Skalds

Moo

Fledgling Freddie
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Does anyone else think that it's about time this class got balanced a bit more?

I mean looking at it from a minstrel standpoint the main differences are (not taking into account RAs since thats a moot point after NF)

pros of skald over mincer :

1) more hp
2) a lot more melee dmg
3) no instruments
4) nice snare that can be quite useful
5) nice dmg add
6) some quite nice resist chants tbh

cons of skald over mincer :

1) no stun, vs 9 sec insta
2) really really really crap mezz, i mean i thought minstrel mezz was crap but this takes the piss
3) 700 range on mezz vs 1500 range on mincer mezz
4) no ablative
5) no mezz cure
6) no stealth
7) no level 50 dd (even though this dd was added to aid skalds, and thus added to mincers dd lines because they're almost identical for balance reasons - however real benefit goes to minstrels because they spec 50 inst anyway for ablative, wheras skalds do not spec 50BS because that would severly gimp their melee)
8) no chance to autotrain to get a 44 melee / 50 BS spec (can be done on a mincer since they autotrain instruments)
9) no real melee defense apart from evade 1 and some crappy parry (altho minstrel also suffers from v.low defense it is slightly better than skalds, especially if ablative is taken into account).


Basicly from playing a minstrel on excalibur to playing a skald on pvp has changed my mind a lot about skalds. Theres no doubt that generally in straight melee a skald will useually beat a minstrel depending on the player, simply because of much higher melee dmg. But if we're talking utility the skald is the biggest loser.

I'd propose two main things to augment the battlesongs line to bring it up to par with todays SC / upcoming 5 min purge / det etc

Firstly the mezz should delve at lvl 50 to ~55-60 secs and should have 1500 range. Minstrel single target mezz delves for the same as skald mezz however because of flute pulsebonus you can actually get a value of 50-60 seconds depending on the quality / level of your flute. Also since resists now are so high and purge coming in at 5 min timer and det around a 29 sec delve mezz just would not cut it at all for any real use

Secondly skald should be able to spec 44 melee / 50 BS if needed, either by allowing them the extra points to do so or by letting skalds from now on autotrain BS.

Anyone got any comments on this?
 

Asty

Fledgling Freddie
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Skalds could use some boost yes, but thanes have it a lot worse.
 

Fedaykin

Fledgling Freddie
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skalds hit like a truck with their 2h - ok its slower than minstrel but still nice for a speed class.

Their mes is INSTA - huge advantage, and their snare pisses me off sooooo much.

They don't have to use instruments and they are not on the rogue melee table unlike minstrels.

THey can use their small resist chants to effectiveness - turgon pwns at this - and my damage does basically nothign to him.

thats all solo of course

they can be replaced quite easily in my opinion within groups
 

Clipse

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Moo said:
Anyone got any comments on this?

yea, give skalds a lvl 50 DD bless and autotrain, and take away savage triple hits, and AOE stun from the game :D and inta-mezz. :p and give all realms the same speed.
 

Vindicator

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Asty said:
Skalds could use some boost yes, but thanes have it a lot worse.

Skalds hp were increased and given a lvl 50 DD. <im aware he argues the weapon spec issue involved with that>

Thanes damage was boosted on all lines and there self str/con buff was upped wasnt it ?

I know they dont make the class's uber but its love. With NF inc Thanes will find them selfs in a very nice position and skalds, well they need a lil more attention but certainly not above other class's in dferent Realms. Mid dont really need more attention atm thou ;).

Class's that need attention more so:
Champions < a mana eld does his job 100 times better>
Earth Wizards < givz utilitiez : x>
*light* Spec Chanters < wtf are they good for xD>
Armsmen- Or Alb Double spec < A lowbie Warrior in plate>
 

Calo

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theres 1 think (and im a skald) i hate alot and that is be mezzed for a whole fight cause we don't have det..give us det or give us a mezz we actually can use and won't be resisted alot :\
 

Zoia

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While some classes may need love more then skalds, that doesn't mean skalds shouldn't get anything at all.

What i would like to see is combined resist chants. 2 sets with 3 in each or at least 3 sets w/2 resists.
A little better defense. Skalds have perhaps the worst defense of all melee classes.
No, we're not just a speedclass, we're a viking class, so don't say we're support and not supposed to fight.
Minstrels are rouges, bards are seers and since skalds are vikings, i feel they should have a little better defense then what they have now.
Perhaps some kind of chant. The only real defense i have now is AP+AoF :p
That or they could take their new rr5 MCL-like ability and give us something that boosted our defense for a few sec.

