some sensible changes needed to be made

[ilaya]

yeah, even tho its me, sometimes i speak some sense yeah so read following:

starter guilds:

should be given their own unique emblem they can wear with pride when they lvl 20 or 400 craftskill

the xp bonus from merit points should be turned on whenever the guild has enough merit points to sustain it

should also be allowed (on classic on classic servers only) to claim a tower (not keep) if a starter guild char is GL of a grp, grp agrees, AND 70% of the top 10 levelled peeps also agree in guild

classic servers:

bp costs for maintenance of towers and keep needs to be reduced as its a new server and guilds havent had a change to stockpile bp's

for same reason, repair costs need to be reduced as peeps havent had chance to level crafters.

general rvr:

bridges should be razeable

/assist command should be removed entirely in rvr zones to promote skill and not just 2 button mashing (but kept for pve zones)



gonna get flamed for 1 of those but rest are reasonable changes i reckon, what u guys think?

 

[Grund]

/assist command should be removed entirely in rvr zones to promote skill and not just 2 button mashing (but kept for pve zones)

i dont know why everyone want to remove this command it has been said many times, but ill say it one more time, it wont change anything for setgrps, guildgrps, and high rr/experienced pugs with voice comms, and most nerfed/handicapped will be casual players who want so much to remove assist
my 5 cents

 

[Ballard]

/assist command should be removed entirely in rvr zones to promote skill and not just 2 button mashing (but kept for pve zones)

Most decent players dont use it that much. Somtimes it can be handy especially in the zerg, but for most RvR you are better actually paying attention to the screen and watching who you should be nuking / hitting.

 

[Cruhar]

for same reason, repair costs need to be reduced as peeps havent had chance to level crafters.

thats a bad excuse... I was LGM AC about 2 weeks after opening the server

same with the BPs.... Thats the whole fun of a new server, not everyone can repair and not all towers/keep are level10

And starter-guilds claiming towers?! your better of making a few friends and start your own guild for the claiming.... and that part about the top10 levels in the guild should also agree.. it just wont work, besides I think its a bad idea...

The point with starter guilds isnt to have the same benefits as player-controlled guilds...

Actually I think everything you suggested are pretty stupid... Maybe except for the razed brigdes, but then again... who use the bridge anyway, since its just a bottleneck... everyone with some idea what they are doing runs around, unless they plan to farm people at the bridge...

in my oppninion

 

[old.Whoodoo]

starter guilds:

should be given their own unique emblem they can wear with pride when they lvl 20 or 400 craftskill

Why not, sounds fair.

the xp bonus from merit points should be turned on whenever the guild has enough merit points to sustain it

should also be allowed (on classic on classic servers only) to claim a tower (not keep) if a starter guild char is GL of a grp, grp agrees, AND 70% of the top 10 levelled peeps also agree in guild

Cant you see this is open to abuse, guilds need a command structure to operate things like this, else the entire guild is left at the mercy of 1-2 players who purely level toons to mess it up, sorry, theres too many morons in game who wouldtake advantage.

classic servers:

bp costs for maintenance of towers and keep needs to be reduced as its a new server and guilds havent had a change to stockpile bp's

for same reason, repair costs need to be reduced as peeps havent had chance to level crafters.

Agreed on the first, not on the second, plenty of LGMs on thios servers and a lot of cash floating about.

general rvr:

bridges should be razeable

Sorry, how does that help rvr?

/assist command should be removed entirely in rvr zones to promote skill and not just 2 button mashing (but kept for pve zones)

Really old topic, nice to see you know youll get flamed for this one, but I do agree to some extent.

 

[Himse]

lel. ok!

Assist isnt just button mashing, if you use 2 buttons when you assist then you sir need to gain some.. uff skill :<

its all about teamwork mates! I believe you have died too many times to good assist groups so you cry :<

 

[ilaya]

The point with starter guilds isnt to have the same benefits as player-controlled guilds..

thats pretty much what they should have, but on a guild magority decision when they past a certain level. if its abuse.. then thats coz of x-realming, not the fault if new peeps joining game.

as for bridge razing.. maybes levels of razing.. top tier, middle tier.. but bridge remains intact.

the bottlenecks (if peeps are silly enough to use em) should be layered, coz they can also be used to launch attacks in same way as taking a tower.. but even harder to shut down if well defended. cant raze a bridge with trebs on it. and its not a tower.. so why the hell not?

makes a mockery of taking a tower at keeps with a bridge nearby.


another point here.. yes there are a lot of LGM's on glastonbury.. but how many are non macroed? who has the time? who has the money?
Mr Average aint LGM yet coz of play time restrictions.. should the casual gamer suffer? meant to be bringing peeps to game not saying.. u need cash and must craft and get to lvl 50 at same time.

maybes repairs costs scaled on how many LGM's on realm able to repair.. open to abuse again? who is gonna level a crafter to LGM just to increase repairs on another realm? some maybes.. sad bastards.. but should work

 

[Ryuno]

Razebale bridges would be cool. And I think it should be completely razable!

