The Downfall of Caual RvR on Prydwen

[Haroat]

these have got to be the worst time for casual gaming that i have EVER seen on daoc... mainly just on pryd, all im seeing everywhere is zergs wtfpwning random grps, then a rvr guild from the random grp's realm wtfpwning the zerg, then oh the other realm decides to bring in a zerg, so we now have 2 realms with 5fg + running together and 1 realm with 2-3 rvr guilds out...

pre-toa this was marginally acceptable because well, casual gamers could still compete 1 vs 1 with the rvr guild players... but now with toa (ml's / arti's mainly) casual gamers are struggling to keep up with the needs of the game.. although credit must go to those helping each other out (Elendar, Rebling etc (organisers of raids)) i think were much getting into the worst times ive seen on mid / pryd. not a whine thread, not a thread i want flaming for etc, would just like to know if im the only 1 with this opinion?

 

[Jaem-]

You get what you put into the game, tho I agree the effort/time isn't avialable to alot of people to do so.

 

[Dracus]

Ill flame ya all i bloody want haro u gimp! aside from that ur prolly right.. we're back to the usual rollercoaster...1½fg kill fg...then the fg come back with another fg=2fg,cause they were sure it was liek 3fg zergwtf! etc etc

and elo again yuj <--Yiip

/Dracus

 

[Iceflower]

Some of us hope New Frontier will radically change the rvr situation to help educe the gap between casuals and 24/7 players. Not sure it will happen though.

 

[Jareth Spellfire]

Tbh when weve been 1fg beating another fg, most of the time the other party brings more because they didnt like getting killed, instead of trying again with style.

 

[Zebolt]

I don't think it's worse now that pre toa tbh. There are pretty easy to get a good template with easy getting artifacts and solo/duo quests. ML's ain't the rly the thing that wins a fight so I don't see much of a problem rly. And the zerg problem was just the same as before imo, even tho I personaly don't see it as such a big problem.

 

[Haroat]

well all i can say is from what ive seen in the last 6-8 months is all the updates / expansions mythic have released have aimed for more of a 5 fg vs 5fg war... but the thing is the servers arent fast enough for it, peoples computers / conextions arent fast enough for it, i personally lag when 2fg comes through an mg... relics raids are impossible for me to follow the zerg

 

[belxavier]

tbh give back hadrians wall rvr, at least some fun could be had there... emain just sucks most of the time either noone solo to kill or fgs wtf pawn them b4 u get chance

 

[Ormorof]

yeah gifv back people in HW and odins

 

[Zebolt]

peoples computers / conextions arent fast enough for it, i personally lag when 2fg comes through an mg... relics raids are impossible for me to follow the zerg

Now, thats hardly Mythic's/GOA's fault

 

[Haroat]

Now, thats hardly Mythic's/GOA's fault

never said the computers were mythic's fault, but adapting the game more towards large scale wars instead of fg vs fg / 1 vs 1 etc is there fault.

 

[NeonBlue]

You get what you put into the game, tho I agree the effort/time isn't avialable to alot of people to do so.

so for those ppl who dont have the time to spend hours in TOA or those who choose not too... farming for every artifact going...then farming for the scrolls..then farming to lvl the artis.....these ppl should be punished?

Lets not forget if u do want the TOA option u have to find enough ppl to help you..who are willing to put the silly amounts of time in needed to get whatever artis/scrolls u require....and frankly those ppl arent about...because they all want stuff for themselves...which is fair enough

But after helping ppl get what they want...when it comes to what i want...these ppl suddenly disappear !

i know u said not everyone can do it...but i just hate that statment..."you get what you put into the game"

ive put alot of time into the game and my chars....but yet if i wanna rvr ive either got to a join a usually crappy random group which has a survival rate of about 2mins...or solo and run the risk of getting steamrolled each time by zerging idiots

ive tried HW...ive tried Odins and everytime its been dead....ive tried RvR'ing at 4am in the morning fgs!...just to be steamrolled by 2fgs of lame Hibs

so for the last 2 weeks my gaming time has been consisting of playing Thid (where i at least stand a chance) or crafting....thats my reward for the my time / effort / money ive invested in this game !

 

[Downanael]

I don't think it's worse now that pre toa tbh. There are pretty easy to get a good template with easy getting artifacts and solo/duo quests. ML's ain't the rly the thing that wins a fight so I don't see much of a problem rly. And the zerg problem was just the same as before imo, even tho I personaly don't see it as such a big problem.

Give me good hunter template what dont include Som,Scalars,Scarab Vest,Eirene's,GoV,uber rare TG drops,rog items and i'm happy

 

[Jakus Morgan]

I'm not sure about the current state of casual RvR as I haven't done any for a few weeks. But what Haroat described doesn't sound that much different from what was happening before.
Personally I've long since given up any hopes of being uber, I just play to have fun.
I do not agree that you need a ToA template chock full of very hard to get items & artifacts etc, just to compete. That may be true if you're talking about 1v1 RvR but not otherwise. If you're a random group RvRer, which an awful lot of us are by default, it doesn't make any difference if you have an uber ToA suit; you'll still get steamrollered by a zerg or RvR guild group.
Hence I've personally gone for a medium approach. I've just completed a template for my new RvR Shammy which is ToAed to a certain extent.

