summary + some reply to c0ngo's thread

[AoE HoE]

After wasting time reading through congo's post i've decided to make a new one to make it easier for other people the read though his post.

Facts: In Barrows Advisor Room if you nuke the wizards from upstairs they will try to nuke you first but if you keep nuking them they will stop attempting to nuke you and try to run and melee you.

Problem: There seems to be an pointer algorithm fault as the mobs don't seem to be able to climb up the stairs and engage.

Story so far...

c0ngo bi*ching about people using the place because of the decent amount of xping gained from the spot and has reported the problem + probably any body he see using the method to gain xp such way to GOA.


I'm just going to highlight some intresting comments + stuff

From rule of conduct:

Players undertake not to make use of any bug, not to use any undocumented functions and not to exploit any possible design faults. Players also undertake to notify the presence of any bugs, undocumented functions or design faults they may discover to GOA personnel as soon as possible.


(Personally i think that's a pile of crap, why the hell did they publish a game if they know they have 'possible design faults'. Then they trying to recruit the players to do their dirty work for them by saying 'Players also undertake to notify the presence of any bugs, undocumented functions or design faults they may discover to GOA personnel as soon as possible.' wtf!!! If Microsoft has a bug with Windows operating system they not going to say 'User are being irresponsible with using our software please report all hackers', no....that would be childish. what Microsoft tend to do is go about and make a patch to solve the problem, or at least trying to... )

and here is someone who's got a brain and thought about it..

quote 'Cerverloc'

This is not cheating. This is playing a bugged game. We should get money back instead of being banned. Someone said it very well. Im not using a bugged bow, im playing a bugged game. He is right.

Its total amazement how Mythic/GOA points blaming fingers for people using tricks. Instead of investigating all those who abuse your sucky bugs, go investigate how to solve these bugs so no-one can cheat. Fix the game!!!

I feel sick about this. People here are just trying to get others banned. What is this??? WW2 ?? Where people betrayed you to the germans.

I never abused or exploited but ive seen many people do it in various ways and on all realms. However I don't feel the urge to send e-mails to GOA and smiling/partying when they ban people.

My 2 cents.

also

quote 'old.Wildfire'

now no-one can really use the room at all, spawn + adds + no safe areas = impossible to exp solo

(It seems they have tried to solve the problem by indirect methods. So now you can't exp solo, therefor you don't get that much xp! so it's indirectly amended)


quote 'congo'

Cherating is cheating whether it's for XP or RP what's the differance ?

(there is a difference, XP u gain from killing mobs, RP u gain from killing players. Killing players = piss other people off, Killing mobs = wasting your own time, Although i do agree with the 'Cherating = Cheating' bit though.)


quote 'congo'

Trust me I can kill any char RvR with my Cleric quicker than you can with Wedge, or the Infs or Scout's u've tried.

(that's just amusing)


quote 'congo'

And if u've seen peole abusing bug/exploiting them the why haven't you reported them, it's people like you that mean these bugs still exist. If Mythic/GOA don't know it's going on how are they supposed 2 fix it !!!!!!!

(because we have better things to do other than get jealous + bi*ching, and what do you think we pay our subscription fee for?)

quote 'congo'

Anyone in Lyon will see loads of death messages from people killed by tree and gobbo chains but u won't see any of these cheats dying from wizzies cause the Wizzies etc NEVER get to them to melee !!!

(wiz mob supposed to nuke not to come in melee. wouldn't it be wrong if you were a wizard and you go and hit a yellow con for 300+ in melee?)


and finally

quote ' Alrindel'

So, just to make perfectly sure I understand exactly what you are saying, your position is that reporting cheaters in a game to the administrators is morally the same thing as denouncing Jews in hiding and resistance fighters to the Gestapo in Europe during the Nazi occupation.

I want to make sure there's no misunderstanding and that's really what you meant to say, because frankly I think you deserve some sort of recognition for the stupidest post in the history of online gaming. Maybe a small trophy, or some sort of commemorative hat.


so.... here we have it.... spent some pointless minutes in writing this post.... conclusion....