 

[Vladamir]

Razebale bridges would be cool. And I think it should be completely razable!

Then make the inhabitants of the bridge fall to their death?

 

[UndyingAngel]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Vladamir again. :<

 

[Flimgoblin]

starter guilds are meant to be there so you have someone to talk to on starting, not to replace a proper guild. If you want gbp to spend or merit points to spend - go make a real guild.

 

[Svartmetall]

lel. ok!

Assist isnt just button mashing, if you use 2 buttons when you assist then you sir need to gain some.. uff skill :<

its all about teamwork mates! I believe you have died too many times to good assist groups so you cry :<

When you get instakilled by 4 -different- casters all hitting you simultaneously less than two seconds after you stick your head out of a tower...it's well over the top. /assist caster instadeath at max range is flat out silly, I've been saying for ages that the /assist command needs to go for pretty much this very reason (and caster damage seriously needs to scale down with cast time, just like melee damage, but that's another issue entirely).

 

[Himse]

When you get instakilled by 4 -different- casters all hitting you simultaneously less than two seconds after you stick your head out of a tower...it's well over the top. /assist caster instadeath at max range is flat out silly, I've been saying for ages that the /assist command needs to go for pretty much this very reason (and caster damage seriously needs to scale down with cast time, just like melee damage, but that's another issue entirely).

Generally you dont get 4 casters assisting, if you do, i know yes its overkill, its generally why you have DI. Generally i have seen split assist groups, but good assists make good rps. Any tank should be able to kill a caster, but if ofc he has the range on you he is going to win. You can't say "oh i dont like assist because a caster or two killed me at range" its what they were designed to do, they can say "oh remove assist coz a tank killed me in melee range" utter stupidty.


Casters are designed to kill from range, with high dmg, but they got sod all hp's etc. I think its pretty balanced, you just need some good healers in the group and your fine.

 

[fettoken]

lel. ok!

Assist isnt just button mashing, if you use 2 buttons when you assist then you sir need to gain some.. uff skill :<

its all about teamwork mates! I believe you have died too many times to good assist groups so you cry :<

If youre a hib, you actually use 4 buttons.Assist> Stun > Debuff > DD DD DD DD

 

[Thadius]

Well 1 button as a shee, thats cone!

 

[Malcolm]

yeah, even tho its me, sometimes i speak some sense yeah so read following:

starter guilds:

should be given their own unique emblem they can wear with pride when they lvl 20 or 400 craftskill

the xp bonus from merit points should be turned on whenever the guild has enough merit points to sustain it

should also be allowed (on classic on classic servers only) to claim a tower (not keep) if a starter guild char is GL of a grp, grp agrees, AND 70% of the top 10 levelled peeps also agree in guild

Not sure about that, but starter guild members should be able to flag themselves as Looking For Guild as being in, for example, in Clan Cotswold is better than being guildless and vainly hoping that someone sees your LFGuild flag.

 

[Shike]

yea, those suggestions are deffo hard pressing urgent matters that immediately need full attention.

Especially the emblem for starterguilds, excellent idea.

ilaya, send it feedback here:

http://www.camelotherald.com/feedback.php

and see if your important questions perhaps even make it to the Grab Bag? You never know!













on a more serious note.. get rid of the effing bridges fgs... and the effing towers aswell, one tower per keep is enuff imo. While at it, shrink all the zones with 20% or so. Put 10s cooldown on surface/dive in water and also make the chatwindow resizable with a controlwindow with resize % bars or something with cooldown on 1% per s. Then move on to make ML9pets usable only in PvEzones and fix the waterbug... then fix the balancestuff in classes and voila, DAoC would rock again

 

[Belomar]

Yay, Ilaya complaining yet again about /assist. Only skilless people would whine about that.

 

[Asq]

on a more serious note.. get rid of the effing bridges fgs... and the effing towers aswell, one tower per keep is enuff imo. While at it, shrink all the zones with 20% or so. Put 10s cooldown on surface/dive in water and also make the chatwindow resizable with a controlwindow with resize % bars or something with cooldown on 1% per s. Then move on to make ML9pets usable only in PvEzones and fix the waterbug... then fix the balancestuff in classes and voila, DAoC would rock again

Ow would it be so simple

 

[Tinu]

Yay, Ilaya complaining yet again about /assist. Only skilless people would whine about that.

