So I tried Frontiers...

Falcon

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After downloading the 248mb Frontiers open beta, I decided to log onto Pendragon and take a look, I ran through Ligen gates to be zoned into the new frontiers, to my shock and horror the first thing I see is that the gorge is no more, my wonderful gorge, ripe with infils and SBs to hunt down gone, instead I was greeted with a beautiful plush hilly green landscape, how nice. There's a bindstone and a port stone to port to keeps there, so I ported to Dun Crauchon to take a look from the port stone, I crashed. Okay, it's a beta so no problem, I logged back in and all was okay, quite honestly the new keeps look stunning, the lords tower looks absolutely amazing, the animations on the new seige kit look amazingly realistic. The new hookpoints for buying NPCs rock, you can choose to place a Celt Guardian, an Elven Eldritch, an Elven Ranger, a Celt Druid or a Lurikeen Nightshade, so you make your choice, decide if you want to make the purchase with gold, bounty points or guild bounty points and click buy, the NPC then tells you to interact with him, you do so and have various options, not played with them all but the Eldritch gave me a choice of assigning him to nuke, CC or poison (DoT maybe? Didn't get to see it in action) enemies. The nightshade allowed you to make him sit there and fight, poison, or roam the keep and fight, again didn't see him in action though.

I then left the keep and went for a stroll, had a look at the small towers, essentially they have one door, the tower lord is red con and the guards are blue con, they seem pretty easy to take - easier than an unclaimed level 1 keep is right now. One thing I did notice is a lack of climb points for assassins on both towers and keeps, is climb walls now useless? possibly. If it isn't though, you'll certainly need more than safe fall 3 to safely jump off keeps now, if you plan to jump off a level 10 keep, expect to need to spec 50 stealth for safe fall 5. The tower had a slightly damage door, which was pretty cool, the door was bent inwards and partly broken, the tower also had a boiling oil pot above the door, so although a small force of 2 - 4 people could easily take the keep, a single person could also likely defend against those 2 - 4 people.

So then I went for a wander again, I decided to check out the frontier dungeon. It looks pretty interesting, better than the copy and paste Treibh Cailte rip off that was Marfach, instead it's apparently a copy and paste ripoff of Krondon according to the Albs - I've never been there so can't say. Still it's not even textured yet, it was all one colour and one texture repeating itself on the floor, so it's gonna change a fair bit. Mobs in there were orange - purple con, all basically Hib player races, aggro of course, still funny to kill a shar mob as a shar (don't ask why, just think of the rawr fest), they may just be temporary mobs, no idea. Got bored, suicided.

Back to Crauchon, got a group (Yes a group, as a ranger! imagine that!), we went to the pier and decided to grab a "fast" attack boat to Mid, so off we set, a group of 8 of us on our "fast" attack boat (I'll explain my emphasis on fast in a second). We arrived at the Mid coast, jumped, swam to shore,
This area is too steep to climb!
This area is too steep to climb!
This area is too steep to climb!
Oh dear, so we swam downstream a little, only to be ganked by 2fg of Mids, and he's where the bad parts of Frontiers starts- it's impossible to establish a beachhead. The only ways to get into enemy frontiers is to own a keep there and the surrounding towers, to catch a boat, or to go via the frontier dungeons, now the problem is, you can't establish a beachhead when the so called fast attack boats don't move faster than speed 5, so groups of enemies can watch you come into the rivers at the bottleneck gap in the coastal wall where all boats arrive from, trail you down river, and obliterate you the second you get off the boat. Add to this the fact the zerg seems to have relocated from AMG to the coast, and have the backup of a level 10 keep behind them and landing on the coast becomes a real difficult problem, oh dear. This is IMO, right now Frontiers biggest flaw, and hopefully as it's still in beta has some way to go on this issue, but basically if it remains as is, Frontiers will kill RvR, no realm will be able to land on the enemy beach because they'll get zerged in the water the second they jump ship. This means everyone's going to sit at their own coast, not wanting to get farmed, making RvR stagnant. I guess the option is to take enemy keeps early in the morning and hold a beachhead through the day, but AM raids, they really really suck, we all know that. The other option is the frontier dungeon when it's joined and attached, however I can see this meaning a lot of RvR is going to happen in the frontier dungeons as it's the only real option into the enemy realm, that's okay, until we find 10fg of Albs vs 10fg Hibs or whatever bumping into each other in the middle of a god damn dungeon.

