The dps/asd debuff history!

[Stallion]

Bored at work so decided to clear some doubts about the history of asd/dps debuffs.

It all started with the attack speed debuffs healers/enchanters/theurgist got.
- Healer's had to specialize into Pacification to get the insta debuff, which started at spec level 2, meaning even menders/aug healers could get it without losing anything

-Enchanter's had to spec into Bedazzling (Light) to get this, but enchanters also got a area of effect version.
Singel target insta debuff started at spec level 7 with the area of effect one with 350 radius could be bought at spec level 17. For those that dont know, you could keep zergs interrupted with this spell. It even put em into combat, unlike now.

-Theurgist's had to spec into Abrasion (Earth) to get this. Singel target insta debuff started at spec level 3.

With this summary all 3 realms had access to the spell, Mid had more use of it as they usaly run 3 Healer's. Compare to hibs running 1-2 Enchanter's and albs 1 to 0 Theurgist's. Enchanters had the AE version of it which kind of made up for having it on fewer grp members compared to mids. Albs however never really discovered this.

The stated buggs with these Attack Speed Debuffs were:

-Attack speed debuff spells would keep the target from evading or blocking. (Meaning an enchanter in tank groups could literally disable any defensive tank vs a assist train). Not like we had much of those back in those days but anyway was a possibility.

-Attack speed debuff spells would interrupt any caster or archer cast upon. This would happen even if resisted. (This made it viable for a healer to spam this as a level 2 spell even if highly resisted on a level 50 target). Same goes for Enchanter's/Theurgist's.

As of the imbalance of both the power of the insta interrupt and the population, (albs never discovered this feature really). Mytic decided to nerf this insta attack speed debuffing for all realms making it not interrupt even if landed on the target. This came on EU servers with patch 1.51 which was released 10/15/2002. Problem for most people was that mytic wanted to add more utility to the enchanter line, so they added a short duration, high attack speed debuff to Enchanter Bedazzling spec to improve the usefulness of the list. A.K.A THE FEARED DPS DEBUFF!

Short duration, high attack speed debuff
11 Dazzling Flash 5%
21 Dazzling Torch 10%
31 Dazzling Flare 15%
41 Dazzling Strobe 20%

So basicly they added a new insta interrupt spell only it debuffed some1 base melee damage insteed of their attack speed.

- Instant cast debuffs should no longer interrupt other player casters and player archers.

Anyhow just to prove my point, enchanters either have the level 11 spell or level 22 spell. meaning a resist rate of 34,5% and 29,5%. Take great notice I give you these resist rates as this debuff opposed to the old attack speed debuff does not interrupt if target resists the debuff.

No need to flame etc just some short history!

 

[liloe]

interesting.......although I'd like to know if the dmg difference on a debuffed target is noticeable. Could you also enlighten us on this topic plz? =)

 

[anubis]

and your point is?
you abuse this thingy the same way savages use antigrapple buffs
you cast it on seers/casters (fear seer/caster melee!!!1111), savages cast acu/pom on themselves
next

 

[RaiztliN]

The last 4-5 times I've been hit by it, I never resisted it (so doubt your resist rates ), and it always interrupts me

But hey, thx for info, great reading

 

[Stallion]

interesting.......although I'd like to know if the dmg difference on a debuffed target is noticeable. Could you also enlighten us on this topic plz? =)

Wrote a post over at Hibernia section about soloing with these debuffs in NF as a light enchanter.

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=24106

But for mana enchanters the haste debuff of 11% makes it alot easier for pet to keep you up with heals. dps debuff with 10% lower delve base damage helps alot. so basicly use em all you can. they are really important. Paladins/mincers/hunters/scouts/ you name it (none light tanks) dont have a chance to outdmg the pet. Anyway its in the aspect of debuffing for your pet to keep you up. Else their useless, like in grp rvr, except for the dps interrupt.

 

[Stallion]

The last 4-5 times I've been hit by it, I never resisted it (so doubt your resist rates ), and it always interrupts me

But hey, thx for info, great reading

Must have been something else interrupting you..

 

[Stallion]

and your point is?
you abuse this thingy the same way savages use antigrapple buffs
you cast it on seers/casters (fear seer/caster melee!!!1111), savages cast acu/pom on themselves
next

this isnt meant to be another nab whine thread, so please fuck the hell off this post. there is no POINT or argument for this!

 

[Stallion]

Add to that Cabalist & Spiritmaster.

Sorry for missing this out but..

-Cabalists has insta attack speed debuff in their Body Destruction line at spec level 2.

-Spiritmasters has insta attack speed debuff ni their Spirit Suppression line at spec level 7.

sorry for neglecting those, kinda makes some assumtions in first post useless as realm population of classes. Seems only enchanters had 1 class with it while other realms had 2.

