System Instability

C

CptDoom

Guest
Hi guys,

I have a really annoying problem with my pc. Best start off with specs.

XP 1800+
Epox 8k7A Mobo
256 DDR 2100 (samsung)
256 DDR 2700 (crucial)
60 Gig Seagate Barracuda IV
20 Gig Fujitsu
Creative Audigy 1 OEM
Creative Ti4400

Running Xp Corp Ed

Basically my pc reboots itself when i play a few games (mainly RTCW:ET, UT2k3 and Raven Shield. This used to happen on AC2 which i have since stopped playing (coz its shit) and forgotten about my problems with that game nailing it down to shoddy game.

I cant play a fps with RTCW:ET engines or above for more than 20 minutes without the thing rebooting on me which is highly annoying, bizarrely enough BF42 RTR works fine with no problems.

I have the latest 4in1's, latest detonators and latest Audigy drivers, i thought it may be the way my cpu was mounted, thermal paste wearing out etc etc, so i cleaned that and stuck some arctic silver on it. This has dropped the temp of my cpu by 10 degrees (when game rebooted my pc bios said 66 degrees most of the time) yet even now at the lower temp it makes no difference. I have just ordered one of these...

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Abit.html 2nd one down

But id really like to try and solve this to see whether it may be a mother board fault or whatever it is.

Please help, its starting to frustrate the hell out of me :D
 
S

Scooba Da Bass

Guest
Check the event log, see if it has any errors prior to the reboot. I'd guess it's a heat thing though, maybe your graphics card is overheating.
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
I had thought that, hence i cleaned out the fan etcetc too, is there a way of cooling it down perhaps? Underclocking it :s?

Actually thinking about it, its happened recently just from ripping a cd, that was during the heat and before i cleaned the cpu out

Oh, and where is the event log? :p
 
K

kameleon

Guest
memory problem tbh


try just using one stick at a time.

and try memtest to check your RAM out



Event viewer is in control panel>administration tools
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
Nothing related in event manager as far as i can see :(
 
P

PR.

Guest
Start > Control Panel > System > Advanced tab > Startup and Recovery > Untick Automatically Restart

Then next time it crashes you will get a BSOD giving information on what actually happened

Good luck
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
Well i ticked the option in System and i still get a reboot, screen doesnt freeze just cuts out and bios starts up.

Xane, this is something else i been meaning to sort out, i cant actually tell what psu it is, ill see if i can work it out now

Oh im thick :), its a Eagle DR-A300ATX 300W. Maybe time to go get a 400

The fact i dont even get a BSOD would suggest its power related?
 
X

xane

Guest
You can get a dirt cheap 400W PSU and it's probably the easiest component to change, worth a try.
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
Done, got a Mercury 400 Watt jobbie for £32.50 from the local rip off merchant. Ill be back.




:p
 
V

vofflujarnid

Guest
Start --> Programs --> Accessories --> System Tools --> System Information. Then: Hardware Resources --> IRQs and see if there's an IRQ conflict with your graphics card. It could be conflicting with your network card, ADSL/cable/modem etc. It's usually at IRQ 9 or 11.

If you have an IRQ conflict, you can try to move the card that is conflicting with your graphic card, to another PCI slot in your computer.

Be warned that this method is discoured by Microsoft.

If that doesn't work, you can go: Device Manager - Computer - Advanced Configuration and power interface (ACPI) - right click and go properties - driver - update driver - install from a list or a specific location - Don't search. I will choose the driver to install and then choose Standar PC. At this point windows will try to reinstall all devices on your system so install all drivers you are prompted. With all your drivers re-installed, take a look in hardware manager - and every device should have it's own IRQ.

Regards.
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
God Damnit. :(

I needed a new psu anyway so im not pissed off about that, id just like to be able to play ET for more than 5 minutes at a time.

I think scooba may be right, may have to find a way of cooling my vid card
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
Or this is the problem, the circled chip on the picture has a fan on it, the fan on it (just noticed) starts up every 5 boots :| i have given it a clean, the bearings are buggered as it spins when i give it a little nudge.

What is that chip anyway?

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ninjap/ep-8k7a.gif

Even with that fan spinning its knackered
 
V

vofflujarnid

Guest
I think that's AMD 761 686B chipset you have there. Btw, your IRQ settings look fine to me, so you can rule IRQ conflict out of the way. Sorry I can't be of more help, mate.
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
Thanks anyway, ill just wait for the mobo unless anyone else has any ideas? =p

Thanks all in fact, im going for a beer
 
M

Mr.Monkey

Guest
Resets tend to be heat related. When a cpu gets too hot it starts making mistakes in it's calculations, and this often causes the "sudden reset" thingy.

So might be a plan to look at the cpu temp.
www.hmonitor.com
www.almico.com/speedfan.php

You can set these to log temp of your cpu to a file, so when you crash, you open the file and see if it's getting really hot before it crashes.

To see if it is cpu related, run a proggy like Prime95 www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm and run it. It'll max the cpu load for a while, see if that causes it to crash after a bit.

It could also be memory overheating (harder to check as there are not usually any temp mons on memory).

Or it could be your gfx card overheating. Check creatives homepage for any softeware that allows you to monitor the temperature of your gfx card. They prolly have some.


Give it a go.
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
Originally posted by Mr.Monkey
Resets tend to be heat related. When a cpu gets too hot it starts making mistakes in it's calculations, and this often causes the "sudden reset" thingy.


