Thane vs Infiltrator tes Logs (dueling et al)

[Solid]

K just read this ion WhineGN

No sight of whine and from Sarageths other posts he seems a sound enuff bloke, not a whiner, just telling things as they are and trying to help the TeamLeads.

This damage log was interesting, esp regarding SLAM vs Inf's
Granted no mentioned of each chars Realm Abilities which would have been useful (eg Dodger and MoP for infs and the resist and stats each had)

This is the kind of work we need from thpose YANKS to help some of the unbalanced classes (I mean negatively unbalanced - new way of saying gimped ) get some love to bring them up to par with other classes.

Fight logs of Thane vs Infil

Caution rather long post, but interesting if you have a vested interest in melee classes and assasin classes.

 

[)nick(]

*snip*

Don't get me wrong, i appreciate your effort getting these logs. Just wanted to point out some things.

The only log that is interesting to me is the last one. Everyone seems to think its the assassin class that is overpowered, not the buffs, and only the last log shows an unbuffed infil.

Let's see.

First comment: you let him do a free round because you mistakenly selected yourself as target. He got 2 free hits on you due to this.

[22:02:11] Ghosty attacks you with his sword!
[22:02:14] Ghosty attacks you with his sword!
[22:02:14] You target [Ghosty]

Net loss due to this: 212HP. You said earlier you have 1300 HP total. This is a significant setback, 16% of your total HP

Second comment: you are a thane. Why did you not use any dd spells on him during the fight? He did use a poison, after all. Before using IP, you did a total of 756 damage to ghosty. Judging from his point of death, he had between 942 and 1100 HP total. If the thane spells you didnt use caused 186 to 344 damage, you would have won without using IP.

Third comment: you claim that " I also got a luck slam
on him. "

The only lines in the log relating to slam:

[22:02:19] You prepare to perform a Slam!
[22:02:21] You are no longer preparing to use your Slam style!

<you clicked the slam button twice, cancelling the first attempt. Might have been the difference between win and loss>

[22:02:24] You prepare to perform a Slam!
[22:02:28] Ghosty evades your attack!

<he evaded the second attempt>

There are no more slam attempts. The claim that you only won barely EVEN after landing a slam is false.

Fourth comment: Is it just me or aren't you using any styles? He certainly is.

[22:02:17] Ghosty attacks you with his sword!
[22:02:17] You are hit for 141 damage.
[22:02:17] Your movement is slowed!

<the effect of garrotte. Highest-damage anytimer for a thrust infil>

[22:02:19] You prepare to perform a Slam!

This is the only line with "you prepare to perform" in the log.

What did you use your end for? Only thing i see in the log is ONE slam attempt(other one was cancelled)

Conclusion: A thane had to use IP to win a straight fight against an unbuffed infiltrator.
However:

- the thane did not use any styles
- the thane did not use any spells
- the thane allowed the infiltrator to get 2 free swings in.
- the infiltrator had a 20% melee relic bonus
- the infiltrator had a dodger 3 realm ability and used every tool available to him except crit strike.

Despite all of the above, if not for the IP the infiltrator would win the fight with only a sliver of health left.

Maybe i'm tired. Maybe i REALLY overlooked something. If so, i apologize. But from what i wrote above, it seems to me the infil SHOULD have won the fight(except for the IP)

Shar.

*endsnip*

Melee isn't gimped they just shouldn't be running around solo in RVR.

 

[Orin Askhammare]

Now show me something I didn't know

<waits impatiently for 1.53A patch notes to appear, most likely later today>

 

[Slinker]

Pretty interesting stuff , methinks "should I take my thane to 50 "
. Also saw one mention that the inf had Dodger 3 , but that was it with RA's

 

[Flimgoblin]

Hrm, I disagree with the 'melee aint gimped'

but that thane should have won that duel with ease...

PA means an infiltrator will kill a hybrid melee...
but bearing in mind an infiltrator is a melee/stealth hybrid and a thane is a melee/caster hybrid...

Be nice to see something similar against a warrior or something...

 

[Solid]

Large part of this log was dedicated to Slam and Shield styles, woth no tohit bonus and no 35% drop/quest shields and even no 35% crafted shields we got like -10% chance to hit slam from the outset, our ONLY long duration stun ability, and as you can see from the logs, the miss rate is ludicrous.

I made comments on that thread also, regarding spec, stats, buff stats, realm abilities, so lets hope they get answered, and yes some of these duels didint go down well, with cancel styles and lack of SC used.

Lets hope we get more info. I am showcasing this as this kind of work is what gets noticed by devs, they too will analyse and see if a log is worthy of attention, it may come to light its not.

Nicho people whos class are undernbalanced need to do this kind of work to get noticed as Ahining is not the answer, at least give him credit of going about things the right way.

 

[Solid]

btw whats with the "you" in your *snip*?

