The effectiveness of scouts

[krait]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The effectiveness of scouts

Originally posted by old.willowywicca


I kept being PAed and cleric stunned and then shot by anysh for over 600 damage repeatedly..

If Anysh shot you for 600+ dam once you were stunned ,it could have been a crit shot.
Either you have great resists or he was using the faster Bow or Hunting Bow. <shrug>

 

[SilverHood]

There's 2 types of scouts in my eyes

those who do annoying damage with their bows

and those who do moderate damage with their bows

Being shot for 150 hps each hit is hardly gonna get me worried

Some scouts can hit for 300-500... and they can be a bit of a worry

but I have engage, so they rarely get more than 2 hits in.

 

[old.Jeriraa]

The only point where archers can become a real danger for non-casters is when they group. 2 archers firing 2 crit shots each dont leave much of a tank standing. Even if 1 hit is blade turned.

Myself I'm not hunting alone anymore simply bcz of the pure number of assassins out there. Even if it's only a SB I see stealthed I'm getting close to a heart attack. I'm getting paranoid when on my own in the frontier! In groups I either shoot casters when they slip through the cc or I assist tanks. Both hardly ever gives me a killing hit but helps my group alot.

I'm playing the most gimped class in the game and I have to admit: I like it. )

 

[revminster]

Originally posted by old.Jeriraa
The only point where archers can become a real danger for non-casters is when they group.

I don't agree. I'll attack any class solo when I get the opportunity. Just fire as many arrows as possible, then try finish in melee. Usually works out ok.

 

[old.willowywicca]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The effectiveness of scouts

Originally posted by krait


If Anysh shot you for 600+ dam once you were stunned ,it could have been a crit shot.
Either you have great resists or he was using the faster Bow or Hunting Bow. <shrug>

erm from this I take it you think 600 damage was low? you do realise I'm not a caster but a tank in scale right??

 

[krait]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The effectiveness of scouts

Originally posted by old.willowywicca


erm from this I take it you think 600 damage was low? you do realise I'm not a caster but a tank in scale right??

600 dam from a crit shot could be from a Bow (about 4.7spd)....... normal damage could work out around ~300...... all depends what resists you have.
I never said it was low or high...just a possibility for the damage....do'nt read into it anything other than what i wrote.

 

[Svartur]

I would like to see some different scouts, everone seems to have sniper templates which I personally think is outdated.
Not playing scout so I can't really tell, but I would like to try a scout with one of the following templates.

22 stealth (can easily be raised to 35-39)
39 slash/thrust
50 shield (Brutilize! - low end, long duration stun)
36 longbow

Imagine some Mastery of Blocking with the natural high dex. Would be a lot of blocking and a low end 9 second stun.
With low stealth you will easliy know when an assassin is around.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28 stealth
50 thrust (Dragonfang! - low end, 9 sec stun)
35 shield (42 not needed since you have dragonfang, 50+ shield possible with items and rr)
36 longbow

With high dex/qui and Dodger 3 or so Dragonfang could be used frequantly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or maybe...

28-32 stealth
29 slash (amethyst slash - large bonus to hit)
50 shield (Brutalize!)
38-41 longbow

Everyone seems so fond of having high crit cap. I think a high melee specced scout could be fun.
But then again, I never played a scout but I would love trying one out with one of the above speccs.
Having 38 base bow instead of 50 base would give you around 36 points lower dmg cap and a little bit lower weapon skill with bow.

Is any scout specced something like this? Never met one that don't use slam in melee afaik.

 

[old.Cyric]

I see your point, but... ehh.

I still heavily favour slam at the most in shield spec then spreading my other points that I save around in other lines.

The 50 shield style is great and all, but I have no use for it. The only style I ever use against Shadowblades, which is about the only class that ever attacks me without me picking the fight, is Slam. I NEED to slam the guy before he gets me with the creeping death stun, so, that's my stun used up. That's done with pure human reactions, as with a PA with a quickish weapon, and whatever lag I have from the server, I can't wait to block first.... I just /face, slam the second I hear the poison noise. Don't get me wrong, I do block crits sometimes, but, I can't rely on it.

Without ignore pain, if I don't slam then and there, I can't really see that hitting a bit harder in melee will make up for the times I would fail to get brutalise in quickly. I'm a bit wary about trusting my shield enough to try and melee a shadowzerker with our somewhat flimsy melee damage output. Might look at it again if I manage to make that many realm points, but for now, I'll stick with my two crits after slam doing a fair bit more damage

As for high weapon spec at the loss of stealth or bow.... I need the amythest slash, as I do get hit -far- more than I enjoy by shadowblades, but, I would have picked an infiltrator if I wanted to dance with melee classes. I like my bow, however hard it is to make it useful and besides, Krait made it

This is all while thinking about soloing, or in stealther groups. A bit pointless I know, but we can dream In groups I'm more than happy to let the pallys, armsmen and Sycho do the meleeing while I just hang back and arrowspam.