1) some people have way too much time bi*ching about things that are not the player's fault
2) that bug is indirectly amended
3) Albion lost one decent xp spot (i'm sure hibs+mids are sniggering)
4) you have wasted 5-10 mins of your time reading this crap that i'm sure you will find to be recylced in the future or perhaps you have seen in the past.


I'm just bored with faggots.

 

[Beo]

Well, cheaters are to be penalized. Congo is right in this. Why argue? MMORPG's are, by default, constantly evolving, and therefore there will be bugs to abuse at some time. This can't be avoided to 100%.

Anyone using the bug should be banned, as is the policy, and the only way to do it, unless you like it Diablo2-style (read: 10-years-old-style).

-- Beodin the Paladin
< Testament of Sangreal >

 

[Cerverloc]

Wow, reading my reply again. That was one powerful reply. Ouch. Guess i was very pissed off at that moment.

 

[Tigerius]

I quite frankly find the arguing FOR abusing this bug ridicilous. Yes it's a buggy game, indeed finding and fixing said problems should take priority, but in using these bugs to gain an advantage on other players you are ruining the spirit of the game.
Some bugs are inavoidable, it is a buggy game and you can't steer clear of all occasional events. But that is a very poor comparison to exping 5+ levels, knowingly gaining an unfair advantage on other expers, killing a size of pull you would never be able to kill otherwise. Don't try to put the blame on Mythic for some bugs being in the game, most games have that, it's you who've quite conciously triggered the bug over and over and over that are letting it become a bigger bug with larger effects than it otherwise would have.

What it really comes down to is your morales I guess, if it's in your mind entirely cool to kill severely larger pulls than you would otherwise handle because you knowingly abuse a bug, if you can entirely rid yourself of guilt for that and place it all on Mythic, then go ahead. I can't, I've tried out how the bug worked and hell I've grouped a while with a Wizard who did lower room while I cleared Advisors, and it felt wrong every kill I got. I knew very well it's not how it's meant to be. I have my integrity, I value that more than getting to 50 AFAP.

3 cheers for all the false lvl 50 Wizards of Albion.

 

[-Wedge-]

Yeay my name was in this thread too

 

[old.Atrox]

It might be me who's dumb ( probably is ) but isnt Bug abuse bug abuse ?

Even thou it doesnt hurt any1 else ?

 

[Khalen]

I'm sorry to say but posting these kind of bugs on the boards is one of the most stupidst things to do. Because now everyone knows about it and will or will not use it... (and GOA pays attention to RightNow reports not forum posts.)

 

[old.Blake]

If its not hurting anyone then why worry Jumping in walls the kill a few enemy ppl is bad and aggree that cheaters should be punished, but if someone jumps through a wall etc to escape easily from the barrows then I don't see no harm.

 

[old.chesnor]

Im not using a bugged bow, im playing a bugged game.

That quote was from Nolbypride, as someone had accused Nolbypride of using a bugged bow to shoot someone from extreme range. NP didn't mean that the bow was the cause of the bug, he meant that the sighting rules in this game in and around hills are buggy and that is why he made the shot. It is wrong to use this quote out of context as a justification to cheat. Sure the game is buggy, and instead of whining and defending people who use bugs to gain an advantage, everyone should report the bugs and get the game fixed.

The bottom line is, in a game of this complexity bugs exist. Mythic cannot test exhaustively to remove bugs, if they did we would still be in beta and their business would have collapsed.

c0ngo was right to blow the whistle on this cheating...

 

[Alrindel]

If its not hurting anyone then why worry Jumping in walls the kill a few enemy ppl is bad and aggree that cheaters should be punished, but if someone jumps through a wall etc to escape easily from the barrows then I don't see no harm.

The harm is kind of intangible, but it's very real. Most of the people at Mythic are long-time gamers with years of experience, and a lot of them are former employees of Verant and Origin or other online gaming companies. They know first-hand the real harm that is done to a game's community - and its paying subscriber base - once cheating gets out of hand. They also saw first-hand the struggles Origin and Verant had against organized groups of cheaters hacking their way through Ultima Online and EverQuest, and they set their policy from the very first day of development to do everything they could to prevent that from happening.