My only other real problem is there's still nothing to help underpopulated realms, on the contrary it's as bad if not worse than before, because the underpopulated realm can't breach the zerg at the beachhead and the underpopulated realm (Hibernia in a lot of cases) is going to find itself the other two realms playground (Ring any bells? <cough> emain <cough>). Hopefully this too will be rectified before live.

To sum up, if the above two problems are resolved Frontiers is going to rock no doubt about it, gank groups needn't worry - if you can find your way into frontiers you'll get plenty of action, at the same time random groups can have just as much fun seiging towers and keeps. Travel times was a problem of the previous Frontiers and has been resolved for sure, it's much easier to get into combat now. So although some problems, including major ones have been solved, some other major problems still exist, and perhaps have even been made worse. If it's made easier to establish a beachhead in the enemy realm it's going to be fast paced keep/tower seiging, lots of fun and lots of action, gank groups can cut off players as they run from keeps to towers to defend or fight other gank groups trying to prevent that happening and such. The potential is most definetely there to make DAoC hands down the best MMOG there is with this, they just need to take strong action on the coast camping problem.

Will maybe post some screenshots I have later if I get round to it.
 

Elendar

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my main hope is that it doesn't become pure seige warfare like planetside is

and the boats do indeed sound like they could cause a lot of camping and zerging leading to stagnation
 

emma

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Play on pendragon myself with my SB there, found alot of the time mids were just camping a keep which was on the beachhead. People in the water waiting for alb/hib groups to drop off and get zerged. Was fun but will be seriously tedious after a short period of time.
 

Ctuchik

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Elendar said:
my main hope is that it doesn't become pure seige warfare like planetside is


oh comon.. siege warfare in PS rox.. :) love it when theres 400 ppl around and inside one base :) (and no u acually dont lag to death) :)
 

Falcon

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emma said:
Play on pendragon myself with my SB there, found alot of the time mids were just camping a keep which was on the beachhead. People in the water waiting for alb/hib groups to drop off and get zerged. Was fun but will be seriously tedious after a short period of time.
Yeah that was the prob, Mid zerg was just camping the keep with roaming groups camping all down the coast following the boats making Mid almost impossible to make a beachhead on through anyway other than zerging into oblivion with 10fg, that's the kinda numbers you'd need to take that first keep :(

It's going to suck if you need a relic raid force every time you want to even establish a place to land in the enemy frontiers. Like I say, just hope they solve all that.
 

Sarnat

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I thought the fast attack boats were not yet implemented?

Dunno where I got that from though, couldn't find it on Herald when I tried.

But anyways, that's for sure something that will get fixed.
 

yaruar

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i can see the beachheads being a problem, although how much more than the current milegate choke points I don't know. I guess the soution would be to put in multiple points where one can enter the realm thus making it more difficult to camp the entry point, although as i said, not that much different to the milegates atm.
 

Archeon

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Sounds nice aside from the Beach-head bit. Hopfully if its that much of a problem it'll be changed.
 

Moriath

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I think the population of pendragon is hugely in favour of the mids .. i seem to remember reading it somewhere .. though i could be making it up .. so with a more even server population i guess it wont be as much of an issue.
 

Shike

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Moriath said:
I think the population of pendragon is hugely in favour of the mids .. i seem to remember reading it somewhere .. though i could be making it up .. so with a more even server population i guess it wont be as much of an issue.

I think you underestimate the masses will to zerg and camp tbh. I dunno what it is but as soon as most ppl travel in 2fg+ they tend to camp, and camp, and camp.. TOA kinda made it better too with all the wards etc :)
 

Falcon

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If I'm honest Hibs weren't any better, Animists have already learnt to hide under the piers where you get a boat, spam down shrooms and watch them obliterate people one by one as they jump into a boat.
 

Falcon

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Oh and I totally forgot the best part, the RP pool for defending and attacking keeps, this is brilliant and really gives incentive to help defend and attack keeps. It also rewards the smaller force as it adds up all RPs earnedduring the course of the battle and divides them by the numbers of victors and hands them out accordingly. So if a small force takes a keep from a large, they get more rps than if the larger force won by sheer numbers.
 

Tualatin

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isn't this already "live" ? If you kill 100 peeps with 1fg, you get more rp's /kill then when those 1fg are overrun by those 100peeps. Or do you mean something else?
 

Pogel

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Falcon said:
Oh and I totally forgot the best part, the RP pool for defending and attacking keeps, this is brilliant and really gives incentive to help defend and attack keeps. It also rewards the smaller force as it adds up all RPs earnedduring the course of the battle and divides them by the numbers of victors and hands them out accordingly. So if a small force takes a keep from a large, they get more rps than if the larger force won by sheer numbers.
That sounds excellent. If anything is going to change the focus of RvR it's that. Given that it's going to be very hard to put together a group that is opted for skirmish, keep taking and keep defense we should see a lot more variety.
 

