Spirit Master - Year Zero

R

Roo Stercogburn

Guest
Spirit Master - Year Zero
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A summary of Spirit Masters on release compared to now from my perspective. I haven't fine-honed it, I've just put down various points and observations.

At Release
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Darkness: Lifetap, dex/qui debuffs, pbae mez

Suppression: str/con debuffs, life transfer, attack speed debuff, self bladeturn, self shields, single target ranged mez, single target root.

Summoning: Pet heals, pet str and dex buffs, focus damage shield.

All debuffs were 2 second cast.

The pet damage shield had very low output damage and had a variety of bugs associated with it.

Spirit Master debuffs were (and remain) most effective in realm, but Spirit Masters were generally considered a solo class as they had nothing obvious to directly offer groups. The effect of debuffs was (and still is) difficult to explain to a lot of players as you can't see easily what they do to benefit a group. The pbae mez itself was difficult for other players to see if the mobs were mezzed, as all you got to see was a blue wave effect emanating from each mezzed mob, so mez-breaks were common when SMs were doing crowd control.

For RvR, darkness was considered the only viable spec-line as it was the ONLY line with any direct damage output on it - the other 2 lines only had support functions on them. This meant that Spirit Masters that wanted any kind of effect in RvR were forced to take darkness into the 40s, and normally to 47, with leftover in suppression and very little summoning.

At this time, Spirit Masters in RvR were good at providing backup firepower to runemasters in groups, or for killing assassin classes that didn't manage to one-shot them (pbae mez, retreat, heal, send pet, kill). Keep assaults/defences they had advantages as pets could pass through both doors in keeps and attack enemies; could not usually kill player defenders but could take out NPC defenders. Pets can also attack keep doors, giving an effective advantage over non-pet class casters.

The advantages of the play style in PvE for Spirit Masters, was that you could explore the entire game realm you were based in, without need to wait around common group spots since you could level effectively without groups. This counterbalanced the less group friendly aspects of the character. Most players with Spirit Masters as main chars knew their way around the realm from very early levels rather than just the routes between common grouping areas.


Now
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Darkness: Lifetap, dex/qui debuffs, pbae mez, ranged area mez, spirit debuff, resist debuffs

Suppression: str/con debuffs, life transfer, attack speed debuff, self bladeturn, self shields, single target ranged mez, single target root, pbae blast, cure mez.

Summoning: Pet heals, pet str and dex buffs, focus damage shield, resurrect.

All debuffs are now insta-cast except for the resist debuffs which are 2 second casts.


So what's changed?

Spirit Master mez now has the same visual effects as other mezzes, leading to less confusion amongst players in crowd control situations. An aesthetic perhaps, but an important one.

The pbae nuke is the fastest casting and most damaging in the game, but its use is limited to group based play, either in PvE or RvR and in both cases needs a well balanced group to be effective. Though you could say this about most abilities, pbae especially is dependant on a balanced group with appropriate support abilities like area stun and mana regen.

Spirit Pets can no longer enter keeps. Once the outer door is down, they can enter, but not until then.

Spirit pets have trouble climbing stairs. Send one up at a milegate and it often goes into attack mode at the bottom of the stairs without attempting to close on the enemy, rendering it useless.

Full Summoning specced Spirit Masters are appearing as alt chars, though never as main chars. The players that spec them openly say they want a good solo PvE class and have no intention of RvRing with it. They are basically farm-bots.

There are a lot of full suppression specced SMs appearing also, for the lvl49 final blast spell. Its worth noting, that though the SM pbae blast is more powerful than the other realms, it is more expensive in training points for the Spirit Master than its Hib or Alb counterparts rendering the Suppression SM very much a one-trick pony.

Hybrid Darkness/Suppression Spirit Masters seem to be reasonably effective for generic RvR and most that do this now bias towards suppression, only keeping darkness reasonably high to keep ranged damage output fairly consistent.

Ironically, Spirit Masters have gone from amongst the least wanted group characters to the most wanted because of the pbae nuke, as this is the fastest levelling tool in the game for all realms.