I dont get it? I assume this is your post and not a quote as that thread only has a reply from me atm, why are you adressing this post of yours to "you" when said "you" doesnt even play in EU or bbrowse on the forums, least you could have done was replied to the post on IGN as you comments are extremely valid.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Hrm... I think it's a shame that the whole shield skill is distilled down to 'slam' and nothing else

noone seems to want to use the after-block ones (maybe because they never block... or they throw away their shield after they slam, hence never block)

apparently a nice technique is to put engage on , block a few styles, then whack befuddler on them

 

[Solid]

lol befuddler? whats that? /em very confused

 

[Danya]

Or get 50 shield and use brutalize. Much the same as slam but comes off a block and is low fatigue... Stick engage on, get a block and *wham*.

 

[Solid]

the *wham* is realising the only class that has Brutalize is the 1H/Shield Armsman/Hero (rare as hell) and the Warrior (all Warriors get Brutalize if they know whats good for em)

 

[ivan_tribbiani]

Yup thats the reality.... unbuffed combat is way too long with RAs FA and IP

Also shows what kinda damage we Infils do vs 16% thrust resist... not sure if its maxed.... what thrust resist you got Solid ?

Very informative log as well good thing the guy didnt stop with just plain duelling.

 

[Flimgoblin]

aha brutalize duh teach me to read the style list before I post...

Befuddler is the slash style follow up to riposte...
so engage, block, riposte, befuddler also works

Also the evade, dragonfang*10 tactic can be used too...

block, brutalize, riposte, riposte, riposte

 

[Solid]

Ivan I got only 24% Thrust resist, so effective 9% after factoring in -15% from chain armour.

I would dearly like to cap it, but can only do so at the expense of 18hp to gain an extra 2%.

TBH I think all tanks should ONLY worry about resist once they are near to their hp cap.

and using resist items instead of available hp items is a bad idea as 2% damage reduction to a specific resist is not as great as say 20+ hp whihc means extra ability to soak up damage from ALL types.

Ideal situation would be 25% + Thrust, 15%+ Slash, 20%_ crush and capped hp. I aint too far off that, lets hope some good Legion drops and the Dragon Hauberk come my way soon

 

[Flimgoblin]

Hrm, at 200 points damage per hit...
your 2% damage resistance equates to 4 damage...

after 5 hits you've saved 20 points damage... which is more than the 18 hp

up till then the hp thing is better

 

[Solid]

Not to worry I am 3 hp off my cap, 24% Thrust, 17% Slash, 18% Crush, and I find its as goo as I can get until the Glacier Giant Cloak finds its way onto my back

Pity I have to use a small shield for the thrust resist, but hey, the day I get slam means I will use loads less end and have a much lower delay between Slamming ang kciking the monkey shit outta mu Opponent

Oh happy days ahead!!!

 

[Meatballs]

He tried using slam on a fully buffed infiltrator when they was fully buffed. But buffs dont affect your chace to hit, they do however affect the chance to evade. Thats why he missed the slam 7 times in a row

 

[ivan_tribbiani]

As for +26% thrust resist .... its weird i know... but i had a situation where i couldnt hurt the guy<mabe he was buffed or somethin?> :

You hit XXX for 59 (-21) damage

Or something quite close to that, was stunned by this.. if it wasnt for poisons then i would have been well dead.

PS:

No Way !!!!!!!

My favourite magician made Moderator !!!!

Huzzah

 

[Solid]

Tribb consider some classes have natural bonus or are neutral to Thrust, aka all Hibbie armour is nuetral to Thrust, Midde Studded has 5% bonus, Middie Leather has 15% bonus.

Only people that really hate Thust assasins are Chain wearers as they are vulnerable to Thrust. Even with 24% my effective resist is onlym 9% becos of the penalty from chain

 

[ivan_tribbiani]

Aye but that was with a Thane ? if im not mistaken in Uppland, named Kolja <if hes a thane or warrior im not exactly sure>

 

[Jexa]

Originally posted by Solid
Only people that really hate Thust assasins are Chain wearers as they are vulnerable to Thrust. Even with 24% my effective resist is onlym 9% becos of the penalty from chain

So many Mid classes wear chain, and I guess thats why some classes can specialise in thrust. A lot of middie classes use hammers, and I guess thats why some people are weak against it.

Surely that's a bit messed up, it ends up in the situation where the main mid armour is HIGHLY succeptible to a lot of attacks, whereas the minority alb armour is.

Don't know how Hibernia would fit in the comparison...

Anyone want to explain, I'm not so good with all the mechanics of DAoC

 

[Danya]

A lot of mids use hammers because plate and scale are both crush weak (as in -10%), so using crush makes a lot of sense for mids. Chain is neutral to crush too so it's a good all round choice.

Lots of people take thrust because of the middie chain wearers. Also rogues on get thrust and slash, and presently slash is useless on most targets due to the unbalanced armour tables.

 

[Jexa]

Oki doki thankyou Mistur / Missus Danyanettie

 

[Solid]

go look up the new armour resist tables (posted on these forums earlier today)

You will notice

ALL albion armour is nuetral to SLASH
ALL Midgardian armour is nuetral to CRUSH
ALL Hibernian armour is nuetral to THRUST

notice a trend? goood check out rest of it in a post in BW somewhere

I think new armour resist tables are great, well balanced.

 

[Danya]

Welcome sweetie