Summer Inc

[Esselinithia]

June is the start of another period with traditionally low population, and we have about 2 weeks before the start of it. The traiditional low pop times are low pop for two reasons: People have reasons to be away from home. And even when they are home they spend a bit less time in front of the computer.

I think this population drop is to be excepted and accepted.

But looks like the recent population drops had one motive: people had a good RL reason to be away from te game (at traditionally low times) but had very little reason to start playing again. So the game haven't recovered from last summers drop, haven't recovered from the low times in the winter, etc.

((This is why I said: GOA made a mistake when pointed to traditionaly low time in december, they had a reason to compare to last year, and they had reasons to see people haven't came back after last summer))

I think it would be hard to fix population problem in the summer (another low time, but doable), it is about impossible to do before summer (not enough time, and it might be a bit late after summer.

With a lot of people focusing on dueling rings, etc. now, and some people leaving for summer with not so good memories, it can influence the chances for recovery.

What do you think: what will we see after the summer?

 

[Coldbeard]

Don't think theres anything to see at all, and I hardly think there is anything to see atm either.

 

[Punishment]

Im not holding my breath

 

[rampant]

Im not holding my breath

that could be life-threatening....

 

[Congax]

that could be life-threatening....

No, it would be life threatening if he was infact holding his breath

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

With a lot of people focusing on dueling rings, etc. now, and some people leaving for summer with not so good memories, it can influence the chances for recovery.

What do you think: what will we see after the summer?

I hope I don't see you around after the summer, your cluess carebear bullshit is killing my brain cells. I don't know who you are in the game but this is how it happens:

- Two guys having a fight at Crauchon area, Donkeh comes along alone or with his mates and kills one or both.

- Several guys fighting at Crauchon area, including all kinds of Albs, Mids, Hibs and Donkeh comes along alone or with his mates and gets killed this time while Hibs watch him die. He calls for the help of a GM because he can't get it his way.

And since you, Donkeh and Requiel are in the same league of carebears I have to read this utter bullshit about dueling rings where it's most of the time just too many Hibs there at Crauchon and there is no point for them to chain any incoming Albs or Mids who would simply log. Most of the time I don't see any rezzers there as well and if I see some I try to kill them first.

 

[Esselinithia]

I know you left CS like many clueless morons because even the easiest bots killed you all the time, but if you think soloing and being rude and trying (successfully in many cases) to scare away most of the community and destroy the server is normal, maybe you should go back.

Maybe there are more rude morons and some easier bots there by now? Or you lack the skills even for that?

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I know you left CS like many clueless morons because even the easiest bots killed you all the time, but if you think soloing and being rude and trying (successfully in many cases) to scare away most of the community and destroy the server is normal, maybe you should go back.

Maybe there are more rude morons and some easier bots there by now? Or you lack the skills even for that?

I played EVE Online, Ravenshield and Diablo 2 before.

If you think I have been rude to anyone in the game and destroyed the game for the person, then post a picture with the corresponding PMs or stfu! I play all kinds of ways, solo, in a duo, group or in a zerg but I am not that carebear that calls a guy trying to solo a bit a cheater or someone who kills the server.

 

[Esselinithia]

1st: carebears are people who normally don't PVP, so carebears see RvR from a neutral point of view. Hear what happens and judge reasons of both sides without any prejudice or preference. Why? Because all they (we, since my favorite server is Gaheris) want to do is PVE.

2nd: When it is explained what IS cheating, and that people who do that are cheaters, and then you come "I am cheating but I am no cheater since I just follow my code of honor, but I throw insults, abuse and want everyone to go away" and then in your next post you say you never do such abusive stuff that proves one thing pretty well: You are an abusive cheater.

Don't be one and you won't be called a cheater. It is simple as that.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

1st: carebears are people who normally don't PVP, so carebears see RvR from a neutral point of view. Hear what happens and judge reasons of both sides without any prejudice or preference. Why? Because all they (we, since my favorite server is Gaheris) want to do is PVE.

2nd: When it is explained what IS cheating, and that people who do that are cheaters, and then you come "I am cheating but I am no cheater since I just follow my code of honor, but I throw insults, abuse and want everyone to go away" and then in your next post you say you never do such abusive stuff that proves one thing pretty well: You are an abusive cheater.