Skalds are not too bad though. Give me those 2 things and i would be happy ;)
A longer mezz would be nice, but not the most important thing.
 

Jaapi

Fledgling Freddie
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Vindicator said:
*light* Spec Chanters < wtf are they good for xD>
Ouch, that hurt my feelings. :)

I also have an enchantment specced chanter and that sure doesn't have the most utility in RvR.
 

Rulke

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I'm perfectly happy with skalds solo and I definently wouldnt say we lack defence vs melee (AP, AoF, SoM, Phoebus charge, Battler, etc) and we have some nice tricks up our sleeves.
Group combat (for me) is very frustrating, I often joked PR was put in the game to rezz the groups speed bot asap after a fight. Skalds simply dont have the raw damage output of a proper tank (nor should they) or the group utility of a shield tank. Imo it makes for a very boring class, all you do is add a little extra damage to the assist train and a little extra interupt to the shaman. We don't even have a decent chant to play in a fight, most skalds keep speed on in the offchance it will help our support kite.

Lots of NF RAs affect the group (VR, AM, AotG, etc) but having another button to press every 15mins won't make the class more interesting for me, getting one of the crappiest free RR5 abilities doesnt help either.
I'll continue to solo as long as I can until mythic finally succeed in making it a totally unviable playstyle.

Moo said:
3) no instruments
Having instruments isnt all bad, there are times I'd have given my left testicle for longer speed pulse.
 

Tualatin

Fledgling Freddie
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at least on camlann, below 45 skald > mincer, and above that mincer > skald.

i think skalds can be good fun.. but since it's all lvl 50 here, with uber armour... yes a skald is way worse then a mincer. But a mincer is one of albion's better classes.. while the skald isn't that of midgard. The two classes can't really be compared.. since skald = melee dmg/ gimp tank/minor support and mincer is albs 2nd CC / minor melee / defensive class.
 

Chosen

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I don't think Skalds need to much boost, that would only make them overpowered. :)
What they could need is more deffence, like beeing able to spec shield or something. But then ofc, they need more points they can spec with.
Rulke said:
I'm perfectly happy with skalds solo and I definently wouldnt say we lack defence vs melee (AP, AoF, SoM, Phoebus charge, Battler, etc) and we have some nice tricks up our sleeves.
Yes, but this only go for the high RR skalds, remember there are people that have just started playing skalds, just imagine how hard it will get to solo RvR with them in the future(If they are gonne be a solo skald that is).
But ofc, giving high RR skalds more deffence like beeing able to spec shield and more spec points would make them overpowered, maybe ?
 

Fluid

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Chosen said:
I don't think Skalds need to much boost, that would only make them overpowered. :)
What they could need is more deffence, like beeing able to spec shield or something. But then ofc, they need more points they can spec with.

shield spec would kinda make warriors obsolete in NF
 

Moo

Fledgling Freddie
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the main thing i was getting at was the mezz

the lack of instruments makes skald mezz delve value only, and since its such a low value i think it should be increased. Even if its just increased to a value at which the delve would be the actual expected mezz time after resists and etc etc

but atm a 29 sec mezz is like 20 sec and like 5 sec on tanks.

+ minstrels say oh yeah but its insta but as a minstrel i know i much prefer to have my cast-on-the-move flute mezz which can be boosted up to like 55 sec or more with a decent flute. Also if u really need an 'insta' then just stun+mez

also when playing a skald from playing a mincer i would give my nut for some ae mezz - altho thats prolly going too far, and proly only pvp orientated (damn 3 healer pet bds!!111 :p)
 

Rulke

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Chosen said:
Yes, but this only go for the high RR skalds

Only 2 of the things I named are RAs. Come frontiers a RR11 skald will have exactly the same defence from RAs as a malmovakten, except slightly more parry. Battler charge is a nice replacement for AP, GoV AF replaces AOF and SoM and phoebus are plain overpowered.

sshot176.jpg


sshot258.jpg
 

Greenfingers

Fledgling Freddie
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First of all, Skalds can EASILY take down a Minstrel if he is played/specced proberly!

This is how I see it.