CjkaceBM

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What happened to siege engines on boats? I thought I read that somewhere.

Easy way to stop the beach head zergs is to have big ships that are pretty slow but that come with prebuilt trebuchets, mangonels and ballista. Couple of them bombard the beach area, while the brave attackers pile in on fast attack ships and get a foothold.

I'm sure I've seen this somewhere before :D
 

Bracken

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Thanks for the write up...sounds like it could be great if the problems are ironed out :)
 

Balbor

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you failed to mention what happenes when you take a larger force, 1fg won't be able to do much in NF. I though the plan was to have a number of beach heads that people can land at.

They do need to strike a balence between the home side having its advantage (witch it realy does need) and making it easy to get forces inland to start creating those larer battles we all want to see (i said large battles not zergs).
 

Falcon

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Well the boat limit is 32, if the Albs have 80, you need to keep those 32 alive before the next 32 can pile in and try to help out.
 

Moriath

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could take your own boats i guess .. have more than 32 then if you could sync them attacking
 

Balbor

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theres a 32 limit to the number of people that can get into RvR? at any given time or is it 32 per boat with any number of boats
 

Jaem-

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what happens to rogues in frontiers? all I hear is fg-zerg like rvr
 

emma

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:mad:
Jaem- said:
what happens to rogues in frontiers? all I hear is fg-zerg like rvr
Unless your an archer or minstrel you get screwed over.

After playing my SB on pendragon for 3 days now ive decided its not worth the hassle. I can spend hours wondering around looking for other stealthers to hunt. Or stick to normal spots and get shot by archers, nuked to death by casters or totally splatted by tanks.

Vanish is bugged still. It breaks super stealth if a caster was casting a spell on you when used the ability and DoTs/Bleeds break super stealth also. Pets loose aggro when you use vanish but as soon as the ability wears out they reaggro you and you get owned.

Alot of things need fixing first, but generally i think life as an assassin will be nothing like it is now. Get used to die'ing lots.
 

Wabbit

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emma said:
:mad: Unless your an archer or minstrel you get screwed over.

After playing my SB on pendragon for 3 days now ive decided its not worth the hassle. I can spend hours wondering around looking for other stealthers to hunt. Or stick to normal spots and get shot by archers, nuked to death by casters or totally splatted by tanks.

Vanish is bugged still. It breaks super stealth if a caster was casting a spell on you when used the ability and DoTs/Bleeds break super stealth also. Pets loose aggro when you use vanish but as soon as the ability wears out they reaggro you and you get owned.

Alot of things need fixing first, but generally i think life as an assassin will be nothing like it is now. Get used to die'ing lots.

After 2 years...at last victory!
 

Jox

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emma said:
:mad: Unless your an archer or minstrel you get screwed over.

After playing my SB on pendragon for 3 days now ive decided its not worth the hassle. I can spend hours wondering around looking for other stealthers to hunt. Or stick to normal spots and get shot by archers, nuked to death by casters or totally splatted by tanks.

Vanish is bugged still. It breaks super stealth if a caster was casting a spell on you when used the ability and DoTs/Bleeds break super stealth also. Pets loose aggro when you use vanish but as soon as the ability wears out they reaggro you and you get owned.

Alot of things need fixing first, but generally i think life as an assassin will be nothing like it is now. Get used to die'ing lots.

Still beta, so do not lose your hope. At least not yet^^
 

Falcon

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Being a rogue is fine still, no problems with either my NS or my archer. It's easier to play an archer than it was before because you can avoid overpowered assassins with TS hence why half the assassins are whining, because they've lost their free rps. There was still tons to kill with my NS though, camping bridges was good and also camping towers, killing people running from keeps to towers made for real good rps as my NS. Only real nerf to assassins is the apparent lack of climb points, maybe I haven't found them yet, maybe they're not implemented, no idea either way, overall though assassins have come off okay, viper3 is the dogs wracking up around 700dmg per lifebane application on 26% body resists roughly. Apply lifebane twice in a fight with viper3 and that's 1.4k damage right there. I found even if an archer used TS3 to find me I'd still win hands down due to viper3. Overall the assassin archer thing is balanced by TS3 - archers don't have to be free rps to assassins anymore but if an archer does try it on the assassin still has every chance of wining the fight. It's a good thing overall because it means all the cry-baby re-roll assassins who lived on the fact they were playing easy mode will leave, all the good assassins can do just as well as they always did and with the assassin population being as overgrown as it is right now, that can only be a good thing.