With the introduction of Realm Abilities, assassin classes are no longer as vulnerable to Spirit Masters. Purge, Avoidance of Magic, and increased damage output means Spirit Masters go down like all other casters.

In the same patch Spirit Masters were given ranged area mez, the duration of the various mezzes was reduced and abilities to protect from mez or avoid it altogether (via Realm abilities) were increased. This isn't entirely a bad thing, as it increases the chance for varied fights in RvR if one group doesn't get mez off first.

Spirit Master specific realm abilities are not used by anyone, or if they are, they respec as soon as they can. (Wild Minion is a generic pet-class RA, not SM-specific).

RAs such as Sever The Tether make the Spirit Master's life harder, without anything effective being given to the class RA-wise to counterbalance things like this or even taking the paper-scissors-stone approach, for Spirit Masters to affect another class, or alternatively particiclarly able to defend themselves.


The Future and General Opinions
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By the time 1.59 and 1.60 are implemented, there are going to be some very large changes in the game regarding RvR. Since the game has now been live in Europe for a year, this means a lot of people will be affected immediately.

Its hard to say exactly how they will affect Spirit Masters, as the changes are mainly aimed at Albion players and we are looking at knock-on effects rather than direct.

The Spirit Master will be the only caster pet class without a pet with ranged ability.

It is my firm belief that dark spec SM will no longer be particularly viable for the endgame and the direction that Mythic appear to want us to take Spirit Masters is the mana bomb route, effectively changing the class from CC and ranged DD to pbae DD with little or no CC.

Summoning spec SM never was viable for endgame RvR and this line remains badly in need of fixing. There is little or no variation on the spec line, its only function being to buff the pet rather than doing anything that adds colour to the game.

We will have come full circle: from having one viable specline for RvR (darkness) to two (darkness and suppression) and back to one again (Suppression this time).

The coming changes themselves won't even affect all Spirit Masters, as many are now pure suppressionists.

One of the interesting things I've noticed with the advent of Shrouded Isles, is that nearly all the new character classes have been given lifetaps in one form or another, and many of them insta.

Another of life's little ironies that the pet based classes that are appearing in that add-on have abilities based on ideas that SM players have been asking for to fix the summoning line for a year now and yet the only addition to the line is the infamous ghetto rez which has no utility value of particular note to a class that plays solo if they spec that line in PvE and cannot compete in RvR.

Flying pets, ethereal main char, bomber pets, multiple pets, different types of pets, healing pets, etc. All have been proposed as a way to fix the Spirit Master class, specifically, the summoning line. Even the ability to transfer mana in a similar way to transfering health has been proposed, or the ability to drain mana from enemies, pbae lifetap etc.

I think part of the problem lies in the generally low population of Spirit Masters until the advent of the pbae nuke and that basically there haven't been enough people to 'fight the cause', if you can use such a dramatic term regarding something that is just an element of a game.


Summary
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Is the Spirit Master class better than it was a year ago?

Yes, absolutely. Greater variety of things it can do, group friendly features and still a lot of fun to play.

Is the Spirit Master the same class as it was a year ago?

No. People that have specced for endgame in certain ways are going to find the coming changes invalidate their chars unless they have gone certain routes with it and they have successfuly been able to predict how the game will go.

Is the Spirit Master a viable RvR Class?

Its becoming more biased to pbae, but yes, it is currently still viable. However, if you want to keep playing your SM for RvR, you are going to have adjust playstyle quite heavily with the coming changes and the class's dependance on balanced groups will be increased very heavily indeed.

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I will have probably left out a lot of things and some topics are skimmed heavily (realm abilities, bugs and so forth) but this is all from the point of view of someone who has played the class a long time (I'm told I was the 5th SM to hit 50 on the server, though I'm not sure if I really was) and I've tried not to get too bogged down.

I personally am unsure I will keep playing. I'm afraid the Spirit Master class is becoming basically a watered down Enchanter class with many stealth-nerfs stacking up over the last few patches and some of the stuff that is coming.

I will watch the next few patch releases and see what Mythic get up to before I decide.
 
