The demise of DAOC the rpg

[Job]

All this fancy new stuff to help us play the game.

They are just shortcuts to the action, as helpful as they are, the whole idea of an RPG is to play the part of a character in a fantasy setting.

The more you cut out the less it makes the game.

DAOC might as well have START - PICK ZONE - START FIGHTING on the front screen.

It may not seem obvious, some may not care.

/lvl was the beginning of the rot, straight away a huge chunk of the game dissapeared.

I'm sure Mythic are aware of this issue and are trying to play a juggling act with game depth and player expectation, but with each patch the game gets smaller not bigger.

Give a classic DAOC, no maps, no face, no stick, no teleport apart from zoning, no /lvl, and while I'm at it NO FREKIN STEALTH

 

[VidX]

And while you're at it, play the game the way you want to.

NONE of those things you are asked for are actually forced on you. YOU choose to upgrade to SI/TOA/NF, YOU choose to press the /face macro, YOU choose to press the /stick macro, YOU choose to use the "omg, wtfbeam me there Mr. Scott" option, and YOU choose to type /level.

They are there to help people who choose to use them, and, once again, not forced on you.

 

[Escape]

Mythic are trying to cater for all of their audiences(roleplayers, PvE farmers & RvR) but failing in all. DAoC started off better than it is now, you could take it easy back then and just explore the game. Now everything's defined, choices are limited and you've got to move with the game, or quit.

I'm hoping EU WoW will have good roleplaying servers, for those evenings of relaxed gaming

 

[Shanaia]

Mythic are trying to cater for all of their audiences(roleplayers, PvE farmers & RvR) but failing in all. DAoC started off better than it is now, you could take it easy back then and just explore the game. Now everything's defined, choices are limited and you've got to move with the game, or quit.

I'm hoping EU WoW will have good roleplaying servers, for those evenings of relaxed gaming

<points @ VidX reply>

no-one forces you to do anything ... join or start a nice roleplay/explore/pve guild .. and play the game you want to play it ... simple as that.

 

[Escape]

I will virtually strangle people who say "play the game as you want to". Frankly, that's bullshit. I cba to elaborate though.

Roleplay on Prydwen? Maybe I should walk into a nursery and start talking politics aswell...

 

[Elitestoner]

Give a classic DAOC, no maps, no face, no stick, no teleport apart from zoning, no /lvl, and while I'm at it NO FREKIN STEALTH

that would be quite a larf tbh

 

[Morchaoron]

And while you're at it, play the game the way you want to.

NONE of those things you are asked for are actually forced on you. YOU choose to upgrade to SI/TOA/NF, YOU choose to press the /face macro, YOU choose to press the /stick macro, YOU choose to use the "omg, wtfbeam me there Mr. Scott" option, and YOU choose to type /level.

They are there to help people who choose to use them, and, once again, not forced on you.

why not make a level 50, rr10, insta craft and insta kill button...

They are there to help people who choose to use them, and, once again, not forced on you.

get the general idea?

 

[Flimgoblin]

Now everything's defined, choices are limited and you've got to move with the game, or quit.

back in the day you had two choices: xp on some random mobs, go to emain.

now you have a lot more choice, arti xp, ml trials, artifact encounters, rvr, keep takes, battlegrounds.

The only reason you can't just "take it easy and explore" is because you've explored it all already. Nothing to do with the game.

There's FAR more to do and far more choices now than there ever have been, just you're not a fresh faced n00b.

Glad to see you're willing to put in the effort to get some friends to have a relaxed time roleplaying ... oh wait you're not, you'd rather just bitch about it (and throw in some random comment about WoW since it's not been mentioned so far in this thread I guess someone has to).

 

[fortunefish]

i wud join the guild

 

[Rookiescot]

And while you're at it, play the game the way you want to.

NONE of those things you are asked for are actually forced on you. YOU choose to upgrade to SI/TOA/NF, YOU choose to press the /face macro, YOU choose to press the /stick macro, YOU choose to use the "omg, wtfbeam me there Mr. Scott" option, and YOU choose to type /level.