Skalds :

Pro's:
Instant speed
Instant dmg add
instant mezz
instant snare
instant resist shouts
Parry spec line (eventhough not many Skalds spec in this line)
Pretty OK Sword/Axe styles

Con's
No stealth.
No autotrain, true ... bit unfair ... U should be able to go 44BS(20%body)/44Sword(3combo anytime with Hindered & Bleed)/24Parry(12%+base chance+stats, fortehwin!!!1) .... then Mincer's should get Shield spec or what?


Minstrels :

Pro's:
Absorb Chant (this hardly have any effect if you do well over 300dmg, which isn't an unusually dmg-output from a Skald).
Stealth, don't forget Climb Wall + Safefall.
1-Button melee style (Amethyst).
Duo ability, aka stealth zerg - With speed.
9 Sec stun... can very well be resisted when running + 20% body chant (total cap of 46%).
DD's are nice, doing about 150-350? dmg - Can be lowered with 20% body chant.
Shield wield.
Powersong.

Con's
Instruments have to be wielded to play a song, 'cast' Mezz/Poweregen/Healthregen/Speed ... which needs 3 instruments.
3s 'cast'-time on Mezz.
no Instant Mezz/Snare/Dmg Add/Resist's/Health Regen



Basicly, if a Mincer meets a Skald, the only thing that Mincer's can do is to play defensive. The Skald can play more offensive, and have ALOT more dmg-output. Depending on the Playstyle/Spec/RA's/Add's/Luck - The Skald will most likely win.
 

Rulke

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Moo said:
Also if u really need an 'insta' then just stun+mez
Yeah most mincers try and do this at some point, and it very rarely works. With body resist chant on the stun usually runs out in time for me to insta mezz them the milisecond before their mezz lands. Ofc cos of the weird way mincer mezz works it will land on me after I break the mezz but thats where ceremonial bracers come in handy.

Edit:
Greenfingers said:
Instant dmg add
Any skald who only runs DA vs mincers deserves to lose.
 

Moo

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Greenfingers said:
First of all, Skalds can EASILY take down a Minstrel if he is played/specced proberly!

This is how I see it.

Skalds :

Pro's:
Instant speed
Instant dmg add
instant mezz
instant snare
instant resist shouts
Parry spec line (eventhough not many Skalds spec in this line)
Pretty OK Sword/Axe styles

Con's
No stealth.
No autotrain, true ... bit unfair ... U should be able to go 44BS(20%body)/44Sword(3combo anytime with Hindered & Bleed)/24Parry(12%+base chance+stats, fortehwin!!!1) .... then Mincer's should get Shield spec or what?


Minstrels :

Pro's:
Absorb Chant (this hardly have any effect if you do well over 300dmg, which isn't an unusually dmg-output from a Skald).
Stealth, don't forget Climb Wall + Safefall.
1-Button melee style (Amethyst).
Duo ability, aka stealth zerg - With speed.
9 Sec stun... can very well be resisted when running + 20% body chant (total cap of 46%).
DD's are nice, doing about 150-350? dmg - Can be lowered with 20% body chant.
Shield wield.
Powersong.

Con's
Instruments have to be wielded to play a song, 'cast' Mezz/Poweregen/Healthregen/Speed ... which needs 3 instruments.
3s 'cast'-time on Mezz.
no Instant Mezz/Snare/Dmg Add/Resist's/Health Regen



Basicly, if a Mincer meets a Skald, the only thing that Mincer's can do is to play defensive. The Skald can play more offensive, and have ALOT more dmg-output. Depending on the Playstyle/Spec/RA's/Add's/Luck - The Skald will most likely win.
erm

if i meet a same rr skald on excal, i will beat him generally - so thats not the case im afraid.

altho im quite sure a highly skilled one like rulke could beat me even if he was rr2 - 99% of skalds out there are pretty shit tbh on excal.
 

Zoia

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Rulke said:
Only 2 of the things I named are RAs. Come frontiers a RR11 skald will have exactly the same defence from RAs as a malmovakten, except slightly more parry. Battler charge is a nice replacement for AP, GoV AF replaces AOF and SoM and phoebus are plain overpowered.
A lot of classes can get those artifacts and in NF we lose AP and AoF. Winged Helm has the same charge as Phoubus Harp.
Not sure if it's 50% or 75% reduction on the helm.
Don't you think it's a bit wrong that we have to use RAs and artifact charges to get some defense?