Last night Albs had Crauchon, they'd done an AM raid for it and Frontiers is SO damn fun when you have a foothold in the enemy realm, or in this case, the enemy has a foothold in your realm, so if the whole beachhead problem is fixed then Frontiers will REALLY rock. Seiging Crauchon last night was some of the most fun RvR I've had in DAoC.
 

Skilgannon

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I've played my Thane in NF and it has been great fun! These are a few of my opinions after spending around 10 hours in the frontiers (and, yes, I was in the beachhead camp zerg :))

1. Thanes should start blowing the cobwebs from their hammers and start getting themselves ToA'd up. The blue hammers of mezzbreaking are returning. Melee chars with casted ranged nukes are gonna be the latest thing, and Thanes/Valewalkers are pretty nice, versatile toons to have. Pity Alb doesn't have a corresponding char. Maybe the Smite Cleric will see a return, or maybe Alb will get a 'Wizard in Chain' as it's new Catacombs char.

2. Archers and Mincers are nice, but the outlook doesn't seem all that rosy for the assassin, judging from the whines of the SBs. The NPC stealthers make life hazardous around keeps, and players don't arrive at the new chokepoints solo/duo. Good ones will adapt, but I wouldn't be surprised to see assassin population levels go into freefall.

3. High level keeps are gonna be rare. They take a long time to upgrade and cost far too much to repair quickly. 14 plat to repair a wall? Ain't gonna happen too much, and so Guilds will go the auto-repair option. Not much repair will be done during sieges because of the sheer cost. Level 10 keeps are very impressive, but I don't think they will be all that common unless the other Realms are very lazy.

4. Not too bothered about the beachhead camping. The whines were mainly coming from those who took the boats all the way into the docks, only to be immediately ganked. Once peeps have sussed things out, small groups will jump, dive and infiltrate the coastline (much as Special Forces do).

I am really impressed and can't wait for Euro release. If it wasn't for my Guild I would probably go back to US servers full time.
 

Jaem-

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emma said:
:mad: Unless your an archer or minstrel you get screwed over.

After playing my SB on pendragon for 3 days now ive decided its not worth the hassle. I can spend hours wondering around looking for other stealthers to hunt. Or stick to normal spots and get shot by archers, nuked to death by casters or totally splatted by tanks.

Vanish is bugged still. It breaks super stealth if a caster was casting a spell on you when used the ability and DoTs/Bleeds break super stealth also. Pets loose aggro when you use vanish but as soon as the ability wears out they reaggro you and you get owned.

Alot of things need fixing first, but generally i think life as an assassin will be nothing like it is now. Get used to die'ing lots.

So vanish doesn't randomly port you somewhere with normal stealth to just freely get away?
 

Falcon

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They changed it, it's ment to give you unbreakable stealth + speed 5 whilst stealthed for a few seconds at level 3.
 

Flimgoblin

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frontiers boats aren't in yet - I expect they'll be explodable and carry siege. They'll also allow you to avoid the beachhead ganking (tip for that - jump off the boat early ;))


The beach ganking will probably reduce a bit once people get a bit more organised - taking a keep with random people running around going "Ooh" at the pretty scenery isn't possible, you need organisation (kinda like a mini-RR) - have a couple of groups knock out a tower at a different keep distracting the enemy zerg then on your real target have 2fg take one tower, 2fg another and everyone else on the keep...

the "hill is too steep to climb" is a bit difficult to get used to at first mainly because it's not that obvioius where the too steep bits are (and you can take a step over it by accident and be stuck going down...) - lots of feedback already sent on that and I expect things will change :)

the new keeps are just superb :) boiling oil is cool, and the siege animations are just fantastic (rocks flying through the air) - the frontier itself seemed a bit bare - emain may be a golf couse but there's a whole load of grey monsters kicking around, didn't seem to have the same thing wandering the frontiers - pennines used to be the aggro hell but I hardly saw anything there - it's probably intentional mind you (gonna get kallistis map and go find some monsters - I found nogud the smasher near snowdonia border keep)

gifv time to play more!
 

Balbor

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nice to read some more possitive write ups, i'm guessing that assassins who currently make there living farming MGs and road near them will have a hard time adapting as these 'must pass' bottle necks are no more.

Some RAs are still bugged, working incorrectly and even oper powered but mythic seem to be sorting things out.

The steep slops will probably requre a bit of time for people to get use to them, failing that there will have a to a warning if you get too close to them.

I've just finished watching the movie promo for NF and it does look really nice, i think people will just need time to ajust.
 

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