R

Roo Stercogburn

Guest
PS apologies for yet another wordcount muncher, but I've been threatening to do this particular topic for a while now :D
 
A

Arnor

Guest
I heard that a darkness specced sm with MoC could take anyone in 1on1 (cept mez/stunners)
 
S

Sarnat

Guest
Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn

There are a lot of full suppression specced SMs appearing also, for the lvl49 final blast spell. Its worth noting, that though the SM pbae blast is more powerful than the other realms, it is more expensive in training points for the Spirit Master than its Hib or Alb counterparts rendering the Suppression SM very much a one-trick pony.

Hybrid Darkness/Suppression Spirit Masters seem to be reasonably effective for generic RvR and most that do this now bias towards suppression, only keeping darkness reasonably high to keep ranged damage output fairly consistent.


I'll second that! Some people see the NP 2FGs kick the shit out of everyone and then start rolling full supp SMs thinking they will kick butt. Unfortunately SM supp spec doesn't have a cold debuff nor do SMs get a nuking pet. Those are the 2 reasons why chanters hurt so much in RvR (heat debuff in their case as their baseline nuke is heat). Plus our healers are literally inferior to Nolby bards in mezzing skills. Not to mention BoaD, GP and wardens and druids who actually have resist buffs and instaheals (druids). Maybe the AE stun might give us a slight advantage but I'm afraid midgard will get it's arse kicked untill we get some proper group RAs.
 
C

Coffeus

Guest
I always thought Spirtmasters are fine as they are. There a caster class in whats supposed to be the realm of blades hence deserve to be gimps
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Spirit line needs work (or is it Spirit Summoning? can never remember which is the spec line)

Much like Vivication - the cabalist one.

If you want a caster that's lost a lot of its point - see the wizard...
Wizards sacrifice all the utility for high damage... except they don't do any more damage than any other caster... they do the same. Bolts are fundamentally flawed, so the advantage of 2 bolts with your DD isn't one.

A Fire wizard is a gimped body cabalist/air theurgist. An Ice wizard is a mana eldritch with less utility, an earth wizard has a bolt and a dot for damage... and an aoe root... hardly 'most damaging caster sacrificing utility for damage'.

But I imagine they'll look at the spirit master when they get round to midgard (not that they did much for Vivication)

The pbae nuke is the fastest casting and most damaging in the game, but its use is limited to group based play, either in PvE or RvR and in both cases needs a well balanced group to be effective. Though you could say this about most abilities, pbae especially is dependant on a balanced group with appropriate support abilities like area stun and mana regen.

You can use your pet damage shield to hold agro and pbaoe when they're 2/3 damaged :)

However you don't need AoE stun and mana regen to do a pbaoe group - ask an ice wizard ;) (you need as many tanks as you get adds, pbt a cleric and ideally mana regen, yes... but you can make do with a lot less)

AoE stun is most certainly optional ;)
 
R

Roo Stercogburn

Guest
Yep, Flim, fair points but...

I know that there are a lot of different techniques and ways of running a pbae group - hell for PvE it can be with just one tank and 1 bomb-char in the group. Thats a whole separate thread by itself (and some people have). Though I never had the ability while levelling up, I've spent quite some time in Hib and learned a few different ways of blowing things up :)

The point was, that the pbae specced Spirit Master is very dependant on the group. They will have weak CC, weak pet and limited self-healing ability for solo under any circumstances. Sup SMs are pretty much forced to spec darkness as their second line to even out the damage on ranged attacks.

(In RvR the ae stun is the most effective way to get the best out of a pbae char as nobody is silly enough to leave a bomb-char bombing if they spot it and MoC is once every 30 mins. Pac healer + sup SM = happy RP if that playstyle is what suits you).


Regarding the summoning line: it has always been broken, end of story. As I said above, its got nothing to offer in RvR and chars using full summoning are only ever used as alts for farming. You mention the rez at spec 23 on it to any SM and they'll probably throw things at you. You cannot have high summoning (high in my book being 40+) as a viable end template for a char that wants to compete in RvR. Anybody I know that did this while levelling up respecced when we got the respec patch. Also remember that spirit pets have very little utility value to an xp group generally except as a weaker tank either used to peel agro or to pull with in certain situations. The only reasonable damage output item on summoning is the damage shield, and this is focus based, which makes it ludicrous for RvR.
 
