Sorcerers are people too...

[Simius]

Before anyone gets any ideas, this is not a whine about mez, instas, pets or any other aspect of mythic's treatment of sorcerers.

I also realise that some of these issues may not be solely restricted to sorcs, but seeing as it's the class I play, I have run into each and every thing that I am about to rant about.

1) Heals
When a sorc lands a sucessful mez, they become public enemy number one. Why then do 90% of clerics feel that despite the pounding we subsequently recieve, there is no real need to waste a heal on us? Maybe even to let us live long enough to take us onto point 2.

2) Protection
This does not mean watch us non-stop, this means that if you see our health going down, maybe think about looking to see what is doing that damage and consider trying to remove it. However, this often leads to problems with point 3.

3) Over-eagerness to 'protect'
All too often I have been under attack, and got off a mez/root on whatever is chewing on my pyjamas. I am down to half hp, turn to get out of danger only to have 3 people run at the disabled attacker, who then precedes to thank them for releasing them and goes about finishing the job, leaving me inspecting the worms. At which point the all to often situation of point 4 comes into play.

4) Rezzing in battle
I know full well that in a lot of cases there is far too much going on to rez a downed comrade, but in the times where the battle is almost won or yet to fully kick off, there is enough time to take a few seconds for a rez to get us back into action. A low hp sorc will not last a nano-second up front in battle (not that its different having full hp) but by having us alive we can take a more defensive position than usual, concentrating on protecting healers/casters and demezzing. To give an example, I was in a group with 3 pallys and 2 clerics, with no frantic battle taking place, only to be left on the floor for the duration. There was plenty of time to rez me before the hib offensive, and when it happened, half the group typed /g demezz pls oblivious to the fact that a dead sorc has little capability to demezz.

5) Blame it on the sorc
Another recent trend I seem to have unfortunately encountered is the belief that everything that goes wrong in a fight is the sorcs fault. Example; In a 2fg vs 2fg battle I mezzed approx 1fg of the enemy (pretty good considering they did the sensible thing and spread), then went to retreat to a defensive position. The remaining enemy took me down straight away as I would expect them to do. Despite the fact I was killed I was at least satisfied that I had done my initial job. I hoped for the all too rare battle rez and watched things unfold. What happened was that a combination of purge and dumb mez breaking led to the wipeout of the alb groups. One /rel later and ready to return to battle, group chat is filled with 'ffs mez them' and 'why the hell didnt you do any mezzing?', I even got pm's from one idiot telling me that a sorc is supposed to mez so why not try that next time. I would like to know why enemy realm abilities and AoE attacks are all my fault.

Ok, so I'm done ranting for now. I know that this problem can be solved with guild groups or regular RvR companions, but my guild is not yet of the size and experience to field a group, and as for getting a regular group amongst the albion cliques? Well don't even get me started on that.

 

[Apathy]

I get the feeling that your post stems from a few bad experiences. The solution is to not group with those people again.

Or it might just be that you suck.

a.
*

 

[Jiggs]

i let the sorcerer get on with it, never complain if they dont get the mezz off: so long as they give it their best try, its all you can hope for.

always try and get the sorc rezzed first, even mid battle, if he has mcl up he has enough to get off one last mezz or root or debuff, which can often turn the tide.

only person who should be near a sorc is a slam tank imo

 

[old.Tzeentch]

nah
virtually every single alb encounter, you have half of them doing bad mezz breaks.

 

[Simius]

I would like to think that it was only a few occasions, but it seems to happen far too likely, except for maybe 5) that was only once or twice (and I refuse to group with those people again). But all the others are far too commonplace and I'm pretty sure any sorc without a regular rvr group has had the same things happen to them.

Maybe I do suck? Who knows, I know I'm not the best sorcerer on the server but I try bloody hard and there's only so much you can do eating the dirt/snow.

And I do have to say, Jiggs, you have been one of the few rezzers I have grouped with that I will happily recommended to any sorcerer.

 

[Apathy]

How to stay alive...

1) NEVER DRIVE.

2) Don't /stick all the time.