They are there to help people who choose to use them, and, once again, not forced on you.

Think his point was that no-one would have the option to do any of those on a purely classic server.

Gotta say I do miss the "halcyon" days of early DAoC. Even though everyone rolled a zerker or a Thane or a smite cleric or an eld.
Except me of course .... who was dumb enough 2 roll a Merc and stuck with the gimp all the way to 50.

 

[Dafft]

back in the day you had two choices: xp on some random mobs, go to emain.

now you have a lot more choice, arti xp, ml trials, artifact encounters, rvr, keep takes, battlegrounds.

The only reason you can't just "take it easy and explore" is because you've explored it all already. Nothing to do with the game.

There's FAR more to do and far more choices now than there ever have been, just you're not a fresh faced n00b.

Glad to see you're willing to put in the effort to get some friends to have a relaxed time roleplaying ... oh wait you're not, you'd rather just bitch about it (and throw in some random comment about WoW since it's not been mentioned so far in this thread I guess someone has to).

:worthy: Flim <3 all!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dreami]

Nothing is good. Always have to QQ. THAT's what DAOC is about meight.

 

[Escape]

back in the day you had two choices: xp on some random mobs, go to emain.

now you have a lot more choice, arti xp, ml trials, artifact encounters, rvr, keep takes, battlegrounds.

Those are choices? I've not met a single person who levels artifacts, hunts for scrolls or MLxp for fun. Maybe you know these people, though I'm quite open-minded, I'd rather not meet them

"Back in the day" there was less content, but the game wasn't as limited. You could take any class, with any spec and join an XP group! There weren't any interviews before joining a lv25 group. Where to level? practically every zone was used and even the frontiers. Where to level now? Maybe DF if it's open, or grab a lv50 char and join a PL group. Thidranki has been out for a long time, even before SI. RvR and keeptakes since the start... and even for those any class/level would do.

You want to argue that players have more freedom now?

 

[Morchaoron]

levelling artifacts was nerve-wrecking boring work yes, but it had to be done, it was either that or be weaker then the other opted groups ;o

 

[Darzil]

Personally, I've been levelling small characters with friends in some of the less frequented spots. Underwater and the small islands around ruins of atlantis are great at the lower 20's.

Darzil

 

[Flimgoblin]

Those are choices? I've not met a single person who levels artifacts, hunts for scrolls or MLxp for fun. Maybe you know these people, though I'm quite open-minded, I'd rather not meet them

"Back in the day" there was less content, but the game wasn't as limited. You could take any class, with any spec and join an XP group! There weren't any interviews before joining a lv25 group. Where to level? practically every zone was used and even the frontiers. Where to level now? Maybe DF if it's open, or grab a lv50 char and join a PL group. Thidranki has been out for a long time, even before SI. RvR and keeptakes since the start... and even for those any class/level would do.

You want to argue that players have more freedom now?

I find making my char better fun - same way xping back in the days was getting your chars up the level for fun... Whole point of the game - otherwise you might as well play quake. Hunting for artifacts _is_ fun.... camping the same place for a scroll is a bit dull I'd have to agree but you could go on a dungeon crawl instead.... artifact xping you can do in groups now that it's by zone...

MLxp you get from RvR - or do you not RvR for fun? Some ML raids can be fun too....

No, back in the day you got turned away for being a leeching scout or infil, or people saw you were a cabalist and screamed "KILL THE PET IT STEALS OUR XP!". Or people turned you down because you weren't exactly the right level.

Where to level now? sure there's not so many lowbie groups but they are there. Soloing for xp has been made much more friendly (especially in 1.71). Catacombs makes it a bit better.

Thidranki's been in since 1.48... so before DF however there certainly wasn't the option before of going to the BG at level 40 or level 1 back then.

