silly bards+skill question

eSo

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
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how does +skill affect on
1. nurture
2. regrowth
3. music

...and is it worth investing in template?
thanks in advance.
 

Mastade

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
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Nurture increases the value on baseline buffs, but only to lvl 50(max) so with 40+10 nurture you would have maxed the value of the baseline buffs..

for regrowth its kinda the same, the higher regrowth the less difference there is on baseline heals... with 50 in regrowth, including plusses.. you will have no variance on your baseline heals.

dunno bout music, afaik there is no benefit from the plusses
 

angrysquirrel

Fledgling Freddie
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Mar 8, 2004
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358
plus nurt is a bonus, with +16 nurt my heals tend to be around the 350 hp limit instead of 250hp. +music = waste of points +nurture = waste of points

my next template drops the +16 nurt to +10 and i can live with that!
 

liloe

It's my birthday today!
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Jan 25, 2004
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here's how it goes:

Music: affects variance of your DD => worthless

Nurture: affects variance of basebuffs, till you hit 50 (if you have 50 nurture with bonus, your buffs get the *1.25 bonus iirc)

Regrowth: reduces variance on BASE heals, spec heals are not affected (not that you really have them at high enough lvl to use them effectively)

4. Firbolg is a bad bard choice :p
 

Enli

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 4, 2004
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liloe said:
4. Firbolg is a bad bard choice :p
1) nr ur other remarks, just a point 4 is stupid
2) firbolgs are fun bards !!!
3) it's skill of the person that makes the character and credit to those who do it with lesser stats :)
 

Leathas

Fledgling Freddie
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Jul 18, 2004
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409
Enli said:
1) nr ur other remarks, just a point 4 is stupid
2) firbolgs are fun bards !!!
3) it's skill of the person that makes the character and credit to those who do it with lesser stats :)

starting with -20 base dex?fun?skill?
:touch:
lets make a petition for allowing firbolgs to become elds too then.
 

Boni

Fledgling Freddie
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Leathas said:
starting with -20 base dex?fun?skill?
:touch:
lets make a petition for allowing firbolgs to become elds too then.

20 less dex is no handicap for a good bard, oh so youll cast a mezz in 2.2 seconds instead of 2.1, 20 dex looks good on paper but in reality its fuck all compared to the skills of the individual. Such anal attention to dex cap is really only relevent to classes that spam the same spell over and over again like DD mages or pbers.

The extra weaponskill from teh strenght bonus in a non primary stat like strength on a bard is excellent for soloing, pve, even defending versus an enemy tank or carrying rams. Theres your fun n skill element.
 

Leathas

Fledgling Freddie
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I have no doubt that firbolg is the best race for BATTLEbard.

2.1 sec compared to 2.2 sec?
it makes some difference when you got 150 ping on excalibur,etc.
 

Boni

Fledgling Freddie
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Leathas said:
I have no doubt that firbolg is the best race for BATTLEbard.

2.1 sec compared to 2.2 sec?
it makes some difference when you got 150 ping on excalibur,etc.

Not arguing they are the best race, just viable and not so completely gimped as some people make out, bards can use the benfit of strength listed above without being a battle bard, a good player uses all aspecs of their character.

and well, varied ping makes little differences in cast time, if anything such a small improvement in cast time would seem even less apparant once lag and ping are added on.

Bascially if you think your losing battles cause of that much cast time, well its really just down to your bards skills / ping rather than their choice of race imho.
 

solls

Fledgling Freddie
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Aug 24, 2004
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61
Music doesnt affect your dd damage, thats charisma. Its easy to tell since NF hit, because you no longer need aug acui 3. Before NF my dd would hit for 250 - 300, after nf with no aug acui (acuity ofcourse being charisma for a bard) it hits for 160 - 200dmg.

In my template I have +11 music, simply because it effects the power cost of your mess / cure mess / dd etc and decreases the chances of a resist + your mess is likely to last longer. Its basically a higher lvl spell.