If I'm playing the game, I have a right to expect that everyone I will meet (and fight, if they are enemies) came up through the system the way I did. Maybe they are more powerful because the character classes are a bit unbalanced, maybe they are going farther than I would to give themselves an edge (getting a second account and running a buffbot from a second computer) but I have to believe they are playing within the rules as laid out by the company that is running the game. If they have uber-armour, then they got a rare drop off a mob or did their epic quest, not because someone used a hack to make 20 copies of a rare set of armour and then sell them for $50 on e-bay. If they seem to home straight in on me while I'm sneaking around trying to snipe in the frontiers, then it's because they are smart and have a stealthed scout out, or because they know where the best sniper spots are, not because they have some packet-sniffing cheat program lighting me up as a big red dot on a radar screen. If they are level 50, then they fought a ton of mobs and climbed up, they didn't just stand in a bugged location in a dungeon where mobs can't reach and sit there soloing purples watching the exp bar rocket up.

Someone said in another thread that, compared to other online games, DAoC was 'squeaky clean'. It is, on the whole - and that's because Mythic is vigilant. On the Herald they said once that on average they terminate the accounts of 3-5 people a day for cheating. If they stop doing that, within a month the game will become the cheatfest that Diablo II became (for example) and the exodus will begin.

Cerverloc said that he was uncomfortable reporting cheaters in his own realm, because "Betraying them in a fashion that can only remind me of people selling out their own people."

From my point of view, they betrayed us by joining our game and then cheating. They are not my people. My people are the players in the three realms on my server who are playing by the rules and trying to have fun. Those people are the morons who are trying to spoil the game for us, and I want them to stop or leave before they do any more damage.

 

[c0ngo]

Originally posted by AoE HoE

(because we have better things to do other than get jealous + bi*ching, and what do you think we pay our subscription fee for?)

Can't be bothered with most of ur post but y would I be jealous of some blue con clerics cheating in the barrows ? I pay my subscription to play a game where people don't abuse bugs, if that's not what you pay for there are plenty of games about ruined by cheating, I'd suggest you play one of the.

(wiz mob supposed to nuke not to come in melee. wouldn't it be wrong if you were a wizard and you go and hit a yellow con for 300+ in melee?)

Ur clearly an idiot. The only people who can abuse this bug are casters or archers. If u hit the wizard twice with a cast/arrow it comes to melee and a orange/red con Spect Wizzie is easily capable of killing any of the classes that can abuse this bug in melee.

Edit Spose an armsman/inf/merc could try to exploit it with their cbow/bow but it'd take so long 2 kill them there'd be no point 2 it.

 

[blitzing]

bugs

well you might think it is lame that they say that we have to report bugs if we find any, and then why do they make a game where they know there are bugs, but have you EVER seen a game that didn need bug fixing??? cause i would say that its imposible to make a game that doesnt need updates at some point to fix bugs. Cause the team that made the game cant be 100% sure that all bugs have been removed, so there for they kindly ask the players to report any bugs to help make the game better, now why is that lame??

 

[old.mystah_e]

Congo i have seen lots of people from your guild abuse the wall bug, why havent u grassed them up to GOA???

Is it because ur a two faced (insert crude term here)???

What are u going to do with the members of ur guild that continue to use the wall bug??


And yes chain pulling is a bug, if Goa declares this a bug, will you scrap ur lvl 50 cleric, because u have oblivously use chain pulling to lvl up and any truly honest peoiple would admit that they have cheated to lvl up and therefore should start again.

So do us all a favour re roll a character and do not use any of these known bugs... Lets see u get to lvl 50 now lololololololololo

 

[-Wedge-]

On Congo's defense, he has rerolled his character and is working his way up to 50... He does still have Congo, but believe me, doesnt play him a whole lot...