(sure you could go emain but you'd get chewed up, oh and depending on patch you'd either be "wizard lfg" for hours on end or "armsman lfg" for hours on end )

The lack of things you find fun is not the game's fault - it's because getting crap xp in the salisbury plains is no longer good enough for you. Having a level 20 char in your level 30 group slows you down too much because all _you_ can focus on is being level 50 and killing in RvR. Now it's quite a prevailing thought that, affects almost all of us from time to time, but you can get around it and try to appreciate killing some undead in the catacombs of carvoda, or finding a glowy drop in dartmoor on the tank you're levelling up

The new players certainly do.

You have plenty of freedom, just you choose to ignore it because some of the things you could do with your freedom aren't "good enough" for you any more because you've been brainwashed into thinking the only thing worth playing for is level 50 in RvR. The game hasn't reduced the amount of things you can do - if anything there's too much to do now. Just the players have.

 

[Void959]

You have plenty of freedom, just you choose to ignore it because some of the things you could do with your freedom aren't "good enough" for you any more because you've been brainwashed into thinking the only thing worth playing for is level 50 in RvR. The game hasn't reduced the amount of things you can do - if anything there's too much to do now. Just the players have.

Pretty much sums up what I was gonna say. If you think that scroll/arti levelling is *neccessary* than it simply shows that your idea of playing the game is to be as powerful/effective as possible in highly competetive RvR. If you think that the class choice is limited to (for example) fire wizz, scout, sorc and mini - it simply shows that your aim in the game is to be better than most others at RvR.

If you think that to be ultimately successful and enjoy your gaming time, you have to run around fully buffed, in a group of 8 highly experienced and organised ML10 players from a 'leet' guild, with 8 hours playtime per day available... It shows that your sole aim in the game is to gain those sublime numbers: the all-important RP - at the maximum rate humanly possible, by mowing down anyone and anything that gets in your way, or indeed within a half-mile radius.

Now I admit that for a significant number of DAOC players, the above attitude is sadly assumed to be the norm; however YOUR enjoyment of the game is only limited by YOUR attitude towards it. If the only way you get enjoyment out of the game is by 'P\/\/n1ng' in RvR, but don't like the tedium, monotony and sheer time input required to get there, then the problem is entirely yours.

 

[Fana]

What Flim said, except i doubt even hardcore pve players enjoy the endless grind that daoc pve can easily become unless your in the spirit for a more creative session, and have friends that dont mind pve either. However, Catacombs should take care of some of that - personaly i play primarily for rvr/pvp but i still look forward to Cata as it will make the pve part more enjoyable

I plan to make me a Valkyrie when its here, and will exp it only in the new cata areas and in the populated bg's - looking forward to it

 

[Flimgoblin]

What Flim said, except i doubt even hardcore pve players enjoy the endless grind that daoc pve can easily become unless your in the spirit for a more creative session, and have friends that dont mind pve either.

I get incredibly bored after about an hour or two camping the same place, it's fun for the first hour or so though. If I can convince the group that roaming around dartmoor or raiding Krondon is more fun than camping taskers or whatever then it's much better

Also if there's some decent banter in the group it makes it more fun.

However, Catacombs should take care of some of that - personaly i play primarily for rvr/pvp but i still look forward to Cata as it will make the pve part more enjoyable

I plan to make me a Valkyrie when its here, and will exp it only in the new cata areas and in the populated bg's - looking forward to it

Catacombs adds even more options - instances (no more getting somewhere and it being camped - plus it's a big dungeon crawl with a goal at the end, not sitting around camping), new classes to play, new zones to explore/kill things in. (though I've explored almost all of them already in the beta ) Loads of miniquests to liven things up. Task dungeons for when there's no group to do a normal instance.

I normally dislike solo xp, but in Catacombs I had a great time wandering around the abandoned mines, making a map as I went, killing anything killable I came across.

 

[Escape]

I find making my char better fun - same way xping back in the days was getting your chars up the level for fun... Whole point of the game - otherwise you might as well play quake. Hunting for artifacts _is_ fun.... camping the same place for a scroll is a bit dull I'd have to agree but you could go on a dungeon crawl instead.... artifact xping you can do in groups now that it's by zone...