Don't be one and you won't be called a cheater. It is simple as that.

Don't use the quaotation marks like that, I never said such a thing.

Stick to Gaheris, says it all.

 

[Golena]

1st: carebears are people who normally don't PVP, so carebears see RvR from a neutral point of view. Hear what happens and judge reasons of both sides without any prejudice or preference. Why? Because all they (we, since my favorite server is Gaheris) want to do is PVE.

That is the most pathetic argument I have ever seen, and having viewed freddy's for a while that's an achievement. Carebears see PvP from a neutral point of view... How can they since they arn't there!! they are PvE'ing stuff. Judging stuff without predudice isn't something that happens just because your a PvE'er. Get a clue!!
Most PvE'ers want to go to RvR, get enough realm points for their PvE activites then go back to that. That's a VERY biased and one sided view from someone who wants as much reward with the least challenge possible. That's normally the view that a PvE'er views when trying to farm mobs as well.

2nd: When it is explained what IS cheating, and that people who do that are cheaters, and then you come "I am cheating but I am no cheater since I just follow my code of honor, but I throw insults, abuse and want everyone to go away" and then in your next post you say you never do such abusive stuff that proves one thing pretty well: You are an abusive cheater.

Most people's "code of conduct" is very much in line with what GOA has been claiming is the rules since day 1. Choosing not to help you out in a fight it their own descision. It's not cheating.. Your throwing just as much abusive stuff Manisch's way about random untrue CS crap, so I guess your an abusive cheater as well. In fact you seem to have a fairly good grasp on cheats in several games.. I assume this is because you are using them!

Start taking your own advice maybe?

Don't be one and you won't be called a cheater. It is simple as that.

 

[Imgormiel]

Don't use the quaotation marks like that, I never said such a thing.

Stick to Gaheris, says it all.

lies, damned lies, and media hmmmmmm...........(no stats, that quote was old before even I was born )

 

[Imgormiel]

That is the most pathetic argument I have ever seen, and having viewed freddy's for a while that's an achievement. Carebears see PvP from a neutral point of view... How can they since they arn't there!! they are PvE'ing stuff. Judging stuff without predudice isn't something that happens just because your a PvE'er. Get a clue!!
Most PvE'ers want to go to RvR, get enough realm points for their PvE activites then go back to that. That's a VERY biased and one sided view from someone who wants as much reward with the least challenge possible. That's normally the view that a PvE'er views when trying to farm mobs as well.



Most people's "code of conduct" is very much in line with what GOA has been claiming is the rules since day 1. Choosing not to help you out in a fight it their own descision. It's not cheating.. Your throwing just as much abusive stuff Manisch's way about random untrue CS crap, so I guess your an abusive cheater as well. In fact you seem to have a fairly good grasp on cheats in several games.. I assume this is because you are using them!

Start taking your own advice maybe?

Why in the hell are you talking about some meretricious nonsense is beyond me, just look at wtf u just said rofl!!

 

[Esselinithia]

Golena: PVE people on Gaheris would have trouble with going to RvR for RP, since even in frontiers you don't have RvR on gaheris. But well... some nice seals drop. So gaheris people have a perfectly neutral view of RvR.

And it is simple:
When doing X is cheating.
People say: People who do X are cheaters.
Manisch, you, etc. say: It said YOU are cheaters.

That means you both decided People who does X (which is cheating) is YOU. You identified yourself with it cheating, you can't justify it with your made up rules.

 

[Golena]

Golena: PVE people on Gaheris would have trouble with going to RvR for RP, since even in frontiers you don't have RvR on gaheris. But well... some nice seals drop. So gaheris people have a perfectly neutral view of RvR.

You don't have a neutral point of RvR. You have an unexperienced view of RvR. It's like trying to claim that someone who has no idea about what football is is better equipped to tell if someone is offside than a professional footballer because the footballer is biased. Knowing the rules of the offside rule is irrelevant ofc, that actually helps to make a good descision.

And it is simple:
When doing X is cheating.
People say: People who do X are cheaters.
Manisch, you, etc. say: It said YOU are cheaters.

That means you both decided People who does X (which is cheating) is YOU. You identified yourself with it cheating, you can't justify it with your made up rules.

