Stealth Proposal From Vn Boards

[Vladamir]

Team Leads & Mythic Developers,

With all the upcoming changes in store for us, some good, some bad, there is one thing that we all are concerned about, and that is Stealth Detection Abilities.....

With the goal of creating some sort of stealth detection balance between us, Mythic has proposed a somewhat even playing field with MOS, by allowing the stealth community to purchase this RA, so that they might be able to 'see' each other at (x) range while stealthed while increasing stealth speed, forcing the results to be, either, avoiding melee contact or engaging to each other and the requirement of spending (upto) 1/3 our RP's to stay competetive. .. and yes, there are still alot of questions in relation to this, but there is a fundamental fact, that the stealth community depends on stealth as both an offensive and defensive ability. The ability to 'stealth' is used by all rogues as a form of 'unseen' manueverability, that allows them to scout for themselves, their group mates, or their realm mates giving intel for both, offensive and defensive reasons And, of course, as a stand alone Defensive Ability (stay hidden to avoid large scale battles, or incoming enemies, etc). Rogue classes are dependent on stealth as an overall 'survival' ability, since the solo aspect of the game is what makes the game so desirable to alot of the stealth community, so desirable, in fact, that most of the stealth community has even put up with having to have two accounts to stay competitive.

The desire of the stealth community is that of creating some form of balance in relation to stealth detection, that does not give any one rogue class an advantage over the other in the detection of one another....

... and the stealth community, shown by support in this thread, would propose the following solutions for testing..... as opposed to the proposed MoS.

1. Allow access of Detect Hidden to all Rogue classes

2. MoS only increases speed while stealthed, on tiers (no bonuses to detection)

3. Give all group members the ability to 'see' the (grouped) rogue(s) while stealthed in shade form. (Code is already there, just give all grouped memember Passive TS3 Ability, that only works on the players in their group)

We believe, this could be put up for testing, and could be a starting point for us to move forward, and allow the rogue classes to place Realm Points into other, more desirable, Realm Abilities and not forcing us to compete against eachother in one RA.

Koldeyes Clan
Guinevere
& All Stealth Community

P.S.
For those that agree with this, please copy and post on your boards to spread the suggestion across all boards that pertain to this issue. Might get noticed and considered this way.

Figured i'd post it here for those of you who're interested. Keep it whine and flame free please.

 

[Ormorof]

since the solo aspect of the game is what makes the game so desirable to alot of the stealth community

maybe in US

 

[Shike]

seems reasonable I guess, why mincers need same stealth as assassins and archers is beyond me though. They are already causing imbalance and this would further increase it I believe.. oh well.

 

[Ctuchik]

seems reasonable I guess, why mincers need same stealth as assassins and archers is beyond me though. They are already causing imbalance and this would further increase it I believe.. oh well.

mainly because they are a stealth class, but thats not to be discussed in this thread.. if u wanna whine about mincers take it to the mincer thread please...

as the thread starter said, no whine or flames.. just post a oppinion on the quote and leave it at that..

 

[Driwen]

the range when stealthers see each other effects the balance between rogues. Atleast between assassins, archer and minstrels. Archers and at some level minstrels want the range to be as great as possible and assassins rather have it small as that means that the other stealther is forced in melee and assassins are stronger in melee than the others.
So allthough it might be a bad idea to give MoS stealth detection, it doesnt mean the stealth classes are balanced if they see eachother at the same range as the range can still either be to great or to small.

Now personally I dont know wether it is good to have MoS 4 and 5 in, but I personally think MoS 3 means you wont find other people to easy still as it is still just 550 for assassins and 425 for the other stealthers (also need to substract some of that range as it takes a little time before the server lets you see other stealthers).

Ow and the remark that minstrels shouldnt get detect hidden is an opinion. Allthough koldeyes might have meant the talk to be just against or for the idea., it does comes down to looking why some minstrels, archers or assassins need just as good or better stealth (detection) than the others.

 

[Jaem-]

3. Give all group members the ability to 'see' the (grouped) rogue(s) while stealthed in shade form. (Code is already there, just give all grouped memember Passive TS3 Ability, that only works on the players in their group)

I think this is one posible thing making it harder to stealth group, which is a nice thing.

Tho my opinion that stealth rating should recieve a penalty, so its reduced with amount of people near by, as many may claim solo, but they camp simular spots, and will attack same person.

Hope if they impliment something like this, it will make stealthers stay away from other stealthers, such as not staying too close to visable targets incase of a AE mezz.

Tho not sure if Mythric's Dev team will listen to Koldeyes suggestion tbh.

 

[Iceforge]

seems reasonable I guess, why mincers need same stealth as assassins and archers is beyond me though. They are already causing imbalance and this would further increase it I believe.. oh well.

Well, unless they are going to change things not mentionen here, detect hidden on a mincer wont make him THAT much more powerfull, as it will only work on enemy Archers without camoflage(sp?) up...