Good one!

 

[Shike]

Ow would it be so simple

actually, yes It would be that simple.

Another change I would like to see is heavy RPpenalties when you outnumber the enemy and do a kill, you have the odds on your side totally and should be rewarded thereafter. I dont mind the RPincrease we got but I dont like what it did to RvR since it scales very poorly and doesnt take a fights difficulty into the calculations at all which it should do.

Meaning, FG or 8 inviduals kill a soloer = 5%RP of the pool per toon. (around 100rps)
4man or 4 ind. group kill a soloer = 10%RP of the pool per toon. (around 200rps)
Duo or 2ind. kill a soloer = 20%RP of the pool per toon. (around 400rps)
Solo kill solo = full RP per the set rules we have atm. (around 2000rps)

Duo or 2 guys are actively fighting 2 others gives full RPs etc, just make it scale numberwise so that the more you have with u vs someone, the less you get, and alot less. It might seem drastic but seriosly, soloing etc is really really hard these days and the trend today is: Play like an asshat and you actually get rewarded for it, add, leech and you can ding RRs quite fast, which I believe is very wrong. Its far too easy which may be good for some people but it also drives away people who truly enjoy RvR as challenging PvP aswell. Ultimately, overall, the quality of RvR is what suffers the most.

Solo kill someone from a FG = full RP with a multiplier of x1.10
Duo kill someone from a FG = full RP with a multiplier of x1.08
Trio kill someone from a FG = full RP with a multiplier of x1.06
Fourmangroup kill someone from a FG = full RP with a multiplier of x1.05
etc
etc.

FG fight FG and another FG hops into the party to "help" their realm would mean same conditions as for fourmangroup killing 2 people meaning, the first grp already engaged loose RPs, but will most likely win the fight, the adding group get a small reward for "helping" aswell and not even close to full RPs. I can see how this might cause some frustration initially and also cause some ill chosen words in conversations but give it some time and people would eventually adjust to it and show more respect for already ongoing fights. Adding on a FG fight would mean little RPs and you also ruin the reward for the group already in the fight. Now if both realms have one group adding we suddenly have full RPs again. If a third realm adds in all parties still get full RPs. If its zergfight we have numbers vs numbers and do a calculation accordingly. The more you outnumber your enemy, the less RPs you get in the end, which is how it really should work, it also helps underpopulated realms out in the end.

It promotes solo for the classes that are built to manage it (stealthers come to my mind first and foremost here ofc), it penalize stealthzergers that gank everyone they come across, it rewards people that can play well enough to kill a full group with a smaller group. It overall promotes smaller groups to run more in RVR instead of always running with the zerg or always run a FG. Which is far far more fun, less laggy, and more challenging overall.

Oil shouldnt give any RPs at all, I think the reward is enough by just using it, you kill unprotected enemys quite easy and have an easier time with defense, that reward in itself is more than enough. Farming RPs with Oil is a stupid addition and could use a change.


Ofc my suggestions are just that, suggestions, Mythic will never ever implement these changes or anything like it, since their vision of DAoC and my view of how I would like it to be arent on the same path at all, I like challenges, I like soloing with my NS, I love FGfights, if we look at what Mythic has done to DAoC the last 2 years, we see that NF brought in more zerging, more chokepoints actually, more static situations, the realmwarmap brings in even more zerging and adding, there are no real natural good zones for roaming FGs to run around and search for other groups in since there is bloody towers for ppl to hop into pretty much everywhere which is really really stupid, and NF is far too big. What has brought zerging and adding and leeching to yet another lvl is the RPincrease since it rewards twatstyleRVR.

 

[Darzil]

Currently, a soloer kills someone, gets 2000 Rps.
If an add shoots one arrow, and does 10% damage, they get 200 Rps, the 'soloer' gets 1800 Rps.

In your model, a soloer kills someone, gets 2000 Rps.
If an add shoots one arrow, and does 10% damage, they get 400 Rps, the 'soloer' gets 400 Rps.

I can see that the add whine would go crazy with that model.

Darzil

 

[Darzil]

I quite liked the system being proposed for Warhammer, closer to a points system, rather than a headcount.

After all, a person with ML10, RR10, lots of Level 10 arties is a lot harder than a ML1, RR1, with rog kit, and would be worth more 'points'.

So a fully opted group might be worth the same 'points' as 3 random groups, and thus be considered equal for realm point rewards. 'Points', rather than headcount, would be fairer.