So since you play on a PvE server then you have no idea what's actually happening, you've never met any of the people involved, but apparently they are cheaters.
You don't appear to know what the rules are in the first place.
You seem to have no grasp of what "made up rules" have been made or who's making them.
Yet you are in a perfect position to be judge jury and executioner.

The so called made up rules that are being refered to here are completely within the rules of the game. It's additional rules, self enforced and not enforced on others, that are being argued against.
No-one is arguing that people should be able to stand around with bots and RP farm, which is what is cheating. Yet you keep calling people cheaters for wanting to do something other than this.

Maybe stick to subjects of which you know something about?

 

[Esselinithia]

Golena: Interestingly enough Requiel and many involved parties say such dueling rings are illegal

 

[Golena]

Golena: Interestingly enough Requiel and many involved parties say such dueling rings are illegal

And there's the problem..

What dueling rings...

Requiel has also said that soloing in a small area as long as it doesn't turn into lots of people just standing about watching isn't illegal. That's what was claimed to be happening when the GM's stepped in.

What actually happened is the GM's said X is legal. Y is illegal.
People then claimed they did X and the GM's stepped in.
If they were actually doing Y then fair enough.
You then came here and claimed everyone doing X or Y, whether they were there or not during the incident was a cheater.

See the problem with your "the whole world is cheats" argument yet?

If you belive the reports (and i'm always at least semi sceptical since I wasn't there myself) there was 4 people. 1 alb and 3 hibs (none of which were a rezzer). The GM stepped in because only one of the hibs was trying to kill the alb, instead of just zerging him in 3 seconds and making it no challenge for anyone concerned. It hardly sounds like a dueling ring of people standing around watching and rezzing up which was deemed illegal now does it?

 

[kivik]

Golena: Interestingly enough Requiel and many involved parties say such dueling rings are illegal

Read my signature, understand it's time...





...









to just fucking accept it you fucking idiot.


god damn.

 

[scorge]

I know you left CS like many clueless morons because even the easiest bots killed you all the time, but if you think soloing and being rude and trying (successfully in many cases) to scare away most of the community and destroy the server is normal, maybe you should go back.

i like to think GOA have more influence over the server populatrion than Manisch Depressiv....

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I have every confidence that the organisers of such things will make sure that after this year's summer we will have autumn.

 

[Olvoair]

Golena: PVE people on Gaheris would have trouble with going to RvR for RP, since even in frontiers you don't have RvR on gaheris. But well... some nice seals drop. So gaheris people have a perfectly neutral view of RvR.

And it is simple:
When doing X is cheating.
People say: People who do X are cheaters.
Manisch, you, etc. say: It said YOU are cheaters.

That means you both decided People who does X (which is cheating) is YOU. You identified yourself with it cheating, you can't justify it with your made up rules.

lol u good at bitter.

 

[Esselinithia]

kivik: First, your style and use of new data as something should have been considered before shows how mature and intelligent you are. Like a newborn cockroach.

Again: They broke the rules? Yes they did. They whine if their ring gets disbanded? Yes it is.

While you can name it many things, and Requiel can name it many things, it doesn't make dueling rings right. And doesn't make RP farming for unfair advantages right.

THat is a point. That you do something that is against the rules. If it is just against the rules and kills the game, and shouldn't considered as cheating officially since the intent of it isn't to cheat, and GOA wants to keep subscribers so they can't be called on actions that doesn't make it right.

Got it?

Also the core argzment still says:
If I say: People who do X are cheaters, because X is cheating.

Then if you, or manisch react with: We done X which is cheating so we know it is about us, but we aren't cheaters...

Then the answer is still the same: If you don't cheat you aren't a cheater.
If you do, and recognize yourself from it (say you are defined by cheating) then you are a cheater.

A single dueling ring where no direct cheating was proven (with intent of cheating) doesn't change that.

If one say: People who cheat are cheater.
And ask why he is called a cheater?
That means one thing: He identify himself with the "people who cheat" part.

RP farming, dueling etc. is breaking rules and gaining unfair advantage.

 

[Esselinithia]

And there's the problem..

What dueling rings...