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=17140

I can't/won't spend ages (lack of time AND other things to do in game) so I've gone for something that I CAN achieve.

Anyway I'm going to be doing a fair bit of RvR in the near future (mostly random of course ) so I guess I'll be seeing at first hand.
I agree with previous posts though that it would be nice to be able to go to Odin's & HW again & find some people.

And I'm looking forward to Frontiers which will hopefully shake everything up.

 

[Lokir]

well all i can say is from what ive seen in the last 6-8 months is all the updates / expansions mythic have released have aimed for more of a 5 fg vs 5fg war... but the thing is the servers arent fast enough for it, peoples computers / conextions arent fast enough for it, i personally lag when 2fg comes through an mg... relics raids are impossible for me to follow the zerg

Well i have seen a friend play on us and they dont have the lagg we do. There are probably 2 problems.

1.GOA dont have good servers enough
2.The connection to france/GOA (i am in sweden)

The new expansions demand better computers and thats how it is with every game, nothing strange about that.

 

[Cozak]

yeah gifv back people in HW and odins

Heh Sunday night logged df with 3 guild mates when albs had it came back an hour later or so kileld a few there before we got killed so decided to go HW try get a few fights with groups of 3-4peeps what i normally see running in HW all quiet till we get to HMG then we get zerged by 2fg of warders so we try Odins get some frights (2fg+ hibs charging us only to find out they are all green/blue con) and some good fights with hibs then AoD come along 1fg with a random alb fg with them /sigh cant go anywhere without 2fg+ now or an opted group setup.

 

[Zebolt]

never said the computers were mythic's fault, but adapting the game more towards large scale wars instead of fg vs fg / 1 vs 1 etc is there fault.

Adapting the game towards fg vs fg? I don't agree with you there rly. They just added the croc ring for example that share spells to nearby ppl, power fields, heal fields and det fields. And not to mention the upcoming frontiers who rly will be needed to zerg to take a keep etc. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to flame you or anything, but I don't see how the zerg situation and the lag is mythic's/goa's fault tbh.

Well i have seen a friend play on us and they dont have the lagg we do. There are probably 2 problems.

1.GOA dont have good servers enough
2.The connection to france/GOA (i am in sweden)

Pfft, I don't have any lag at all in emain, hardly had any in the RR attempts either. And you know I live in sweden too. So buy a better comp Lokir

 

[harm]

You get what you put into the game, tho I agree the effort/time isn't avialable to alot of people to do so.

Agree. That's just how it works atm and it will always stay that way.

 

[svartalf]

all im seeing everywhere is zergs wtfpwning random grps, then a rvr guild from the random grp's realm wtfpwning the zerg, then oh the other realm decides to bring in a zerg, so we now have 2 realms with 5fg + running together and 1 realm with 2-3 rvr guilds out...

/disagree a lot. I think it's better that people come back with bigger and bigger zergs than just give up, which was what was happening when sotl and or sotl-derivative/wannabe groups pwned all.

I think it's good that Hibernia now has something resembling an RvR presence and not just 1-2fg of gankers. For Midgard, these are challenging times, but I think it's good to see random people get some success RvR, before toa everything was leetdoods, even zergs would be beaten by them.

These days even random people can get RPs. Good for them!

 

[robbe]

need strong guild.. to get strong guild u need players playing alot it just blows aye

 

[atos]

I don't think it's worse now that pre toa tbh. There are pretty easy to get a good template with easy getting artifacts and solo/duo quests. ML's ain't the rly the thing that wins a fight so I don't see much of a problem rly. And the zerg problem was just the same as before imo, even tho I personaly don't see it as such a big problem.

Make me a thane template then.

 

[Zebolt]

Give me good hunter template what dont include Som,Scalars,Scarab Vest,Eirene's,GoV,uber rare TG drops,rog items and i'm happy

Scalars are easy with 3 ppl, GoV ain't that hard need 1fg or so, GSV ain't so hard just takes some time etc..

Make me a thane template then.

damn, what a lazy cowboy!

 

[Ogen]

Well, here is what i think.. This game is a roleplaying game. And therefor i belive what ever people chose to do, its their own choice. And personally i like those realm vs realm fights Moustly becouse the Mess=win dosent apply to those fights, in the same amount of degree in wich it does in 1fg vs 1fg fights..

Just my thoughts. Sorry for the miss spelling Im kinda tired atm..

 

[robbe]

Well, here is what i think.. This game is a roleplaying game. And therefor i belive what ever people chose to do, its their own choice. And personally i like those realm vs realm fights Moustly becouse the Mess=win dosent apply to those fights, in the same amount of degree in wich it does in 1fg vs 1fg fights..