3) Try and stay at the back of the group.

4) Amnesia is your friend.

5) Don't QC cast your first mezz. Save QC for in the battle and saving your ass.

6) Carry those little end regen orbs that you buy using bounty points for when you are sprinting out of range to /face and root or mezz. (Wish I'd had one tonight...damn you, Etha!)

7) Shove your pet onto the nearest bard, druid, healer or general caster you see. Debuff and DoT them if you have time.

8) If damaged, use lifetap on enemy pets if these pets are already engaged. Two birds with one stone.

9) If an enemy caster gets too close to you and begins casting, HIT IT WITH YOUR STICK AND THEN RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

10) Something close to you and ready to die? But so are you? QC a lifetap or use a staff charge to finish them off.

I dunno...these few things work for me. A half decent group and me being careful means I stay alive long enough to get RPs.

Experience is born of frustration. Put up with it or start a new char to play in RvR.

The pain of playing a sorcerer is nothing compared to the joy you feel when a battle is won because of you. Last night, my group of five took on 1fg Mids and won because of my mezzing. It was like an orgasm for my eyes.

a.
*

 

[Simius]

1) NEVER DRIVE.

Done and done, in fact 99% of the time I flatly refuse unless leading a group who REALLY dont know where they're going

2) Don't /stick all the time.

I learnt this one pretty early on and I have to say one of the best bits of advise anyone can give anyone else, especially a sorc.

3) Try and stay at the back of the group.

Luckily my friendly neighbourhood lag monster leaves me little choice on this one.

4) Amnesia is your friend.

Hmmm, 2300 range

5) Don't QC cast your first mezz. Save QC for in the battle and saving your ass.

Yep, if you quickcast without anything attacking you its a waste imho, after all, even half length mez wont beat an insta.

6) Carry those little end regen orbs that you buy using bounty points for when you are sprinting out of range to /face and root or mezz. (Wish I'd had one tonight...damn you, Etha!)

Now this one I had forgotten about (/rushes to Cam to stock up)

7) Shove your pet onto the nearest bard, druid, healer or general caster you see. Debuff and DoT them if you have time.

That's what pets are there for, and it gets the pet away from me, removing one big flashing neon light saying 'KILL ME', which is always handy.

8) If damaged, use lifetap on enemy pets if these pets are already engaged. Two birds with one stone.

Gotta love those green con wolves.

9) If an enemy caster gets too close to you and begins casting, HIT IT WITH YOUR STICK AND THEN RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

Tried this... always seem to end up on the receiving end of a 'blinding flash of light' for some reason :/

10) Something close to you and ready to die? But so are you? QC a lifetap or use a staff charge to finish them off.

Yep

Experience is born of frustration. Put up with it or start a new char to play in RvR.

Not denying this, and of the million deaths I've died, each time I learn something new. I just wish I could learn to enjoy a rez in battle or a few heals now and again.

It was like an orgasm for my eyes.

ROFL, now that is a phrase I have to use more often.

 

[Loth]

Ignore them, occasionally I get people (usually blue-con tanks hehe) screaming 'Mezz!!!!111' at me but generally this doesn't happen.

As someone said earlier, just don't group with the plebs next time.

If people are breaking mezzes foolishly and then blaming it on the Sorc, there's something wrong with that group

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

No matter how much I would love to demezz an entire alb team...
I'm normally dead before I can do that...
Unlike Apathy, I'monly a semi-god, so I run around in circles, waiting for some cheap ass assasin to gank me.
Normally I do get a mezz off, I specially like playing vs mids, cause hibs have this no skill, I win button named group purge....
VS mids us poor gimped Albs have some chance
Regards, Glottis

 

[Eof]

Sorcs

Always been impressed with your mezzing skills. Always want to group with you if space cos you rock and so does your guild. Most important of all though is that you have always been polite and friendly in groups.

Hope things improve, Simius.


_________________________
Eoforwic Sanguis 50 Mercenary
Covenant of Zak

 

[Apathy]

Against Hibs, it's sometimes best to root/debuff and then use single target mezzes on important targets.