Chain pulling isnt a bug guys, its a hunting exploit...
(Thats how Sanya called it on the herrald)

And thus are not saying if it was illegal or not... Basicly you could see it as a design flaw, which you arent allowed to use according to the CoC...

But if thats the case, then any nerf or change that Mystic makes could be seen as a design flaw... Chain mezzing, Clerics smite too high, Earth wizzies not having GroundTarget-AE, Infils/SB/NS 1-shotting grays and staying stealthed, the list goes on and on...

 

[old.Second]

I reported a bug to goa about 2 patches ago.

the zonewall bug where you can run off the edge of the world from sauvage and snowdonia. But have they done anything about it?

No wonder that people use bugs when goa never does anything about it.

Its like a hole in the floor with a sign that reads: If you fall into the hole then your F***ed. Instead of fixing the hole so noone falls down.

bad example but good point

So i got one thing to say to GOA's bug abuse policy: uke:

Try to fix the problem not the users.

 

[c0ngo]

But I do use chains Wedge with my Minst and will continue to do so It's not risk free xp though but just save u having 2 pull over and over ....

The 1st time I saw a chain pull on the trees I was 46+ cause no one on the server really tried trees much before that but I did use them to get the last few lvls to 50. Not even sure the trees were there b4 1.44 and I was 42 by the time we got that patch without having used a single chain pull. I did 0 gobbo chain pulls as well, we lvld on tanglers in a completely differant way.

old.mystah_e another of ur brilliant posts please keep them up.

What has people in a Guild I'm in that use a bug in the wall got to do with me ? Was I there ? Was I doing it ? If you saw them doing it and you have a problem with it feel free to report them and the bug urself. If I saw anyone from DK abusing the bug at the Wizzies I'd happily report them and try to get them kicked from the Guild, same thing if I saw them in a wall RvR.

My opinion of you stated in previous posts in this thread remains unchanged.

 

[Herbal Remedy]

question if it wasnt a bug why did goa spawn extra advissors to prevent you using it?

bug no matter how or what type shouldnt be exploiting

exploiting bugs = cheating

ive seen a lvl 42 archer kill 10 wizzards and advisors in this way sure took him a long time but he must have got 20X the xp he would normally get solo

someone in Gol was abusing this bug wouldnt accept that it was cheating and Gol rules forbid cheating so he left

grats to congo for reporting it saved me some time becuase if he hadnt i wouldve

what the people who are doing this is cheapening the hard work of people who are not using this bug becuase its against their principles and the rules of the game, and the hardwork of those already lvl 50.

another thing that spawn is usually enough to keep 2 -3 people happy on the ground floor yet one person can clear it

is that being fair to the people who have moral standards and dont want to cheat but xp in the normal way?


congo hasnt done a single thing wrong in the instance what those poeple where doing was wrong him reporting them and the bug was right.

to those people who used the bug whats the point in being 50 if u had to cheat your way there


to those people flaming congo he did the right thing so lay off him mebe you lot want to play a game where cheating is ok but i sure as hell dont and so do the magority or players


to aoe

because we have better things to do other than get jealous + bi*ching, and what do you think we pay our subscription fee for?)

jealous of what? he worked for his lvl 50 he worked damn hard for it what thsese people are doing belittles his hard work. And another thing jelous and bitching? how the hell do you ever expect people to take you seriously when you post like a whinging 5 year throwing his dummy out of the pram?

set out your arguements in an adult way next time and mebe just mebe people will take you seriously

 

[old.mystah_e]

Let me see.... Chain pulling is a hunting exploit and is therefore cheating .

bug no matter how or what type shouldnt be exploiting

,Herbal Remedy

But I do use chains Wedge with my Minst and will continue to do so It's not risk free xp though but just save u having 2 pull over and over ....

,Congo


When you chain pull, you get camp bonus for every single pull that comes, that is unfair and is a bug.