If youre going to put any +skills in your template, which you should, just do + to music, You WILL notice the difference between spamming aoe mess with +11 music than without any + music skills - both power and resists wise.

Also, aswell as music skill, a tidy new RA you could spec in is Mastery Of Focus. This will increases the lvl of all your spells against resists, particularly handy for that single insta mess which is a lvl 29 spell. With mastery of focus lvl 1 that lvl 29 spell would then be lvl 32, and with mastery of focus lvl2 it would be a lvl 38 spell, etc.
 

solls

Fledgling Freddie
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liloe said:
here's how it goes:

Music: affects variance of your DD => worthless

Nurture: affects variance of basebuffs, till you hit 50 (if you have 50 nurture with bonus, your buffs get the *1.25 bonus iirc)

Regrowth: reduces variance on BASE heals, spec heals are not affected (not that you really have them at high enough lvl to use them effectively)

4. Firbolg is a bad bard choice :p

Disregard what this chappy says about music skill. It isnt worthless at all, if anything its the most important skill for a 'group bard'.
 

Boni

Fledgling Freddie
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solls said:
Music doesnt affect your dd damage, thats charisma. Its easy to tell since NF hit, because you no longer need aug acui 3. Before NF my dd would hit for 250 - 300, after nf with no aug acui (acuity ofcourse being charisma for a bard) it hits for 160 - 200dmg.

In my template I have +11 music, simply because it effects the power cost of your mess / cure mess / dd etc and decreases the chances of a resist + your mess is likely to last longer. Its basically a higher lvl spell.

If youre going to put any +skills in your template, which you should, just do + to music, You WILL notice the difference between spamming aoe mess with +11 music than without and + music skills.

Also, aswell as music skill, a tidy new RA you could spec in is Mastery Of Focus. This will increases the lvl of all your spells against resists, particularly handy for that single insta mess which is a lvl 29 spell. With mastery of focus lvl 1 that lvl 29 spell would then be lvl 32, and with mastery of focus lvl2 it would be a lvl 38 spell, etc.

Agree with you on master of focus being a nice choice, but im really not sure about that +music stuff... afaik ALL spell resist are based on spell level not total spec level, not something you can ever improve (bar mof) and afaik music does affect DD damage.

Think of it like this, your bard has a DD spell and mezz spell. If it was an eld it would spec +light for some reasons, exactly the same stuff applies to bards and +music.
 

Boni

Fledgling Freddie
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solls said:
Disregard what this chappy says about music skill. It isnt worthless at all, if anything its the most important skill for a 'group bard'.

Or disregard what you say maybe... lets get some more oppinions before we start disregarding peeps.
 

solls

Fledgling Freddie
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Elds would raise their int to do better dmg, charisma is a bards intelligence. Music just improves the spell effectiveness (power consumption, resists)

Pretty sure this is right matey :m00:
 

Boni

Fledgling Freddie
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solls said:
Elds would raise their int to do better dmg, charisma is a bards intelligence. Music just improves the spell effectiveness (power consumption, resists)

Pretty sure this is right matey :m00:

Elds would raise both their int and ther +light to do better damage. Same applies to bards, they would rasie their +charisma and +music todo better damage.

Again, ill say, music doesnt affect spell resist in the same way that + any skill doesnt affect resists, the formula for spell resists doesnt contain total spec level. its something like x+y*(targets lvl-level of spell, refer back to the bit I did in bold type.
 

solls

Fledgling Freddie
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Correct me if im wrong, but one point in music/light increases dmg by 0.5%, and one point in charisma/int also raises dmg by 0.5%. So yes, music effects damage but hardly at all in comparison to charisma
 

solls

Fledgling Freddie
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In the same respect, resists are also effected by music by 0.5% per point down to a minimum of 5%. so the lvl 43 aoe/single cast mess needs +7 at 5% to be capped, and the lvl 29 single insta mess needs + 21 to be capped.
 