Sniping is outdated, yes. I would have been more than happy if the goalposts weren't moved, then moved again, then uprooted and swapped for a basketball hoop, so that I could stick with my original plan of max bow, high stealth and just not bothering to train in melee skills, but... Mythic told me that I wasn't allowed to do that. In the same way mr. Sainsburys tells me what food to buy with the red price reduction stickers

 

[Jupitus]

well I am no expert (total n00b, in fact) but I have a ickle low level scout who might make it out there sometime.

Her name is Nhelli, and she is a cute little saracen chick

Spec will be a gimpy one, designed for caster or keep defence. Get me in melee and I'll be toast

Shield 50
Bow 50 (yeah - I'm not sure about that bit, but I think damage cap goes up with + items - if someone can help I'd appreciate it)
Stealth 14
Thrust 25
Envenom 50

The stealth just lets me get on a wall to get a crit off on a caster without being killed (except by SBs of course). I'd be relying 100% on camouflage to ever get anywhere on my own Thrust 25 gives a style chained off block, and with high dex I hope to block regularly. I'd never be able to solo really, would only be able to RvR in a team, but I'd hope to be able to join casters in ranged attack and add a bit of shield protection to them too.

Am I mad?

Oh, and by the way - the 50 envenom comes from my uncle shoving his lifebane on my sword for me

Jup.

 

[Desdecado-Seven]

Svart.

I Tried the dragonfang spec, its great PvE, sucks RvR. Maybe i couldnt get it to swing for me...

I would guess the common spec for scouts at the mo is

42 Shield
42+ bow (its easy to get to 50 and max famage cap)
And then some mix of thrust and stealth, mines 39 thrust.

Is that sniper template? its kinda reasonably balanced okay for PvE, guard is welcome by all, and enough thrust damage to count. Tho normally my role is tank guard (dont style, no agro wanted), the occasional cleric saving taunt style.

Hmm RvR is tricky, I rarely get to use guard, normally theres too many people on my guarded person (small shield 1 block). Occasionally I can use it at the end of the battle when numbers are depleted, usually to save the healer from being chomped by the Troll That Wont DAMN die.

Bow wise, it is so subjective to tell, I tend to swap bows depending on my role, If i am on caster disrupt duty, damage will be low, if I am at a defended position, shooting off battlements for example, it will be high. I have certainly Crit Shot against Blej for 840 before, and trelawny for 1024. I wouldnt be able to guess an average. So I'll clear down my log and run it thru the analyser and get back to you....I'll do all tests with a Longbow 16.2 dps 100% qual, so you can see, oh and I will use blunt arrows I think they are damage neutral vs middie armour

Just need some targets now...

 

[Arlone]

Originally posted by old.Cyric
The 50 shield style is great and all, but I have no use for it. The only style I ever use against Shadowblades, which is about the only class that ever attacks me without me picking the fight, is Slam. I NEED to slam the guy before he gets me with the creeping death stun, so, that's my stun used up. That's done with pure human reactions, as with a PA with a quickish weapon, and whatever lag I have from the server, I can't wait to block first.... I just /face, slam the second I hear the poison noise. Don't get me wrong, I do block crits sometimes, but, I can't rely on it.

brutalize (lvl 50 shieldstyle) is FAR better than slam tho, and VERY easy to use. It lands way more often than slam does, it last 10 seconds (slam is 9), it does better damage, uses less endurance and can be performed 4 times (maybe more with small shield) in a row resulting in ~1000 damage to your opponent during these 10 secs.

There is absolutely no problem landing these. Someone attack, hit engage to make sure you get a block, hit brutalize after block, keep hitting brutalize for 10 seconds or run away and shoot arrows for 10 seconds

Seems like a pretty good specc for me. Since I got brutalize I almost never use slam unless I really need to instastop anyone thats not attacking me.

 

[old.Cyric]

Originally posted by Arlone
There is absolutely no problem landing these. Someone attack, hit engage to make sure you get a block, hit brutalize after block, keep hitting brutalize for 10 seconds or run away and shoot arrows for 10 seconds

I used that tactic a lot while I only had bash and not slam. It did work, but not as well as just hitting the guy with a slam. Tbh, most of my fights are very quick, and the two crit shots after the slam will either nearly kill the guy or will go wrong, if they land, I'll finish the fight with a fair bit of endurance left after a few amythest slashes, if they miss, I'm a corpse anyway. Endurance isn't much of a worry for me. The arrow shots are almost covered by my level 2 tireless I'd love to have the style, but for the way I usually play things, I can't spare the points
One level of mastery of blocking nearly gives as much bonus to blocking as the 42 --> 50 spec shield, and I save, so many points!

Gotta agree, a S'n'B armsman would need some serious backup plan not to go 50 shield, as their fights are longer, and brutalize would really help in a fight. I find it just ain't worth the points in my template... depends on your playstyle I guess. Anyone know any scouts with 50 shield? They use it much?