Therefore they is no real difference between chaining or using any other bugs to get ahead in this game. I really do not understand how u can preach about cheating when you are a cheat yourself.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Still choking on the idea that someone ould be a ****** for denouncing cheaters. Oh, and autoing doesn't provide infinite camp bonus; on the contrary it tends to kill off camp bonus quickly. What you do get is group bonus, but that's another thing entirely.

 

[c0ngo]

Originally posted by old.mystah_e
Therefore they is no real difference between chaining or using any other bugs to get ahead in this game. I really do not understand how u can preach about cheating when you are a cheat yourself.

If that's what u think ur still an idiot but ur entitled to ur opinion.

All a chain does is stop the need for repeated pulls and slightly reduces the number of a certain mob that comes at you.

With gobbos for example a single pull for a full grp gives 4 gobbos and you get 2-3 in the chain. The xp is no differant for the gobbos in the chain or the initial pull and the camp bonus gets used up just as quick as in single pulls. The only advantage you get is a smaller pull, which isn't really that much of an advantage as the grp was able to cope with the initial pull to set the chain up in the 1st place.

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by old.mystah_e
Let me see.... Chain pulling is a hunting exploit and is therefore cheating .

,Herbal Remedy

,Congo


When you chain pull, you get camp bonus for every single pull that comes, that is unfair and is a bug.

Therefore they is no real difference between chaining or using any other bugs to get ahead in this game. I really do not understand how u can preach about cheating when you are a cheat yourself.

no i said exploiting a bug is cheating dont twist my words

and camp bonus you get wether you chain or not, infact chaining actually reduces the xp you get from camp bonus as you are pulling more mobs than you would in single pulls over a period of time as the more you camp a spot the less camp bonus u get.


mythic increased the regen rate of a mobs health while not in combat to prevent chaining which they feel helps you lvl faster than you should , not once have they ever said it is a bug and they havent banned anyone for it.

goa messed up the patch or the game engine in some way to create these pathing problems for these mobs and rather than patch a fix they just spawned more mobs to stop you using it.
Chaining has always been a part of the game and mythic are now changing the minds on it, and theres the difference goa messed up and the game did something it was never supposed to do (didnt before patch and didnt on us servers) hence the word BUG . Chaining how ever was created by mythic with their knowledge they have since changed there minds about it so it isnt a bug just something they changed

besides dont split hairs about this, act in a mature way instead of trying to defend these people actions by throwing mud in other people faces if it was ok, if it wasnt a bug why did goa add the extra spawn

 

[AoE HoE]

to aoe

how the hell do you ever expect people to take you seriously when you post like a whinging 5 year throwing his dummy out of the pram?

set out your arguements in an adult way next time and mebe just mebe people will take you seriously

read the topic, it says 'summary + some reply to c0ngo's thread' and thats exactly what i done.

Yes i'm sure you are very argumentitive when u post lines like that. perhaps use examples and explaintions instead directly calling me a whinging 5 year old would make you look more intelligent (i never directly insult anybody that's just plain mean!)).

btw my apologies to c0ngo just for the sake of it, i do think you are doing great but perhaps need to relax a little more.

I have nothing against bug reporting but when u try to become a policeman when you are clearly a citezen that's where you're stepping abit out of the line.

I ended my post clearly when saying
'4) you have wasted 5-10 mins of your time reading this crap that i'm sure you will find to be recylced in the future or perhaps you have seen in the past. '

think about it...

now plz no more replies or u are just wasting more time over nothing (yes this bug has been fecking indirectly fixed now ffs), but then who am i to argue that some people just have way too much time.

 

[c0ngo]

I don't think I added in the original post that we asked the 2 abusers to move and stop abusing the bug but were ignored which is why I reported the people abusing the bug in addition to the bug itself (might have already said it but can't be bothered to check).

A wizzie went there as well breifly and moved when we suggested that abusing a bug was not the best way to lvl.

And I am very calm and relaxed btw, just filling time at work while I'm bored

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by AoE HoE

c0ngo bi*ching about people using the place because of the decent amount of xping gained from the spot and has reported the problem + probably any body he see using the method to gain xp such way to GOA.



and here is someone who's got a brain and thought about it..