They have no camoflage(sp?) to conceal themselves nor the immunity to it that Assassins have great favour off, even tho I would think that a new NON-PASSIVE TS should be re-added to the Archers community again, if Assassins get to keep their immunity to Detect Hidden, or something good added to Assassins if they don't, think the balance between them are pretty fair atm (I was an Assassin, come tell me any Archer who disagree with me and state WHY please)

My own "Why" for it being balanced now:

Archers have range and can easier add on fights (many stealthers do that, lets not deny it)
Archers range make them able to kill non-stealthers more safely (as a Caster i know you can be 1-shotted if you are without buff, 2-3 shotted most times if with buffs, sometimes you never find the archer before eating dirt)
Assassins need to get into close range with a enemy Archer (1on1) if he wanted to win, so he had to see them further away than they could see him, then he had a chance at him (odds on Assassins side if he made it into 1on1, I know), while when the Archer pushed TS and saw a Assassin far away, usually had the odds on his side, as the Assassins low HP made him almost 100% unable to manage vs. Archer, if popped with Crit-shot, shot 2 times before finding Archer/getting to him)

Just how I saw it, as an Assassin...

EDIT: I think the suggestion from the US guy is VERY reasonable, and I would understand no less than 100% Backup around his suggestion from the stealther community, having all stealthers use 1 3rd their RP's on something to compete stealther vs. stealther is abit harsh....

 

[PJS]

hmmm find and replace "stay competitive" with "wtfpwn" and it reads a lot better

 

[Dommelsch]

3. Give all group members the ability to 'see' the (grouped) rogue(s) while stealthed in shade form. (Code is already there, just give all grouped memember Passive TS3 Ability, that only works on the players in their group)
QUOTE]

stealther MA trains? :<

 

[Jaem-]

stealther MA trains? :<

Already happening.

 

[Kami]

I think being able to see stealthers in your group would just encourage more stealth gank groups, it'd be so damn easy to coordinate. I fail to see how you can be "stealthed" but still perfectly visible to those you want to be able to see you..

 

[Sarumancer]

Ive an rr3 Ranger, those suggestions arent bad.

At the moment, archer classes in all 3 realms are nothing more than fodder for the assasin classes, try and argue that if you will, but when youre seen from range, hit and debuffed for HALF your hp on the first hit, its hard to put up a decent fight in melee. We're supposed to be bow users, not melee monsters, so most of the time (not always), the archer will go "ugh splat" and die to the assasin. I know my biggest problem is with Infils, but thats neither here nor there, I can put up a decent fight vs a shadowblade but infils just stomp me into a mudhole and walk my ass dry.

If all stealthers got Detect hidden (maybe not Mincers to set them aside as a stealth - lite class, they have other fun tricks), at the same point in their career. Let the Asassins have more effective detection range, to counter the archer range advantage and give everyone -camoflague-, but set it on a 2-5 minute recycle. There you go, you bring all the stealthers onto a level playing field, one realm has 3 stealthers, but that 3rd stealther is less effective as its not a full stealther (which redresses most of the problems mid and hibs has with mincers).

Just remember that Mid and Albs assasin ra's deal with covering distances quickly and getting the killing hit in. Hibs one is... well, a smack in the nuts to nightshades (coming on top of repeated kicks to the scrotum with the removal of avoid pain/viper/duelist etc).

 

[XeffoInfil]

Imo they should keep Passive TS but then allow only assasins to spec MoS. tis good uc!

 

[Job]

Goddam stealth.
Put them all in their own server.
They can run around backstabbin each other.

 

[Umgrud]

Mini's should get a hybrid spec like shield insted of stealth....

albs have 3 stealth class's and hib/mids get 2.... nerf or not?

 

[Elitestoner]

yay cos we all want more stealth zergs!! really!!

 

[UndyingAngel]

yay cos we all want more stealth zergs!! really!!

uke:

 

[Gamah]

Mini's should get a hybrid spec like shield insted of stealth....

albs have 3 stealth class's and hib/mids get 2.... nerf or not?

Yes lets make minstrels like skalds , rather have my shittie stealth thanks. Sure assasins can see me a mile off but the solo caster running to defend a keep can't.

And mythic stated many times they will never remove or add a spec line from a class.

 

[Chimaira]

Minstrel amagaad whine is getting boring they arent that fucking gr8

 

[Spix]

Minstrel amagaad whine is getting boring they arent that fucking gr8

Yes they are if the player are a half decent player... Grouped with a scout or infil they are unbeatable 2vs1.. and very very good 1vs1 and totaly cool 2vs2, 2vs3... roll a mid/hib stealther and go figure.
So good that they was the primary reason why I stopped playing the game, added FZ to minstrels was the final blow for me after playing since beta.


RETIRED

 

[Jaem-]

Mincers are kinda strong, but I think their CC was their main reason for being strong, but with 15-5 min reuse purge, kinda has reduced value.

 

[Rookiescot]

How about another option ....
Give assasins chain armour and turn them into positional fighters.
Then bin stealth.
Yeah give them some fluff like an aoe DoT or something but really ......lets bin stealth.
Dumbest idea evah was stealth.