Anyway, I am moving to Odin's permanently I think.

a.
*

 

[Ambulance]

Not denying this, and of the million deaths I've died, each time I learn something new. I just wish I could learn to enjoy a rez in battle or a few heals now and again.

Dont worry with 4 sec cast time coming up on all rezzes, you should experience a little more mid battle rezzing. As a cleric i still feel guilty if i dont use my best 12 sec rezz.

Also, where the hell is your shield tank in all this ? explain to your group you want a tank to guard you when you join them, most tanks who know what the hell they are doing,will be happy to do this and not moan " oh but i want to gank em" etc etc, ffs the first place a enemy will go to is our casters who are stood waving thier arms and sticks around. so stay with the casters and you will get your fare share of aggro.

Also my cleric is always AF on a caster at the back of a group, as if im a little slow to break off when we get inc, i can atleast rely on a caster to stop and not go charging into the enemy. if you are with the casters at the back,you can stun any enemys who get missed in the AOE mezz/root and give the casters a little time to deal with it. If the tanks have ran off and the stun doesnt land then spam heal the Sorc, till either the enemy comes for you,( we have nearly double the HP a caster has so dont worry) or the tanks have dealt with the enemy casters/mezzers and come back to help out.

All of Albion is moaning we do not have enough good CC and then when we get sorcerers who finally take the plunge into RvR,we wine and moan and treat them like shit.

CC will win the battle for you, love your casters and they will win the battle for you.


Ambulance <First Cohort>

 

[old.Wildfire]

I would disagree - but then I usually do.

You say not to drive - how else will you EVER get the first mezz in? You say not to use /stick - I say to use /follow instead but that running around controlling yourself isn't going to help the group at all. You'll only get yourself out of position at a bad moment, or even lost. If you're allergic to sticking, drive.

I have to say that yours seems a very pessimistic post. You're taking your class from having a worse chance (than a bard/healer) of getting the first mezz in, to having even less, by saying not to quickcast your mezz, to stay at the back and not to drive.

6) and 7) are good points but 8)? why not just lifetap an enemy caster?

9) is more intelligent than most alb casters manage, but in all honesty the best plan is to hit him and keep hitting him. You'll never get out of range (without SOS) of his nukes before his casting timer wears off, so keep bashing and hope a slam tank notices you.

 

[Apathy]

Most pets are put onto clerics/casters. I have lost count of the number of times a cleric has said after a battle "Couldn't heal because I had a pet on me. Sorry!".

Like I said, two birds with one stone. In fact...ALL BIRDS WITH ONE STONE! You heal yourself, kill something and free up your realmmate.

Whack and run...why? Because someone using F8 to find target will no doubt end up on the caster soon enough and you'll be out of range. I've yet to meet a PBer who stops casting PB to single target nuke.

Driving will get you mezzed first. Remember we're up against instants. I know that if I was a healer/bard and I saw a sorcerer charging towards me, I'd use an instant on it.

Staying behind a bit will allow you a few more seconds to choose your target carefully, or use amnesia to lock down and annoy a caster/bard. I've used amnesia MANY times to stop someone and they're not able to get to me at all.

QCing your mezz and hope you get the first mezz simply won't help you win. Judicious use of a sorcerers abilities will. Bearing in mind that Hibs have GP and most people will have Purge, the first mezz is less and less important. In fact, if I was a tank, I'd WANT to get mezzed so I could purge and run around for a minute as free as I like.

Don't worry. You only disagree because you don't know any better.

a.
*

 

[Jiggs]

i'd like to make some comments but i really dont want to say anything where hibs/mids can read

just say:

only way for a caster to play is offensively...

bards and healers got armour but sorc dont: you got to defend yourself...

 

[Simius]

My original post wasn't about getting the first mez in or even comparing albion's cc to the other realms. What I was trying to say was that if a sorc knew they were going to be protected/rezzed then a suicide run to get the first mezz in would be 'acceptable', but the whole point is that we in general aren't. It's satisfying to win the fight for your group despite dying the first few times, but after a hundred battles spent lying in the dirt listening to how many rp's everyone else got it gets to the stage where you'd rather lose a few more encounters just for the chance to actually live through things for a change.