O

old.SadonTheGrey

Guest
I think darkness spiritmasters have a lot of variety that makes them fun to play, though in practice i made one and deleted at level 9 through boredom :p

Somehow norse spiritmasters always look awesome in rvr though :eek: Don't know why :/
 
F

Fafnir

Guest
WEeeeeeeeeee started a new summoning to lvl 20 sm, and pac healer yesterday. :) Will see when i get time to lvl them
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn

The point was, that the pbae specced Spirit Master is very dependant on the group. They will have weak CC, weak pet and limited self-healing ability for solo under any circumstances. Sup SMs are pretty much forced to spec darkness as their second line to even out the damage on ranged attacks.
Aye :) but any class with a pet will solo far far easier than most petless classes (e.g. most tanks... although zerkers tear through oranges)


(In RvR the ae stun is the most effective way to get the best out of a pbae char as nobody is silly enough to leave a bomb-char bombing if they spot it and MoC is once every 30 mins. Pac healer + sup SM = happy RP if that playstyle is what suits you).
*Turns all green with jealousy*
Give clerics aoe stun or something :) or wizards, or spirit cabalists heck I don't care :) giv aoe stun :)


Regarding the summoning line:
Yep it's pretty damned terrible.

See the cabalist's equivalent, and even the enchanter.

Cabbie gets a 40% snare in theirs... not a root.. a snare.
Enchanter gets a damage add (semi-decent but no fun for the enchanter)
Spiritmaster gets their damage shield.

all three of the pet lines are terrible...
 
R

Roo Stercogburn

Guest
There's a few things I think should be done with the Summoning line as a matter of course.

I think that the higher you spec summoning, the quicker your pet is to summon. Not a major change but one that would be appropriate for what you are spending.

Pet choice: you should simply be able to choose what you want to summon rather than resummoning constantly to get a pet with appropriate damage type or ability for the mob/enemy you are going to fight. I think all pet classes have this annoyance, and all would welcome it.

Extended commands for a pet is probably something that should be looked at and would benefit all pet classes. Guarding another player for example, and once this is done, its first attack on whatever attacks that player is automatically a high-agro taunt. This gives the Sum SM a peeler ability for PvE without overpowering for RvR. A similar option would be for the pet to automatically attack when anyone in the group is attacked, rather than the Spirit Master. Again, a generically useful ability for all pet classes.

Some might say extended commands would give the pet class too much to think about, but anyone who's played a pet class a lot and actually uses the pet actively is used to juggling a lot of balls in the air.

Beyond those basics it becomes debatable and probably hotly contested what the best thing to do would be.

The dratted damage shield needs some reworking. Perhaps keep it focus below a certain level, but if you spec summoning high enough, change it to one with a short duration and no focus which would mean you can spend all those points speccing something you can actually use for the endgame.

The option for the Spirit Pet to tell you what it sees?
Different types of pet?
Short duration group damage shield?
Mana leech and transfer?

Summoning a leech pet could be amusing - pet that just goes around draining mana from enemies.

Even ground target summoning would be a useful ability, given that the Sum SM is almost totally dependant on their pet.

It gets hotly contested as soon as anyone asks for something for their class, but you have to chuck the ideas into the air first before something can be done.

Summoning one year on is still a broken spec line. It still needs fixing and it still needs someone to bang on about it. Someone else can take up the case for other classes like cabbies ;)
 
T

trigali

Guest
Originally posted by Fafnir
WEeeeeeeeeee started a new summoning to lvl 20 sm, and pac healer yesterday. :) Will see when i get time to lvl them

Fafnir, Cili, my Spiritamaster daugther of 32 seasons, mostly in Suppression, and Dwican, her little sister of 19 seasons focused in pacification, will be happy to have you along any time you want.
 

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