Suggestions for Season #2

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old.TheGenius

Guest
Right im trying to get this forum alive so here are some ideas for BW season #2 :

EITHER :
- Matches are scored in TOTAL rounds not each half
OR :
- Use current scoring but leave out maps such as cs_siege, de_dust and cs_assault (the 3 best maps) as these are pretty much impossible to win both halves on, the advantage with scoring using total rounds is that whoever does a better job as the hard side gains the advantage which is how it should be.

BWCSL being the newest league, should try to schedule its match nights around UKCSL and WPCSL thus allowing a huge influx of new clans to join.

Opinions?

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B!TCH Server @ 194.93.134.27:27040
 
S

SAS

Guest
Ahhh you've opened the can of worms now :)

I was going to ask your views on season 2 later near the end of this season :)

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EITHER :
- Matches are scored in TOTAL rounds not each half
OR :
- Use current scoring but leave out maps such as cs_siege, de_dust and cs_assault (the 3 best maps) as these are pretty much impossible to win both halves on, the advantage with scoring using total rounds is that whoever does a better job as the hard side gains the advantage which is how it should be.
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I had idea 2 in mind. A better map selection will be decided by all clans. I'll send a map list out and you can all see if it's any good and changes can be made. The maps will reflect the ones you want.

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BWCSL being the newest league, should try to schedule its match nights around UKCSL and WPCSL thus allowing a huge influx of new clans to join.
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Mmm well I created the fixtures for thursdays to be out of the way of the WPCSL and UKCSL. I checked with them and it's the only day that is freeish. One thing I don't feel is right is to let the 2 other leagues decide when a certain clan can't play on thursday in the BWCSL because that league needs them to play. I'm happy to make changes to sort out any games overlapping games in other leagues, but how can one league tell another that a clan can or cannot play?

As for the size. I will make bwcsl bigger if I can. I will need 2 days to do this and there's the problem. Apart from thursday what other days are free that clans can play. Barring friday and saturday nights when most people go out :)


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Posted by S.A.S
http://guides.barrysworld.com
 
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old.[EVIL]Chainsaw

Guest
I think you should go with the first idea, as it shows how good clans actually are. If they can win, or do well in the half where they are at a disadvantage, then they have done well, and should win overall. I think it gives a much better idea of which clans are better than others.
 
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old.[CS-B]Nautilus

Guest
Oooh... a league scoring discussion.

/me cracks his knuckles. :)
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Method 1 - Total rounds:

IMO promotes camping (and this has nothing to do with the recent UKCSL arguments. I decided this a long time before PSi brought it up).

Quick explanation:
Clan [A] start as CT's on a H rescue map. Being a clan who play for fun and don't feel the need to win every game to boost their ego's they attempt to achieve the map objectives... rescue the H's. Unfortunately for them most H resuce maps are much more easily defended than attacked.
So they loose, quite badly, 9-2.

The teams switch and are now CT's. Unlike [A], are out to win this at all costs (Barring anything illegal, they ain't that sad). So, instead of trying to rescue H's they sit back and play to the clock knowing that even if they don't win any rounds timeouts won't come quick enough for [A] to make up the rounds they need. After a couple of rounds [A] have worked out what are doing and decide they have to attack to win. CS being the game it is they find it difficult and lose rounds.

[A] have effectively had to attack twice, a bit unfair considering how much easier it is to hold a position than assault it.

Feeling hard done by [A] post a comment on the league's message board about these unsportsmanlike tactics and a massive flamewar ensuse. Everyone from the admins to the lowest scoring player's cat is blamed and you have half the clans at each other's throats.
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Method 2 - Seperate Scoring for each "map".

Doesn't promote camping but still has it's faults.

[A] start as CT's on siege, horribly biased towards T's but they know they'll have to win both rounds to get full points. They try to attack but, like in the other league, they lose. This time though they've improved their tactics and only lose by 4 rounds.

They switch and are now CT's. They know they have to attck to get full points and do so (If for no better reason to avoid having to work out how draws are scored. ;). [A], however, have their siege defence well organised and win by 6 rounds. A draw in the end but, as most of the other teams got draws most of them are happy.

On member of [A], however isn't. In the other league [A] would have got all the points. So, feeling hard done by, he posts a comment on the league's message board about these crap draws and a massive flamewar ensuse. Everyone from the admins to the lowest scoring player's cat is blamed and you have half the clans at each other's throats.
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Neither system is perfect, arguing over them is pointless. Let the people who run the league choose which they prefer and if you disagree with their choice don't enter the league. Nobody is forcing you.