You say why not just lifetap an enemy caster? Well if we're in range to lifetap them, they're in range to one-shot us. If things are frantic then they're the first targets I go for, but it's nice to have a handy source of health delivered safely to your door by the pets.

This may sound counter-productive to the overall albion war efforts, and yeah, i suppose it is, but refer to the title of the thread. We are not here solely to be everyone's mezz bots, we want some fun too.

 

[Loth]

We are not here solely to be everyone's mezz bots, we want some fun too.

Which is why I have respecced 48Body 24Mind and I'm having a blast!

And yes, the 'gimp' 24 AoE Mez works just fine . . . .rather than trying to land 'the perfect mez' I find myself dropping smaller mezzes at opportune moments.

A Body Sorc and a Mind Sorc in the same group is pretty awesome, especially when guarded by tanks.

 

[Wou]

Let me solve some of your problems, becouse some points are not valid.

To survive in RvR it is a mix of a lot things, but there are 4 things that help you to survive more: resists, hp, experience and skill.

> Resists: This is the most inportend one and helps a lot to survive. Try to get most at 18+ and avoidence of magic.
Example: A and B both have 1000 hp, B has 50% resist, C nukes do 100 damage.
So A dies in 10 nukes: 1000/100 = 10 ,
B dies in 20 nukes: 1000/(100 - 50 %) = 20

So you are a lot harder to kill if you have a lot resists.

> hp: a bit harder to kill

> experience & skill : that will come when you play.
Some tips:
* use terain: you can cast and target throug trees, but they don't see you standing behind it
* stand on walls when defending mg's ( exept in odin's, stand there on the first part of the stairs: tanks still have trubble to get to you, and assasince can't get away when the attack)

Your points:

1) heal: most clerics I know will heal you when you are in danger, BUT they start healing when you take damage, so if you have low resists you are dead before the heal arrives at you. With good resists the heal would have arrived.

2 & 3) protection: It is very hard to keep up with someone you protect becouse of lag, have to help someone else..
So protect yourself: if someone is coming for you start to run in circles around your group: the healer has time to heal you, casters can nuke him. And he will look for an other target when he can't get you, so then you turn and start to nuke.
Tip: if they are allready on you run straigth throug them, most times there /stick will fumble and run after you but out of melee range.
Tip 2: like Apaty said buy end regen orbs, or buy long wind I ( same as 1/4 end extra, alway's on).

4) rezzing: Sadly most clerics are buzzy healing, and a rez cost a lot for them. And most palla's / frairs become bloodlust when they see hibs/mids. Get used to it, and try to group with guild/alliance people, they will rez you more likely. Lucky there a few rezzers out there who battlerez Btw alway's say thank you, even in battle, they ll remember you as a polite guy next time you are in the grass...

5) Let me gess: All 40 - 50 and below rr3? Same kind that yells random orders at mg stand-offs and blame others for there own stupid moves.

Just ignore it, and find better people to group with

( Not that I have no respect for people below rr3, but it sometimes pisses me off when they say and yell the most stupid crap, see and learn first. )

 

[Simius]

Can't disagree with the first lot of tactics, they are things I'm trying to fully integrate into my gameplay. However...

1) heal: most clerics I know will heal you when you are in danger, BUT they start healing when you take damage, so if you have low resists you are dead before the heal arrives at you. With good resists the heal would have arrived.

My resists are pretty much as high as I can get within a reasonable at the moment, so that's not the problem.

2 & 3) protection: It is very hard to keep up with someone you protect becouse of lag, have to help someone else..
So protect yourself: if someone is coming for you start to run in circles around your group: the healer has time to heal you, casters can nuke him. And he will look for an other target when he can't get you, so then you turn and start to nuke.
Tip: if they are allready on you run straigth throug them, most times there /stick will fumble and run after you but out of melee range.
Tip 2: like Apaty said buy end regen orbs, or buy long wind I ( same as 1/4 end extra, alway's on).

