them) fail to take this on board... Because respect is something that some people, as part of that make up as a human being, just simple dont have.. They will be the ones saying things like... Its ok to add its just a game, or FO when you pay my subs you can tell me not too add, or I got added on so I now add on all...

At the end of the day, if we all took that attitude the game would definetly be 100% unplayable... Daoc is made a great game because theres players with great attitudes playing it (an attitude not supported or encouraged by the game designers its worth mentioning).... Its also made a frustrating game because theres a lot of idiots playing it....

Which camp will you choose to pick??? only time will tell...

 

[liloe]

liloe you loved that PA today?

Ahh, you are Lasttime =) I love every PA I can get ^^ Nah seriously, with my 18xx HP I fall rather quickly. I thought I was templated, then I found out that my most expensive items (which I still need) are the ones with +hits on them, so I'm rather gimped ^^ Ah well no matter, I play the ranger sometimes just for fun and I'm mostly grouped with Galadharn and trying to catch stuff at bridges.
This way I'm quite sure not to do any harm to soloers when attacking as duo =)

Waiting for 1.88 to make my new temp with Bounty items, but I respecced to 50bow already, with my melee temp Not the smartest move I think but oh well, it's only the ranger =)