Yes, with AP2, AoF2 and Phoebus up i'm not easy to take out in melee, but that doesn't mean skalds as a class have good enough defense.
I'm not asking for 2x spec points and shield spec, maybe a self abs chant or something :)
 

Rulke

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I wouldn't say no to some extra defence, but I would far far far rather have some defence vs magic than more against melee.
 

Raven

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i would rather fight a skald than a mincer, skalds dont really hurt that much and usually run off, mincers can do a lot of damage when they want to.
 

Zoia

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Rulke said:
I wouldn't say no to some extra defence, but I would far far far rather have some defence vs magic than more against melee.
Combined resist chants:) Would be great for soloing and could help the group if it lacks high aug healer/shammy and give us something else worth playing during combat.
 

Moo

Fledgling Freddie
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i still think that to add a 50 dd 'to help skalds' when they know full well most skalds dont/wont spec 50 in BS is stupid.

i really really do think that if minstrels can autotrain instruments, skalds should be able to autotrain battlesongs. The only real reason as to why mincers could do it and skalds cant i guess is the fact that a skald without BS is not as much of a gimp to level as a minstrel without instruments.
 

Chosen

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Raven said:
i would rather fight a skald than a mincer, skalds dont really hurt that much and usually run off, mincers can do a lot of damage when they want to.
I've never met a Minstrell doing more damage than my skald, if you think minstrells do more damage then Skalds, then you have fought the "wrong" ones :p
Anyway, mostly I win over Minstrells if they aint buffed and I am unbuffed(What a bomb. :p)

Skalds only need alitte boost so we can do something else then interupt or beeing a taxi in groups.
I'm not sure if it is fixed, but our speed pulse was bugged awhile, sometimes it just stopped then some secs later it came back, it was pretty annoying specially when you tryed to run from someone. :p
I also think the pulse area for speed is to short, It was hard trying to assist and stay close to the healers so they would get speed if they had to run away from someone.
Rulke said:
Only 2 of the things I named are RAs. Come frontiers a RR11 skald will have exactly the same defence from RAs as a malmovakten, except slightly more parry. Battler charge is a nice replacement for AP, GoV AF replaces AOF and SoM and phoebus are plain overpowered.
Yes, but it is kinda sad we have to level up artifacts to get some deffence.
Rulke said:
I wouldn't say no to some extra defence, but I would far far far rather have some defence vs magic than more against melee.
I think skalds defence against magic is great, atleast solo. Not hard to tell what kind of damage type the other enemy is using, so you can just turn on the chants that is resistant to the damage type they do. + AoM aint that expensive so most could get it.
On the other hand if two diffrent types of nukers is attacking you it will get slightly harder :p
Moo said:
i still think that to add a 50 dd 'to help skalds' when they know full well most skalds dont/wont spec 50 in BS is stupid.
I agree, it was not much love for us when they added the level 50 DD, since you would miss some points to get 44 weapon and the style at level 44 is important especially for Hammer users like myself. Sledgehammer is the best style in the Hammer line if you ask me.
Don't know many skalds that did spec 50BS, not sure if Zoia tryed it for a wihile ? :p
 

harebear

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skalds are pretty fine as they are at the moment imo but maybe auto train on BS or smth would be nice so that they could get some of the specs said above.


(nice mumin timmeh! :p )
 

Zoia

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Chosen said:
Don't know many skalds that did spec 50BS, not sure if Zoia tryed it for a wihile ? :p
Haven't tried that one yet.
Think they fixed speedsong one or two patches ago.
Has a 6 sec duration and 3 sec frequency now. Iirc, it used to be 5 sec on both, like damage add still is(and that's still bugged).
Which is another thing i wish they could fix.

taken from a previous grab bag:

Q: The skald's damage add spontaneously stops pulsing from time to time... Has anyone else noticed this? or am I just cursed? =)

A: ”This is an issue that has been reported, but we have yet to be able to reproduce consistently. We can’t fix it until we can duplicate it.” (Note from Sanya – if you can make this happen on command, please spell out the step by step instructions in a bug appeal. That would help a whole lot.)
:rolleyes:

Maybe they could change the dur/freq on that too?
 

Rulke

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Dont even need more spec points, swapping my 10 parry for 10 stealth would hide me from FGs :)
 

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