I would like to think that most groups have the intelligence to realise that I'm simply trying to keep myself alive when I do these things (which I do), but I just seem to get accused of not mezzing on purpose, or just having my saving mez/root broken without a single thought to my safety.

4) rezzing: Sadly most clerics are buzzy healing, and a rez cost a lot for them. And most palla's / frairs become bloodlust when they see hibs/mids. Get used to it, and try to group with guild/alliance people, they will rez you more likely. Lucky there a few rezzers out there who battlerez Btw alway's say thank you, even in battle, they ll remember you as a polite guy next time you are in the grass...

When clerics are busy healing I have absolutely no problem with that, in fact I'd prefer it if I stayed dead and the group lived rather than risk a wipeout just to rez my sorry ass. It's at times when there is nothing really going on and the battle is either won or yet to start that it really bugs me, and this happens 90% of the time. It's the pally in my group standing around doing nothing that is usually the problem. With mcl and a lifetap/heal I'm back in action and even rezz sick I can demezz and land essential mezzes. I thank everyone who ever rezzes me, and like to think of myself as a friendly player. See Eoforwic's post on this thread to see it's not just what I think of myself. However this politeness seems to translate into people thinking they can forget about helping and I won't really mind.

My guild is just about getting to the stage where we can field a full strength well balanced RvR group, and I have absolutely no qualms about them. They listen, learn and a bunch of fantastic people. Hell, why I like the guild I guess But it's a little way before we can field an everyday RvR group, and until then it seems i have to put up with being disposable

5) Let me gess: All 40 - 50 and below rr3? Same kind that yells random orders at mg stand-offs and blame others for there own stupid moves.

Nope, in fact the main offender was considerably higher than RR3.

Anyway, time to head home and put all this theory into practice and see if anyone has taken notice of this post and rezzes me tonight

 

[Apathy]

re : battle rezzes.

Make friends with as many paladins as you can. You must have made SOME friends in levels 1 to 50. If a paladin runs past, he's almost certain to rez you if he knows you. Same goes for friars.

When I get a battle rez, the first thing I do is use MCL and then mezz/root whatever I see near me and start lifetapping enemies that are already under attack. If you go for that lone tank who is wandering around, chances are it will come running straight for you...

Remember; every time a sorcerer lives, an angel gets its wings.

a.
*

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion


Driving will get you mezzed first. Remember we're up against instants. I know that if I was a healer/bard and I saw a sorcerer charging towards me, I'd use an instant on it.

None of the LA bards use instants offensively against albs.

Use your QC, I always throw an AE lull halfway through my cast, and if you didn't QC, your group wont last more than 15seconds against mine.

If I saw a sorc running to me, I'd single lul him or dd him.

Single instant mezz I use on assassins or someone who gets too close to me.

 

[Flimgoblin]

isn't lull instant-amnesia?

oh wait - there's an instant it apparently stops quickcast.... or so I've heard.. can't confirm till /duel

 

[Simius]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
Remember; every time a sorcerer lives, an angel gets its wings.
[/B]

LOL, poor angels.

 

[Spyf]

Slambots

I was once in a grp with a pally <Gwalmar> and that awesome dude had stick on my the entire night and I died once that night and that was NOT due to weak enemy's but because Gwalmar took allmost every hit against me and when a enemy got to close he just slammed and i was free to make another mezz on either hibs or mids we meet that evening/night.
I would like you tanks outthere with slam to think about that if you guys think that casters wins battle's for us <albs> then maybe you should stay at your ''mezzer/healer whatever'' is the guy who win the battle for you and NOT just rush forward and use the slam a long way from the guy who need that awesome protection that the slam is.

Just a thought

'edit' This dosnt mean that all other I have grouped with suck but this night I remember because it went for several hours and thats NOT a normal experience for a sorcerer.

 

[old.Wildfire]

tzee speaks truth

 

[feldeshadowbane]

As to 1 and 4 I can only say you've been grouping with the wrong clerics

 

[Qte Eth]

qc is ur biggest friend -id say use qc mes in 100% cases when qc is up .will help u a lot