Of course, none of that represents the game I bought, the RvR one that involves large scale battles as the endgame.

Darzil

 

[Shike]

Currently, a soloer kills someone, gets 2000 Rps.
If an add shoots one arrow, and does 10% damage, they get 200 Rps, the 'soloer' gets 1800 Rps.

In your model, a soloer kills someone, gets 2000 Rps.
If an add shoots one arrow, and does 10% damage, they get 400 Rps, the 'soloer' gets 400 Rps.

I can see that the add whine would go crazy with that model.

Darzil

Scale the adders RPs on the first model.

Meaning, 10% of 400RPs. So 40 RPs is the "helpers" reward.

 

[Shike]

I quite liked the system being proposed for Warhammer, closer to a points system, rather than a headcount.

After all, a person with ML10, RR10, lots of Level 10 arties is a lot harder than a ML1, RR1, with rog kit, and would be worth more 'points'.

So a fully opted group might be worth the same 'points' as 3 random groups, and thus be considered equal for realm point rewards. 'Points', rather than headcount, would be fairer.

Of course, none of that represents the game I bought, the RvR one that involves large scale battles as the endgame.

Darzil

Thing is, a random group today isnt rr1, ml1, with RoGs, there are alot of "random" groups with even rr11's in them. You cant beat 3FGs of "randoms" anymore so easy, it happens very very seldom and when it happens, the 3FG's are playing really really incredibly poor. 1FG "randoms" tend to die fast and easy but as soon as you put in a couple more, depending on setup, its a fair fight for a normal FG. We already have a system ingame where rr's and CL's and ML's are factored into the RPreward so that doesnt really need a change. I however agree that it all should perhaps be put into a pool and do a direct comparison pool vs pool.

Meaning, a group with 5 RR10 and 3 rr6's might come up in a hypothetic value of 100. A group with 5 rr5 and 3 rr3 might come up in 70, and thus you can probably add in around 2 rr4's to come up into the same pool, to grant a 1:1 ratio "grp" vs "grp". The higher group would suffer a heavy penalty ontop of the already existing penalty though if its a FG vs FG only fight, which makes it alittle flawed. Would need a better scale for it to work where you have poolvalue vs poolvalue instead, it is doable and would actually work quite ok. My numbers are just theoretical and im sure some mathgenius can come up with a balanced formula, I'm just after the principle really, with a rough, more descriptive value to explain what I'm after.

It doesnt prevent zergfights in any way, it doesnt prevent largescale fights at all, it ONLY penalize fights that already are fair, that are thrown off balance thanks to people adding and thus ruining a good fight. Can argue about whether it is right to "help" realmmates or not forever, we are all different and some find it fun to ruin fights with adding, some find it terribly boring to get a fight ruined. Some want their fights to be added on so they can win, thats just the way it is, all I want is that when you outnumber your enemy, you dont get the full reward from it at all, not even close to it. I hate that it is worth it for a full group of stealthers to camp a spot and kill every single soloer passing by, its scary how easy it is to make RPs these days. Its a roleplayergame in the bottom, but what Mythic have forgotten is the code of honour, morale and showing mercy. Its all just a huge gankfest right now, which in my opion at least, sucks where the one who play the most unfair, actually goes winning. Nowhere in the roleplayerworld have I ever encountered such a system. Things that tend to be rewarded in roleplayinggames is heroism, honour, wisdom and a sense of respect for pretty much everything. Nothing of this exist in DAoC and the few left who play by those "rules" are slowly quitting the game, since it has no place for them anymore, which ultimately makes it about equally worth to counterstrike, in terms of roleplaying which I originally thought it was when I bought it. The moment RPrewards came into play, the game started to go downhill since it wasnt about roleplaying a defender of the realm anymore, to get high RR is more prioritized among a majority of the players and thanks to that, the culture of full group hardcoreRVR grew up and now, it is all about the magic Arrpees which I totally so not care about in the bottom. All I want is a good old fun fight on equal terms and the only way to get this is either by soloing, or running with a group and fight other groups. Zerging is another story and tbh, usually its just casters killing off other as fast as they can before they die themselves, there is no challenge whatsoever in this playstyle nor is it balanced for most archetypes in the game.

Grand fights with epic proportions is cool, the concept is at least but, the game isnt really built for it, engine sucks and cant handle NF+zerg well and its too unbalanced with casters coming out on top clearly here. Has nothing with roleplaying to do. Standing in a keep nuking for 3 hours straight isnt roleplaying, neither is it a grand scale fight, its not a massive PvPexperience.. its just ganking, nothing else.