Boni

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solls said:
Correct me if im wrong, but one point in music/light increases dmg by 0.5%, and one point in charisma/int also raises dmg by 0.5%. So yes, music effects damage but hardly at all in comparison to charisma

I dont know the exact amount they increase, but yes something of that order, its not a lot, but its wrong to tell people that it has no effect, it clearly could make more than 5% difference in DD strength given your figures.
 

Boni

Fledgling Freddie
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solls said:
In the same respect, resists are also effected by music by 0.5% per point down to a minimum of 5%. so the lvl 43 aoe/single cast mess needs +7 at 5% to be capped, and the lvl 29 single insta mess needs + 21 to be capped.

Nope thats wrong all wrong im afraid, a mistake many people (including myself) have made about various spells in the past. Ill refer you back to my bold type and complex and baffling use of equations..
 

solls

Fledgling Freddie
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nah, its just a 0.5% increase in the chance of the spell landing, modified to 50. and at 50 there is a 5% chance of a resist.

nerf typos !
 

Divinia

One of Freddy's beloved
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anything else than celt bards w/ augdex5, 101dexbonus and 10 castspeed is a joke.
 

solls

Fledgling Freddie
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Divinia said:
anything else than celt bards w/ augdex5, 101dexbonus and 10 castspeed is a joke.

Im reduced to 101 dex bonus, 10% cast speed and aug dex 3 atm:/ Trying purge 2 and moc one with sos2 rp etc. purge2 + moc1 is basically gp on a 15min timer.

Will probably go aug dex4 / sos2 / purge 2 etc etc after ive decided this spec is pants
 

Boni

Fledgling Freddie
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solls said:
nah, its just a 0.5% increase in the chance of the spell landing, modified to 50. and at 50 there is a 5% chance of a resist.

nerf typos !

afaik base chance is 15%, and I still think you are wrong, but even if it was modified spec level capped at 50... you still wouldnt need to cap +music if your speccing mof 2 and it worked like you think it does :)
 

Harle

Fledgling Freddie
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Ok, first of all the spec-lvl in music and +skill has nothing to do with power-cost or chance of spell landing. This is solely dependant on spell-level (modified by mastery of focus) versus level of the enemy.
+skill reduces the variance for baseline spells ( heals, base-buffs, or the typical light-DD for your average caster) - since the music DD-shout is a spec-spell i'm not sure if it reduces variance, though it should increase damage a bit ( compareable to MoM, though to a much lesser degree and not going above cap).

Having said all this, i think that Bards have such a hard time capping all the good stuff that no +skill at all is worth putting into a template ;)
 

Harle

Fledgling Freddie
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So, to back this up with some official info and numbers let me quote the grab-bag:
Q: Spell resists. Can you give me more details as to how the system works?

A: Here’s the answer, straight from the desk of the spell designer:

"Spells have a factor of (spell level / 2) added to their chance to hit. (Spell level defined as the level the spell is awarded, chance to hit defined as the chance of avoiding the "Your target resists the spell!" message.) Subtracted from the modified to-hit chance is the target's (level / 2). So a L50 caster casting a L30 spell at a L50 monster or player, they have a base chance of 85% to hit, plus 15%, minus 25% for a net chance to hit of 75%. If the chance to hit goes over 100% damage or duration is increased, and if it goes below 55%, you still have a 55% chance to hit but your damage or duration is penalized. If the chance to hit goes below 0, you cannot hit at all. Once the spell hits, damage and duration are further modified by resistances.

"In general, RvR is between opponents within 1 quanta of each other (in the frontiers for example, L45-50), and the spells cast are L40+. This results in a 2.5-5% modifier, which is somewhat lost in the noise of the bonuses from Int/Acuity, realm abilities, and modifiers from resistances. For characters using spells around L30, they will see a more significant reduction however, and this factor is part of it."
 

solls

Fledgling Freddie
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The second paragraph from the blog is basically what I said, but worded better :p

But yeah I see where you are both coming from
 

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