 

[anubis]

u forgot champs, story teller

none of them now interrupt cept for chanters'

 

[Stallion]

u forgot champs, story teller

none of them now interrupt cept for chanters'

their different spells. asd is not dps debuff :eek2:

wish there were more constructive poster like yourself.

 

[anubis]

from camelotherald

Distracting Scintillation
Spell line: Debuff (=> Combat Speed <=)
Reduces the target's => combat speed <=, which will cause it to be considerably less effective in melee combat.

Value: -7%
Target: Enemy Target
Range: 1500
Damage type: Heat
Duration: 2 minutes
Power cost: 5
Power cost per round of spell: 1
Casting time: Instant
Recast time: 5 seconds



Dazzling Flash
Spell line: Debuff (=> Combat Speed <=, Short Duration)
Reduces the target's => combat speed <=, which will cause it to be considerably less effective in melee combat.

Penalty: 5%
Target: Enemy Target
Range: 1500
Damage type: Heat
Duration: 30 seconds
Power cost: 7
Casting time: Instant
Recast time: 5 seconds


both are the same type of spells /shrug

 

[Stallion]

from camelotherald

Distracting Scintillation
Spell line: Debuff (=> Combat Speed <=)
Reduces the target's => combat speed <=, which will cause it to be considerably less effective in melee combat.

Value: -7%
Target: Enemy Target
Range: 1500
Damage type: Heat
Duration: 2 minutes
Power cost: 5
Power cost per round of spell: 1
Casting time: Instant
Recast time: 5 seconds



Dazzling Flash
Spell line: Debuff (=> Combat Speed <=, Short Duration)
Reduces the target's => combat speed <=, which will cause it to be considerably less effective in melee combat.

Penalty: 5%
Target: Enemy Target
Range: 1500
Damage type: Heat
Duration: 30 seconds
Power cost: 7
Casting time: Instant
Recast time: 5 seconds


both are the same type of spells /shrug

you know how reliable herald info is? do we have 2 sec casting speed cap? no. one is melee damage debuff and 1 is haste debuff.

they both stack and do different things.

 

[Claudius]

Sorry for missing this out but..

-Cabalists has insta attack speed debuff in their Body Destruction line at spec level 2.

-Spiritmasters has insta attack speed debuff ni their Spirit Suppression line at spec level 7.

sorry for neglecting those, kinda makes some assumtions in first post useless as realm population of classes. Seems only enchanters had 1 class with it while other realms had 2.

The population argument still holds. Cabbies, theurgs and spiritmasters had low population in RvR back then. And its probably why you forgot to mention them in the first place.

 

[Kpax]

their different spells. asd is not dps debuff
Who cares? Instant debuffs should not interrupt. Asd, dps, whatever. But chanter dps debuff interupts and its a bug.


- Instant cast debuffs should no longer interrupt other player casters and player archers. - 1.51 release notes

 

[Stallion]

their different spells. asd is not dps debuff
Who cares? Instant debuffs should not interrupt. Asd, dps, whatever. But chanter dps debuff interupts and its a bug.


- Instant cast debuffs should no longer interrupt other player casters and player archers. - 1.51 release notes

remember they added the new line same patch, saying enchanters needed more to their line.. im fine with it beeing nerfed, I want pb disease nerfed aswell then. aslong as pb disease interrupting, dps debuff should be ingame.

 

[Kpax]

remember they added the new line same patch, saying enchanters needed more to their line..
Ok, enchanters got their new line, to debuff enemys dps. Not to interrupt enemy casters/seers/archers. I see no point why dps debuff should be exception.

As for pbae desease, well, you can want it nerfed, but its working as intended. Not like dps debuff that interrupts against game mechanics.

 

[Stallion]

remember they added the new line same patch, saying enchanters needed more to their line..
Ok, enchanters got their new line, to debuff enemys dps. Not to interrupt enemy casters/seers/archers. I see no point why dps debuff should be exception.

As for pbae desease, well, you can want it nerfed, but its working as intended. Not like dps debuff that interrupts against game mechanics.

im going away fór lunch now, until im back, I want you to give me an explenation why pb disease is working as intended and dps debuff aint. WITH no conncetion to the -post insta debuffs hsould no longer interrupt blablabla, as both are debuffs.

 

[Aussie]

I remember Outlaw using that alot when i roamed with his group(s). He stopped using it because it only had a better effect on all those frontload zerks . So the only enemy where he used it for was escaping stealthers. Most theurs use their 2k+ range for petspam so I guess thats the reason why they didn't(couldn't) make use of that insta interrupt.

 

[Kpax]

as both are debuffs.
Could you please give me a link where Mythic saying that desease is counted as debuff spell, kkthx

 

[Aussie]

as both are debuffs.
Could you please give me a link where Mythic saying that desease is counted as debuff spell, kkthx

duel a shaman , let him use it on you and look at your stats instead of asking stupid questions

 

[Kpax]

this is not about me, its about Mythic and their spell descriptions. So go, and ask for duel with shaman some involved mythic developers.