I feel sick about this. People here are just trying to get others banned. What is this??? WW2 ?? Where people betrayed you to the germans.

I never abused or exploited but ive seen many people do it in various ways and on all realms. However I don't feel the urge to send e-mails to GOA and smiling/partying when they ban people.



(because we have better things to do other than get jealous + bi*ching, and what do you think we pay our subscription fee for?)



so.... here we have it.... spent some pointless minutes in writing this post.... conclusion....

1) some people have way too much time bi*ching about things that are not the player's fault
2) that bug is indirectly amended
3) Albion lost one decent xp spot (i'm sure hibs+mids are sniggering)
4) you have wasted 5-10 mins of your time reading this crap that i'm sure you will find to be recylced in the future or perhaps you have seen in the past.


I'm just bored with faggots.

i never directly insult someone mm your own post aoeuke:

 

[Kralen]

Congo did absolutely right to report the bug. And I am sure he didn't want to be a "policeman". U absolutely need to report the bugs to make goa/mythic to fix it.
I really can't understand the endless discussion if it is right or not to report bug abuser. Actually I don't care about peeps using bugs. They just cheat on themselves.
Bug reporting is a very good way to stop peeps using bugs, but I never would report names. If u make Goa/Mythic fix the bugs it should (hopefully) be enough. Banning peeps won't stop that other peeps using the bugs.

Call me a fool, it's just my opinion.

 

[old.Second]

Fool! (happy now Nibbler? )

well i think some persons say they dont use bugs but still use them=) i saw a whole bunch yesterday evening but wont mention names since i was one of them hehe.



we went to wack stonelords but ended up with a 2 hour trip and fried by dragon

 

[odjinn]

so congo, basicly you have gotten too high to gain exp from those mobs? or are you just mad at the casters that gain good exp?

 

[c0ngo]

Originally posted by odjinn
so congo, basicly you have gotten too high to gain exp from those mobs? or are you just mad at the casters that gain good exp?

Not really no their cheating has no direct effect on me.

If you want to be in a realm where people are able to compete with hibbs and mids in RvR because they got their lvls cheating thats up 2 u but I don't.

Read the thing you accept everytime you play the game.

 

[quinthar]

I find it rather amusing that some people are saying "essentially that its hurts the feelings of those that got to 50 that others can do it now using this "feature"".

I'm sorry but I find it impossible to comprehend that a person has got to 50 without using one "feature" of the game to enhance XP or preserve it.

And for the record I have seen people of all the guilds represented here (based on your tags) in the advisors room using the feature or using exploits so clean yer own house before slagging off others. Want thier names? Ask somebody that wants to grass up people you wont get them off me.

Chaining is not documented in my little manual therefore if I was Billy no mates I would have no chance of discovering this "feature" and I would be at a disadvantage - Is that fair??

I think people have blown it out of all proportion, as already stated the position has been amended to make it practically impossible to use.

 

[Arthwyr]

I'm sorry but I find it impossible to comprehend that a person has got to 50 without using one "feature" of the game to enhance XP or preserve it.

Lots of people did it m8. The veterans here including me leveled to 50 without even those sweet dartmoor items - catacomb items - Lyn barfog items - Keltoi items. When i Hit level 35 I was still wearing my vindi armor because they were basicly the only armor that dropped appart from the hollowmen who were even tighter in drops then they are now. My first piece of orange armor at lvl 35 was a fluted adamantium helmet crafted by congo for 93 gold.
And most of the features that are know to us now were still undiscovered because there simply were no high levels to tell us about it. WE were the high levels at that point. We had no higher leveled rezzers or high level eb haste buffs or cleric buffs because we were it. People who level now, includng me leveling my alt have it MUCH easier now then in the early days. Running around in our fancy crafted armor with fancy crafted weapons and if we can't afford that we sure as hell can go hunt for a nice item to drop. Anh oh a high level theurgists walks by lets ask him for some Eb / haste. To sum it up life is easier now.