Requiel has also said that soloing in a small area as long as it doesn't turn into lots of people just standing about watching isn't illegal. That's what was claimed to be happening when the GM's stepped in.

No, it isn't the problem, and isn't a dueling ring either.

What is the difference? According to original reports: There were repeated fights at exact same spot and people who watched it.

So it started to turn into lots of people just standing and watching, while a spot became a place for repeated duels with exaact time and date known to all sides, where you don't have to look for enemy, etc.

And the difference is here.

As long as it doesn't progress further it is just starting up like a dueling ring, starting to get organized, Requiel will disband it, since that given meeting is still spontaneous, but it is the only way to stop it from becoming an organized rp farm event. It isn't cheating, it isn't illegal, but it gets disbanded when it is noted and starts to become a dueling ring.

When it is formed into a full dueling ring, when more people arrive, you get shorter turns, less looking for fights, more people watching, more reasources, etc. you start getting unfair advantages. For a while it is breaking the rules and illegal, but since most just come for 1-2 fun fights it isn't cheating still.

The moment it turns into problem, where people decide: So much more RP here than by looking for fight, rezzers are ready, they get some free RP without risk, I get RP without running, some are watching, we claim the area off limits to everyone else... That is where both destructive behavior and unfair advantage is added to the picture.

I see no problem with the 1st scenario, as long as it isn't followed by abuse.
I see some problems with the 2nd scenario, but as long as it is disbanded in time it is not a problem.
I see severe problems with the 3rd scenario, both for abuse, and for unfair advantage. And I see severe problems with the people who say, they can only support their RP gains with the 3rd way, so they have to relly on unfair advantage and use it on regular basis. This is where it becomes cheating. Where your whole tactics for gaining RP is built on illegal activities and unfair advantages.

Like I said: The game isn't built to support this behavior, if it supports or encourages it, it is a bug. You can live with the bug, and even have some benefits from it. But repeatedly exploiting the same bug IS cheating.

The 4 people in this dueling ring was just abusive, and wanted to progress further. Like I said: People who were ready to move on, and wanted to disband it before it turns to something illegal lose nothing from guards, and it is an ok event for them.

The problem is for the more people who came and said they can't play without organized dueling rings, because they can't play without the extra RP. The current meeting isn't progressed to cheating, and people didn't ran to the place for increased RP. But it would progress that far if Requiel wouldn't interfere.

And since the meeting wasn't cheating but not within rules, it gets disbanded when it gets out of hand, but before that who cares for a few solo fights.

See the difference between the 3 scenarios and how they progress from one to other? Depending on the 3rd scenario is a big problem, ending up in the first? No problem at all as long as you accept: people might add, and GMs might disband it. The 2nd one is somewhere between the two.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Perfectly written nonsense.

 

[kivik]

See the difference between the 3 scenarios and how they progress from one to other? Depending on the 3rd scenario is a big problem, ending up in the first? No problem at all as long as you accept: people might add, and GMs might disband it. The 2nd one is somewhere between the two.

Yes, but what's up with the 'progress' to cheating? Seriously I've never ever seen a duel circle 'progress to the 3rd scenario' where ressers has been used, 'might' be because everyone knows it's cheating and wouldn't do it in public. Usually some RP-whores got there and people logged or it simply went on at the '1st or 2nd scenario' until people got bored.

Being abusive shouldn't make the dueling circle itself 'cheating' or against the rules. Report person, person gets banned/suspended, problem solved.

I accept people to add no matter what scenario the duel circle is in, but I wouldn't accept a GM to interfere unless it's in the 3rd scenario and resurrecters are being used.

Oh and what Manisch said.

 

[Esselinithia]

Since even 2nd scenario is against the rules technically but since no unfair advantage and no intent to get it, I think it is good time for GM to interfere.

And how a rezzer comes? He comes like rest of people, sees it as nice, stops by to watch. And soon we see the next step, this is why GOA should stop at stage 2. But we will see how the new GMs will enforce rules, as you see, Requiel left. Xalin left.

 

[Tip]

Or..

Sneak in with a few stealth classes, PA a couple of enemys, everyone starts fighting each other, use vanish and watch the fight while chuckling to yourself, wait a bit till everyone is low on health, finish off whats left.

and that has actually happened