 

[vintervargen]

camlann 4 teh wynz.

no realm balance whine. no realm population whine. hardly any zerg whine.

 

[Belomar]

Albs however never really discovered this.

Yeah, right--insta ASD debuff was my "I WIN"-button back then, was a godsend both when soloing and in groups. Thus, I can naturally see how you chanters would be attached to it, but that does not mean it should not be fixed (note the word "fixed" and not "nerfed"--there is nothing to nerf here since the interrupt part is a bug).

Perhaps it is time for chanters to step out of easy mode that any idiot can play, and become a proper cloth caster?

Anyhow just to prove my point, enchanters either have the level 11 spell or level 22 spell. meaning a resist rate of 34,5% and 29,5%. Take great notice I give you these resist rates as this debuff opposed to the old attack speed debuff does not interrupt if target resists the debuff.

Please show logs of this fact.

And stop going on with your argument in regards to PBAE disease; Shamans are hybrid healers, and everyone knows hybrids have instas. End of story.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Started a bit earlier:

Classes had debuffs:

str, dex, attack speed, str/con, dex/qui

They had cast times of 2s or 3s - noone ever used them.

To make them more useful Mythic made them all instants with a recast timer, however they interrupted.

Soon after they decided that that was cheesy and they removed the interrupts from them.

All except the attack speed debuff (which someone forgot about), which was spammed mightily by those that had it making the enemy go "waah" about how cheesy it was.

This was then later fixed, but the enchanter DPS debuff (which I believe is the same spell as the reaver pbaoe aura...) was never changed, and still interrupts in an instacheesyway. Joy.

Since every other spell that interrupts interrupts regardless of whether it's resisted or not (amnesia is different having no interrupt component but a "mind goes blank" effect when it lands) I'd say you have the burden of proof on that one.

If you're sure that dps debuff doesn't interrupt when resisted let's see some logs.

 

[Jaapi]

this is not about me, its about Mythic and their spell descriptions.

Actually it's not. You are the only one that has mentioned spell descriptions in here, others are talking about what the spells actually do.
Disease debuffs stats, end of story.

 

[Kpax]

I still havent found any sources of information, that Desease spells are included in Debuff spells category by Mythic. So I dont see any reasons why desease spells should not interrupt according to the patch notes 1.51:
- Instant cast debuffs should no longer interrupt other player casters and player archers.
End of Story.

 

[Stallion]

Started a bit earlier:

Classes had debuffs:

str, dex, attack speed, str/con, dex/qui

They had cast times of 2s or 3s - noone ever used them.

To make them more useful Mythic made them all instants with a recast timer, however they interrupted.

Soon after they decided that that was cheesy and they removed the interrupts from them.

All except the attack speed debuff (which someone forgot about), which was spammed mightily by those that had it making the enemy go "waah" about how cheesy it was.

This was then later fixed, but the enchanter DPS debuff (which I believe is the same spell as the reaver pbaoe aura...) was never changed, and still interrupts in an instacheesyway. Joy.

Since every other spell that interrupts interrupts regardless of whether it's resisted or not (amnesia is different having no interrupt component but a "mind goes blank" effect when it lands) I'd say you have the burden of proof on that one.

If you're sure that dps debuff doesn't interrupt when resisted let's see some logs.

proof comming up tonight.. I know from soloing experience what it does and does not.

 

[Flimgoblin]

proof comming up tonight.. I know from soloing experience what it does and does not.

cool

 

[Flimgoblin]

I still havent found any sources of information, that Desease spells are included in Debuff spells category by Mythic. So I dont see any reasons why desease spells should not interrupt according to the patch notes 1.51:
- Instant cast debuffs should no longer interrupt other player casters and player archers.
End of Story.

disease is a castable spell, just the shaman has an 8s recastable instant

same way that instant versions of castable mezz interrupt.

The problem with the shaman disease is not its interrupting it's that it's on an 8s timer and not a 5m or whatever.

 

[Stallion]

Perhaps it is time for chanters to step out of easy mode that any idiot can play, and become a proper cloth caster?

sure is, wont make much difference to me. but as I will state below, pb disease is both stat and movement debuffing. which means basicly the same thing just debuffs different things, and dont give me the shit about hybrid chars, has nothing to do with it. casters r as much hybrid as shammys.

Please show logs of this fact.

those tests I did showed a 40% resist rate for the level 11 dps debuff and 37% resist rate on the level 22 dps debuff.. and if u read more in the grab bags u would know how to calculate it. but tests with resists is hard to measure as its quite random. can get 10 resists in a row..

(spell level - target level) * 0.5 + 15 = chance (%) to get resisted. (not counting mofocus as we aint in Nf yet)
(11 - 50) * 0,5 + 15 = 34,5%
(22 - 50) * 0,5 + 15 = 29,5%
(2 - 50) * 0,5 + 15 = 39% (old healer asd debuff)