Just my thoughts. Sorry for the miss spelling Im kinda tired atm..

stay on excal with u alb excal iq

 

[Inca]

Hmm a lot of interesting points raised on this thread.

First of all i don't think TOA has raised the gap that much and heres why. If you actually count up the utilities on the artifacts and compare them to some relatveiyl easy TOA drops you will see there isn't much in them. Very few of the arti's are immense when compared against some of the drops. As time is going by more and more drops are appearing on cm's and i personally think that with some time, common sense and plat you can buy a TOA template from the cm's, maybe add 1 or 2 easier artifacts and look quite respectable. I agree you won't be as well set up as some of the guys who have access to pretty much any arti/item but you certainly will be in with a shout.

I am only a random player who has cruised around a few of the smaller guilds and i read forums and see these artifact shopping lists which are frankly ludicrous. I think a lot of "random" players are put off by their own greed more than anything else and i think if they settled down for an hour at a market explorer and with a SC calc open they would see they can make nice templates without spending the earth or needing 3 opted groups running round for a week collecting their items.

The next big point is the zerging. I have to say in emain it is frustrating, specially when the groups of over 8 people are already rvr groups and it does make it impossible for random groups to compete. But on the rare occasion that mids do work together and zerg back (effectively) they gain rp's and do enjoy it. 1 thing i have noticed more and more is the class inbalances in emain, it is getting harder to make rounded groups given people's class choices. Another reason a lot of random mid groups loose is just common sense. The number of times the players don't MA, they don't guard, they get 7 players mezzed cause there stood still and huddled etc etc... A lot of the time they say they have been zerged by 2fg's when really it is only 8 players and they have just be owned for their own stupidity.

HW seems to be the arena of choice atm and that is very much more than 1 full group. That said i have had a huge amount of fun there. There seems to be a lot more tactics (on the mid side at least) with a co-operative bg set up that all guilds and players join (regardless of how leet they conisder themselves) and it is a lot of fun. Often there are hunters and shadowblades scouting while also picking off solo players, with the main forces defending a keep, attackign a keep, clearing an mmg or whatever, even so far as leaving the odd group around to guard mmg's to prevent re inforcements etc etc... all in all a lot of fun, a little more tactical than "zerg and kill the first alb/hib you see" and more rewarding on the rp/kills front. Random players/groups have easily been able to get involved with this, along side the top guilds/rvr players.

Another point that was raised though was about mids own rvr guilds. It is very difficult for a random player to do much. Most of the top guilds are not recuriting at all and unless u happen to be boning some1 important in there or have a spare ferrari you can bribe the right person with you won't get in. Even if they are recruiting the requirements are often rr5/6/7+, fotm spec and a full TOA template including 3-5 level 10 good artifacts (damn my band of stars). Given a lot of smaller guilds cannot muster neither the right spec'ed players, the numbers nor the common sense to take a lot of the better artifacts... thats a problem. Also as random rvr is very much that, random, it also makes getting to the high rr's quite hard. Sometimes you get lucky and land in a relatively rounded group, a few players with decent spec and ability to use it and can land a nice 15-25k over the course of an evening. Other times you will land in a group of people who think that healers with damage add are just as capable in melee, are afk for 50% of the time and think that ma is a short name for them mum. With them logging off at the first death (which is often their fault) and having no real class balance, you can play for 6 hours or so and still barely make 5k rp's.

I consider myself a keen player and there are others like me, who want perhaps the better side of the game, in the focused rvr groups/guilds and to be part of large groups taking the most difficult artifacts/mobs etc.. but it is hard to get there. While this may sound like a whinge it certainly isn't but some people through no lack of effort really struggle to get to where they would like to be.

 

[Tuppe]

dunno if smaller guilds have problem whit correct specced chars, its more like problem whit correct classes gimme classes 1st, next start think specces

well, raid is easy to do (ML, TG etc) and explain what each person do and when, here you can play whit classes you have.
example, i run ML1 raid saturday to NE alliance and we had ~2fg, was little worrying becasue we seriously lack melee power.
to cetus we ported whit thane, sb and bone , rest was seers + some botts and we kill cetus in end, shammys was allso whacking cetus + some healers.

how we did that? we did know in advance how mob move around, what tools we had and when use it.
rvr you dont know how some others realm group gona work against you, actions against every movement what "albs/hibs" make, you need know how/what to do and make it possible to beat them.
you need know tools you have, and know how to use those, or when not use.
reactions must come automaticly, you dont start look correct button from keyboard, its allready too late.

casual player, who goes rvr, dont know what tools opponent have and how to make those worth of 0, or how to react so opponent benefit them less.
casual player can be good in rvr, and wanted example in fotm groups but he need know what is his role in group, and how to fill that role,
sadly this means he need earn/make "name" in rvr.