You have plenty of freedom, just you choose to ignore it because some of the things you could do with your freedom aren't "good enough" for you any more because you've been brainwashed into thinking the only thing worth playing for is level 50 in RvR. The game hasn't reduced the amount of things you can do - if anything there's too much to do now. Just the players have.

So you're still having fun XP'ing solo and taking your time to build your characters, that's good for you!

There're many more who've had it with all the repitition and want something more from the game. I know dozens of people who've quit and there're hundreds more. Have you noticed the drop in server population?

But, you will generalise them as elite RvR'ers(as you've done with myself oO) and good ridence to their fotm ways! So I can see your point when I think in simple terms.

Myself, I don't have the time to camp an artifact for 20hours straight. I don't have time to join an xp group, meet people who're talking about avril lavigne or some equally pathetic topic and see the group split when one guy dies. I play the game to fit in with my rl obligations, not the other way round. I've taken 4 chars to level 50 over the years, and I can say the quality of grouping has fallen drastically. Any future toons will be PL'd as I don't have the patience to join a group and see it fall apart 5 mins later. So you'll call me an elitist RvR'er... heh, ok.

Maybe playing Albion on Excalibur, you have enough Xp groups and all of your battlegrounds see activity. Log into Prydwen and tell me how populated the battlegrounds are. Normally I'll PM someone in Leirvik and they'll say "We're taking towers... there was a celt here 30mins ago"...

You've heard the saying "Too many chefs spoil the broth"... every patch is a chef. The game can still be fun, if you have the time to commit and after three years of heavily investing my time in the game, I'm not giving any more. I'll login, if something's happening I'll join, else I logout.

 

[Zede]

The 3 L50s I have were bascially all levelled in groups in the various alb dungeons, as I found it to easy to get groups ( Cleric/Earth Theurg / Ice Wiz)

Im now levelling a Sorc, who is now L36.

I must say Ive had a great time with a few people, usally just 2 or 3 in the group exploring alot of areas Id hardly touched in the past - for the first time last week I went to the "undead village" in the far north of the dales of dewey, found some nice orc camps in the s.e of aldland, generally exploring and getting nice xp camp bonuses

Its all relative. I was the happiest bunny alive whilst playing UO in the 90s, now its sadly lacking in a lot of areas, but at the time it was great. I guess if you want oddles of places to explore, go play EQII.

As far as I know, DAOC offers a unique experience with its RvR content, and I think after 6 months or so ALOT of WoW players will be back cause of ZzZ pve and crap RvR/PvP implementation - we shall see !

 

[Saggy]

As far as I know, DAOC offers a unique experience with its RvR content, and I think after 6 months or so ALOT of WoW players will be back cause of ZzZ pve and crap RvR/PvP implementation - we shall see !

Yes, I'm not putting much hope in WoW PvP so at the moment I'm rushing to get even one of my characters ToAed WoW wont be the game to leave Daoc for but it might offer something that Daoc doesn't making them a good pair to play, imo Oo

 

[Afuldan]

Move to a PvP server imo.

Making innocent bystanders suffer for a living while popping coins outta some punk 10 lvls under you like he's a GD pez dispenser is suprisingly relaxing.

Bling bling baby.

Grummur 50 sav mordred
Unfurg 50 sham morded
Pvenecro 50 necro mordred.

 

[eggy]

I think SI/TOA etc is absolutely brilliant. It's all about how you choose to play the game.

I love(d) levelling chars in decent groups. Making optimal setups, and trying new xp spots etc. TOA only gave more challenges, and for logical thinkers, it's a test of efficiency and teamwork.

Have had so much fun doing it, RVR is even more enjoyable now for me.

 

[Ilum]

I will virtually strangle people who say "play the game as you want to". Frankly, that's bullshit. I cba to elaborate though.