To see if it is cpu related, run a proggy like Prime95 www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm and run it. It'll max the cpu load for a while, see if that causes it to crash after a bit.




Give it a go.
Click to expand...

I just did, prime 65 said the first test would take an hour to complete, 3 minutes later my pc reboots, upon boot up i load it again and says waiting 22 seconds for bootup to complete and then after the 22 seconds my pc resets again.

What can i do? :( I was hoping it was my motherboard but have tried a few other games now and even they reboot my pc, Warrior Kings Battles for example
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
My mistake, i have removed the 256 unbranded ram (i thought it was samsung) and have just managed an hour of ET and i even got to shut the game down as opposed to pc doing it for me =]

Just tried warrior kings and it works flawlessly too, i am going to try different ram combinations as i have a stick of 128 samsung ram here to play with, this seems to be the problem that i am having

Is the fact that i am using 2100 and 2700 ram together causing the problem, Kameleon, seems YOU were right :)

That Prime 95 is even doing its thing now and working just fine
 
Deebs

Deebs

Chief Arsewipe
Staff member
Moderator
FH Subscriber
Joined
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Messages
9,076,989
Oooh

I have the exact same fault. It only started happening about 3 months ago, I thought it was down to the shitty motherboard but I know I have a mismatch of memory in this particular pc.

Time to open da bitch up and rip her guts out.

Out of interest CptDoom, did you run memtest and did it find any errors?
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
Unfortunately im back to square one, i have tried every combination of ram that i can in both slots and reversed. The prime 95 test makes my pc reboot but i am now playing ET without it crashing on the 256 ddr 2700 crucial stick.. Its confusing the hell out of me.

The fact that i can play games at least is good but in 256 meg ram only is a little slow to start with, the test itself is just an annoying issue as it is showing my system as instable

The mem test i am going to run the minute i find a floppy under the rubble
 
V

vofflujarnid

Guest
I've got this gut feeling that this is chipset + processor related. If you are experiencing "infinite loops" and sudden computer restarts when playing game, this could be Rx55 memory register related.

The RX55 register's official name and function is Memory Write Queue (MWQ) timer. The MWQ timer is actually a timing device included in the memory host controller to prevent write data being held in the memory queue too long. After the data has been in the queue too long it times out. This timed out data is then given a higher write request priority. Now that might sound nice – a bit of extra performance BUT the procedure fails when overloaded. 3D games and Win XP put too much load on the memory queuing timer procedure. The nVidia new driver exaggerates the problem even more as the driver enables nVidia cards to use even more memory than previous driver versions.
( There was a patch which would close the memory register but I can't remember where I downloaded it ).

So in a nutshell it’s a memory timing problem that only happens when the RX55 register is opened. Some motherboard manufacturers have already released new BIOS that have the register closed. You might want to try these:

  • Set your memory settings in the BIOS less aggressively and test.
  • Make sure you have an adequate power supply.
  • Update you BIOS and test.
  • Disable or enable AGP fast writes and test. (This has worked for some people)

Hope this helps.
Cheers
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
I ran mem test and it seems fine with both sticks, im assuming i let it complete as it seemed to be cycling over and over doing the same test again and again for an hour.

Also updated the bios (there was indeed a new bios available) and i am now going to check rtcw:et again with (gasp) both mem sticks

Wow, a whole 10 seconds or so of play
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
And also crashing on the 256 setup now. I think ive covered everything now.....
 
M

Mr.Monkey

Guest
Originally posted by CptDoom
And also crashing on the 256 setup now. I think ive covered everything now.....
Click to expand...
Ok, so we know it's caused by the cpu being uder load.
We also know you've mismatched the ram (always a bad thing, but sometimes it works. I buy ram in matched pairs, otherwise things can get complicated)

So is your system stable with only one stick? Doesn't matter which one.

p95 can crash out if there is overheating or a memory problem.
If it's stable with one memory stick, we can assume the cpu is not the problem.

(basically your last post confused me a little, you said the system was stable with one stick but now it isn't?)
 
C

CptDoom

Guest
yes, thats right, now it isnt =], whether i was getting a cool breeze thru my room at the point where it worked for more than 15 cycles of the prime 95 test i dont know, but its just crashing randomly at different time spans even with just the single stick
 
M

Mr.Monkey

Guest
If it's crashing with either stick, then it's prolly your cpu overheating imo.

Use one of those monitoring proggies, and take a note of the cpu temp when windows is running, and not really doing anything.

Then play a game, and when your computer resets, go into the bios and check the temperature in the PC Health sections (r whatever its called).

Or run the temperature monitor and run p95, and watch how high it gets before it crashes.

If it's more than 15C more than idle it could well be overheating, in which case you may need to refit your heatsink, or get a new fan etc.

What heatsink/fan do you have?

You mentioned that the fan on the small chip near the cpu doesn't always work? Replace it, as thats the (can't remember exact name at the moment, something like norwich.) chipset dohicky that also needs to be kept cool. I'd replace the fan if it is not starting up correctly.

The monitors should be able to give you the chip temperature of both your cpu and the chipset.
Creative may have a heat sensor for your gfx card.

I'd spend some time playing with it as it is most likely heat, if you have updated all the drivers and bios.
 
W

Will

Guest
norwich = northbridge.

Other than that, good advice.:)
 
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