For those who care I prefer the second.

That lot had better of made sense. :)

Glenn
 
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old.TheGenius

Guest
Thats a good example of an unfair matchup but in a good league when there is a tough match going on total rounds is the way to play.

Method 1 gives lesser clans like [A] a chance to weasel a few points, i mean how can anyone lose a half as Ts on siege if they hold position?

However i dont care about lesser clan getting points, leagues are for seperating the top clans from the others and all the top clans know what goes on (the camping as CTs).

If [TopClanA] plays [TopClanB] on cs_siege they will both camp their arses off as Ts and likely not drop a round. As CTs they can wait but then the game will end in a draw and this is a crunch game which both teams want to win?

So they decide they either have to sacrifice life and limb to grab a couple of quick rounds as Ts or sit as CTs and rush in at the last minute.

This is how matches should be played...

My problem with scoring both halves seperately is as follows :

PROBLEM 1 :

[TopClanA] plays [AverageClan] on cs_assault (drastically T biased) and only get 2 points as [AverageClan] know to hold position as Ts and dont lose (almost any clan can do this).

Then [TopClanA]'s rivals play [AverageClan] on cs_militia (balanced) and whup the crap outta them both halves.

Now [TopClanA] have dropped a place in the league and possibly lost the league title because of the wrong map picked on the wrong week.

PROBLEM 2 :

[Division1ClanA] plays [Division1ClanB] on de_dust, cs_siege, cs_assault or whatever and know full well that they will win as the easy team and lose as the hard team, so they fanny about and generally dont really do anything when they play as the lesser team because there is no hope.

PROBLEM 3 :

[LameClan] plays [TopClanA] on cs_assault or a hiding style map, [LameClan]Player decides to kill all the hostages and chill in a nice hiding place/vent etc... as Ts, [LameClan] thus gain an undeserved 2 points (no rule-breaking though).

What are [TopClanA] to do?

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B!TCH Server @ 194.93.134.27:27040
 
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old.[CS-B]Nautilus

Guest
Hmmmkay. I'll go into a bit more detail than Kav. Probably won't say anything more interesting or thought provoking though. :)

"So they decide they either have to sacrifice life and limb to grab a couple of quick rounds as Ts or sit as CTs and rush in at the last minute.

This is how matches should be played..."

Rushing in at the last minute is the way to win using the total rounds system but it still makes for a very boring game. It's not the way I want to play. CS is more tactial than most other multiplayer games so I expect my opponents to take their time and get themselves set to attack but waiting 4 minutes hardly makes for an enthraling game.
It may well win you the league but it's not much fun for your opponents. At least with the seperate method you have to attack both as T and CT.

You'll get more draws and the best team may not win but at least there'll be more action and, hopefully, more fun because of that. Surley that's the point of playing the game... for enjoyment.
Obvious counter-argument to this is it's more fun if you win every game by a huge margin. That's not how I feel but I know a few people who do.

Onto the probelms:

Problem 1
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[TopClanA]'s rivals probably got a draw on assault too. Unless of course they were playing [LessThanAverageClan]. But that's just the luck of the draw. You just have to live with it.

Problem 2
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[Division1ClanA] and [Division1ClanB] shouldn't have bothered joining the league if they're not going to at least try. Yes, it'll be hard to win both but if they're not prepared to try they're wasting everyone's time.

Problem 3
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This is a fault with [LameClan]Player, not the scoring system. He could do the same with the other system.


I should really back up my side of the argument with more but rational forum discussion melt my brain. I need some flames in here. ;)

Glenn
 
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old.KMA.Sandz

Guest
I think the current system is fine, but lose the most baised maps and bring back some oldies, like Tire. Also mansion2000 would be good :).
 
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old.[-PSi-] GuPsTeR

Guest
Well I had to get involved :)

I think the current score system is fine.
You only have to look at the WPCSL and also this league to see that it works!!!.

The other way, well im not starting that again on another forum goto the ukcsl forum for more info.

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It was me.
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old.[-PSi-] GuPsTeR

Guest
Well I had to get involved :)

I think the current score system is fine.
You only have to look at the WPCSL and also this league to see that it works!!!.

The other way, well im not starting that again on another forum goto the ukcsl forum for more info.

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It was me.
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