Roleplay on Prydwen? Maybe I should walk into a nursery and start talking politics aswell...

Honestly I wouldn't have such high hopes for a more mature player base in WoW

 

[Teslacoil]

Those are choices? I've not met a single person who levels artifacts, hunts for scrolls or MLxp for fun. Maybe you know these people, though I'm quite open-minded, I'd rather not meet them

"Back in the day" there was less content, but the game wasn't as limited. You could take any class, with any spec and join an XP group! There weren't any interviews before joining a lv25 group. Where to level? practically every zone was used and even the frontiers. Where to level now? Maybe DF if it's open, or grab a lv50 char and join a PL group. Thidranki has been out for a long time, even before SI. RvR and keeptakes since the start... and even for those any class/level would do.

You want to argue that players have more freedom now?

hmm well now you met one really.

i am and will suppose allways will be a PvE freak , i even have a template done for my thane that is purely PvE oriented and cost on it so far is aprox ~100P so yes i am a PvE g33k so hi matey now you met one

 

[chretien]

There's a lot of good comments in this thread by people on both sides of the fence regarding PvE.

In my opinion it boils down to this. DAoC is a game and you should play it like one. I find repetitively killing the same mobs over and over again incredibly boring and so I don't do it. I find staring at a random bit of Atlantis for hours on end waiting for an encounter to pop incredibly boring and so I don't do it. I find playing a stealther/solo character incredibly boring and so I don't do it.
People like to have a focus, a task or a clear path ahead of them. This can be anything from a quest, a ML raid, a keep take or simply to see how many RPs can be gained from camping bridges. Whatever people do in game, it's always more fun if there's a point to it. A clear target in sight where you can draw a line under your game play and say "I've achieved something".

Repetitively doing the same thing or - worse - doing nothing at all for long periods of time is not fun in a game and I think this is what Mythic had on their whiteboard for the early Catacombs design meetings. It's possible to get decent (read full group style exp in the current game) in a duo. Have a friend? You have a viable training group. Got your group? You can be fighting stuff that is tailored to your abilities very quickly. As Flim says, no more going to the best XP spot for your level to find it's all camped to the rafters. Less waiting, less getting to places and more actual playing.

PvE doesn't have to be a grind but it often is because people see the destination not the journey as the important thing. If you don't try and make the journey interesting then that's no-one's fault but your own. You can walk staring at your shoes and get to your destination faster but hate your walk to work, or you can take your time, explore, enjoy and arrive happier and more content.

 

[Flimgoblin]

So you'll call me an elitist RvR'er... heh, ok.

No I'd call you someone who's forgotten how to stop and smell the roses

I think chretien hit a very good point there though with the goal - theres a condition that a lot of people in my guild anyway suffer from (I know I do) called "50itis" - they get to 50 on their latest project and go "hrm what now?"

I've done it with all four of the 50s I've rolled - you find yourself logging in, staring at the character screen, bouncing around gothwaite harbour for an hour

Usually end up taking a week or two off the game doing other things - playing a random offline game, before I either start a new char or find something interesting to do with my 50 (e.g. decide RR3 4 or 5 would be a good aim - might decide to get Glamis to RR6 one of these years never know)

My latest 50 (heretic) only suffered from 50itis for all of a day.... Dinged 50 in a dungeon task, went "woohoo" in /gu, moped around a bit, went RvR, logged out. Next day I remembered "oh yeah, ToA stuff." and ran off to ToA to attempt the oceanus quests, try the easier artifacts (Harpy feather cloak is kinda fun to do ) or go RvR to try and kill the Vampiir that was attacking our keep (this was on Pendragon...). Might have just been delayed 50itis mind you since I got a similar effect at the end of the Catacombs beta.

When my merc dinged 50 my options were: go emain, roll a new alt.

I really can't agree with you that there's less choice in the game now...

Heck you didn't have the option of PLing a char to 50 so you can try something different in Rvr back in the old days anyway dinging 50 in under 20 days /played was almost unheard of.